I'm ________ Old!

[babykeiff]

On 8/11/2025 at 12:16 AM, DiaperboyEddie12 said:

@foreverdl I do not know how as I am not into Mac computers.  The only thing I have of Apple is my Iphone.  I will never ever go back to a Andriod piece of crap.  But I am PC all the way.

Linux is not hard.  Just need a Linux  OS and install it.  Any good PC or computer shop should be able to install Linux for you.  But I do not trust Geek squad 

It is easy to install any OS like Linux etc on a PC, but it requires faith and paitence. I have Linux on most of my PCs with Windows running in a shell of linux, where Windows runs better and faster in a shell of Linux rather than on its own on a PC.

@foreverdl In relation to Apple OS in preference to Android, from most perspectives, Android always leaves Apple OS in the dust, but you may not notice that as you have gotten used to the limitations of the version of Apple OS within your IPhone - similar assumptions are made by car owners where they claim that X model is better than Y model, and when fully investigated, it is more often that the person making that claim has spent their life driving X model and have become accustomed to the failings within that maker.

I will remind you of the history and failings of Detroit, otherwise known as 'Motor City'. The two items that killed this industry was 1. the usage of a rubber gasket in the distributor cap, which kept moisture out of the distributor and ensured that the imported cars started without issue even in the damp and cold as opposed to the models made in USA. 2. Was similar to a bushing between the gear selector lever and its plate before the introduction of constant mesh and syncromesh transmissions. As a result, without the 1c bushing, gears would not perfectly align, which caused play and excess wear. 

There are two ideas within product making - 1. Sell item at reduced price and recoup profit via spare parts market OR 2- Produce quality items which outlasts competion. Concept 2 is no good for short term capital gain, and since accountants / financial consultants only calculate in a 12 month /  2 year concept, long term investment/growth is beyond their capability. 

A lot of Japenese and Chinese companies use concept #2, while most in the US/Europe use concept #1 = fast and furious, and if we are not making billions, terminate and reinvest. This has got so bad that there is a different work etmology where our parents/grand parents were in the same company from birth to retirement, and we constantly change company and offer no loyalty etc.

Most of us from the PC side are just waiting until Apple, Twitter, Facebook, Tesla etc. are in the history books similar to AOL, Compaq, Gateway and similar (ex Giants) from our history! History proves it is only a matter of time before these companies will no longer exist, where noone will miss them.

[Albert-1701]

I remember slide rules. I still have one. And how about even older -- an abacus? I still have one of those as well. My wife has a comptometer.

 

Albert

 

enemasub

 

1701-albert@proton.me

[DiaperboyEddie12]

8 hours ago, babykeiff said:

Most of us from the PC side are just waiting until Apple, Twitter, Facebook, Tesla etc. are in the history books similar to AOL, Compaq, Gateway and similar (ex Giants) from our history! History proves it is only a matter of time before these companies will no longer exist, where noone will miss them.

@babykeiff I believe that we will not get to see the demise of those companies.  Like we have with AOL or Compaq.  But I am sure our kids or grandkids will definitely see that happen.  

[babykeiff]

8 hours ago, DiaperboyEddie12 said:

@babykeiff I believe that we will not get to see the demise of those companies.  Like we have with AOL or Compaq.  But I am sure our kids or grandkids will definitely see that happen.  

Since Dec 2019/2020 (I will not mention the reason, but most here can work it out), the world is realizing both the value of their own personal time, the companies that steal it like social media sites.

In relation to Tesla etc, the economic and environmental costs of electric vehicles as compared to ICEs.

1. An electric vehicle is normally twice as heavy than its ICE equivilant which equates to parts (wheel bearings, suspension parts, drive mechanisms etc) wearing out twice as fast, which reduces the lifespan of the vehicle to instead of 15 years, to approx 7.5 years. On top of that, due to the extra weight, heavier duty tyres are required which are more expensive as the market has not grown to produce that specific tyre in bulk plus. Secondly, due to the force (weight) and torque placed on this tyre, it wears out faster than the ICE tyres.

2. Batteries have a lifespan of 5 years approx., and since the battery being part of the frame of the car, the labour involved in replacing one is normally more expensive than the market value of the car.

3. This all means that an electric car has a 5-6 year life span, which means it needs to be dismantled and recycled every 6 years as opposed to an ICE with a 15 year lifespan where one ICE life = 3 Electric cars life.

4. Due to limited supplies of specific components within battery making, there is no way a company can produce enough vehicles to be able to reduce the selling price to make the electric car roughly 1/3rd the price of the ICE equivilant - after all, that is what is needed to make an electric car equivilant to the ICE. 

5. We are all ready running out of some of the specific parts to make batteries, where recycling the used parts is so expensive, it will force the electric car price to continue to rise.

Tesla may still have sales in USA, but across Europe, is sales are limited to non-existant.

Tesla may have been the driving force to create electric cars, but similar to inovators worldwide, (KODAK for example - created B/W film, then colour film, and also polaroid and instamatic cameras) very few of their companies still exist today. KODAK died with the invention of the charged coupled device 1970, where its root is the 1947 transistor, and 1956 MOSFET. This created the digital camera we all use today, which was the demise of KODAK. However, their competiton in the film industry was FujiFilm, a company that still exists and still makes camera film, however, it is for the medical industry.) KODAK died, FujiFilm diversified and survived. Tesla is doomed, where its competition like Toyota etc - those who make hybrid and/or hydrogen cars and/or ICE's are more likely to survive.

History has told us that a business that is 100% dependent on one revenue stream will die as the world moves forward and the business does not.

@DiaperboyEddie12, I humbly disagree with your claim that these companies (Tesla, Facebook, Twitter etc) will still exist in our lifetime. 

[foreverdl]

On 8/12/2025 at 4:29 AM, babykeiff said:

It is easy to install any OS like Linux etc on a PC, but it requires faith and paitence. I have Linux on most of my PCs with Windows running in a shell of linux, where Windows runs better and faster in a shell of Linux rather than on its own on a PC.

@foreverdl In relation to Apple OS in preference to Android, from most perspectives, Android always leaves Apple OS in the dust, but you may not notice that as you have gotten used to the limitations of the version of Apple OS within your IPhone - similar assumptions are made by car owners where they claim that X model is better than Y model, and when fully investigated, it is more often that the person making that claim has spent their life driving X model and have become accustomed to the failings within that maker.

I will remind you of the history and failings of Detroit, otherwise known as 'Motor City'. The two items that killed this industry was 1. the usage of a rubber gasket in the distributor cap, which kept moisture out of the distributor and ensured that the imported cars started without issue even in the damp and cold as opposed to the models made in USA. 2. Was similar to a bushing between the gear selector lever and its plate before the introduction of constant mesh and syncromesh transmissions. As a result, without the 1c bushing, gears would not perfectly align, which caused play and excess wear. 

There are two ideas within product making - 1. Sell item at reduced price and recoup profit via spare parts market OR 2- Produce quality items which outlasts competion. Concept 2 is no good for short term capital gain, and since accountants / financial consultants only calculate in a 12 month /  2 year concept, long term investment/growth is beyond their capability. 

A lot of Japenese and Chinese companies use concept #2, while most in the US/Europe use concept #1 = fast and furious, and if we are not making billions, terminate and reinvest. This has got so bad that there is a different work etmology where our parents/grand parents were in the same company from birth to retirement, and we constantly change company and offer no loyalty etc.

Most of us from the PC side are just waiting until Apple, Twitter, Facebook, Tesla etc. are in the history books similar to AOL, Compaq, Gateway and similar (ex Giants) from our history! History proves it is only a matter of time before these companies will no longer exist, where noone will miss them.

Well windows has been a pain in my ass from way back, so when I found Apple yrs ago I have been happier with it, My only real Hate is what has happened sins Steve died, they are now catching up with all the fixes and updates etc that I hated with windows. There may never be a good computer at all in 10 yrs.. If I am a dumb jerk for sticking with Apple then so be it. They are still better even with all the constant updating thats probably due to Hackers and they used to leave Apple alone...

[babykeiff]

9 hours ago, foreverdl said:

Well windows has been a pain in my ass from way back, so when I found Apple yrs ago I have been happier with it, My only real Hate is what has happened sins Steve died, they are now catching up with all the fixes and updates etc that I hated with windows. There may never be a good computer at all in 10 yrs.. If I am a dumb jerk for sticking with Apple then so be it. They are still better even with all the constant updating thats probably due to Hackers and they used to leave Apple alone...

Apple, similar to previous insecure companies like Compaq etc., make products that are dependent on their own systems i.e. version X of the IPhone only works with version X of the IPhone charger (made by and sold only by Apple) plus version X of the IPhone head-phones (made by and sold only by Apple) etc. When a newer version is released by this company, one needs to also get the newer version of the charger, head phones etc. 

Secondly, as you stated, Apple is now updating the software so it can be functional, but from a technical perspective, Apple released a X version sold as to do X and Y function, but it didn't. Now, with all the updates, the core device can't handle the functionality.

This behaviour of advertising crap, flogging it to the flock, and then spending the next few years updating the applications so it can fulfill the original specifications is what I call deceipt and lies.

Version 1 of the IPhone could not multi-task, a critical function within a phone, yet was sold as a phone and a music player. Even the IPod locked ones music collection to a device, so when one upgraded, the end user needed to repurchase complete music collection that they 'owned' so it would play on the upgraded device.

This is the story of Apple - created by someone stealing software from his employeer, needed Microsoft financial support to keep from going bust, and now is selling pictures of items that are not really functional, but they look nice! When they eventually become functional, the device is so slow and clunky, it is better and faster to do the task manually - i.e. call in to a person instead of using an Apple 'phone' to make a call!

Eventually the people who support this type of behaviour will realize this. They realized this with Compaq and Gateway products, are seeing this with Dell devices (like their printers etc where only Dell can supply ink etc.)

None of the above is me trying to convince and/or manipulate you in abandoning Apple. Instead, I am firmly convinced that you, and many others will come to that conclusion on your own.

[foreverdl]

18 hours ago, babykeiff said:

Apple, similar to previous insecure companies like Compaq etc., make products that are dependent on their own systems i.e. version X of the IPhone only works with version X of the IPhone charger (made by and sold only by Apple) plus version X of the IPhone head-phones (made by and sold only by Apple) etc. When a newer version is released by this company, one needs to also get the newer version of the charger, head phones etc. 

Secondly, as you stated, Apple is now updating the software so it can be functional, but from a technical perspective, Apple released a X version sold as to do X and Y function, but it didn't. Now, with all the updates, the core device can't handle the functionality.

This behaviour of advertising crap, flogging it to the flock, and then spending the next few years updating the applications so it can fulfill the original specifications is what I call deceipt and lies.

Version 1 of the IPhone could not multi-task, a critical function within a phone, yet was sold as a phone and a music player. Even the IPod locked ones music collection to a device, so when one upgraded, the end user needed to repurchase complete music collection that they 'owned' so it would play on the upgraded device.

This is the story of Apple - created by someone stealing software from his employeer, needed Microsoft financial support to keep from going bust, and now is selling pictures of items that are not really functional, but they look nice! When they eventually become functional, the device is so slow and clunky, it is better and faster to do the task manually - i.e. call in to a person instead of using an Apple 'phone' to make a call!

Eventually the people who support this type of behaviour will realize this. They realized this with Compaq and Gateway products, are seeing this with Dell devices (like their printers etc where only Dell can supply ink etc.)

None of the above is me trying to convince and/or manipulate you in abandoning Apple. Instead, I am firmly convinced that you, and many others will come to that conclusion on your own.

I do hope your wrong, because I will go back to a flip phone before I ever get an Android again and if thats all thats left beside he crap Samsung, they are crap already. I may go back to the Unux long long before I ever get a windows thing.....Talk about constant updates??

[babykeiff]

On 8/15/2025 at 2:06 AM, foreverdl said:

I do hope your wrong, because I will go back to a flip phone before I ever get an Android again and if thats all thats left beside he crap Samsung, they are crap already. I may go back to the Unux long long before I ever get a windows thing.....Talk about constant updates??

@foreverdl if Apple go out of business it is not like their products will just stop working. All it means is that the one you have (and I presume it is currently able to do the simple things like make and recieve a phone call, send and recieve text messages etc) will continue to work but will not get any updates. IMHO, that is a benifit to you, since Apple will bot be sending an update that will slow down the phone etc. You may have to, in about 20 years, need to change to a newer model if you are a person that uses these 'free' apps for shopping etc, and the programmers of those apps do not make versions that are backwards compatable (i.e. run on previous versions of OS). Some of the time, you are lucky if it will run on anything but the original programmers phone's OS.

BTW, I am sure that you are aware that using these 'shopping center' supposedly benificial for the customer is them stealing your data and selling it to every advertising company in the world - after all, you gave your data to them cause you got 10% off that pack of wipes / can of beer etc.

Yes, there are a lot of gullible people in the world when it comes to apps and computers. One thing that they forget is that once the data is 'given' to a company / business via the internet, it is there forever and almost impossible to remove it.

[foreverdl]

21 hours ago, babykeiff said:

@foreverdl if Apple go out of business it is not like their products will just stop working. All it means is that the one you have (and I presume it is currently able to do the simple things like make and recieve a phone call, send and recieve text messages etc) will continue to work but will not get any updates. IMHO, that is a benifit to you, since Apple will bot be sending an update that will slow down the phone etc. You may have to, in about 20 years, need to change to a newer model if you are a person that uses these 'free' apps for shopping etc, and the programmers of those apps do not make versions that are backwards compatable (i.e. run on previous versions of OS). Some of the time, you are lucky if it will run on anything but the original programmers phone's OS.

BTW, I am sure that you are aware that using these 'shopping center' supposedly benificial for the customer is them stealing your data and selling it to every advertising company in the world - after all, you gave your data to them cause you got 10% off that pack of wipes / can of beer etc.

Yes, there are a lot of gullible people in the world when it comes to apps and computers. One thing that they forget is that once the data is 'given' to a company / business via the internet, it is there forever and almost impossible to remove it.

I never do shopping on my phone, I used to play games on it,, boy wife still plays games on hers, in the past few yrs all I need mine for is a phone ( I get more scam calls that I never answer) I use weather and my AQI air, and my cameras on my home. If not for these few apps I would just get a basic phone and be happy. My thing is more my computer, I have never ever liked any windows version, if I ever have time I will wipe the Toshiba with windows 10 on it and put linux on it to see how I like it, I got a free iMac with it on it and I think 🤔 I would be fine with it depending n Security...... I will never be able to afford another Mac laptop, or even a laptop period, so the one I have needs to last me....

[babykeiff]

On 8/18/2025 at 3:39 AM, foreverdl said:

I never do shopping on my phone, I used to play games on it,, boy wife still plays games on hers, in the past few yrs all I need mine for is a phone ( I get more scam calls that I never answer) I use weather and my AQI air, and my cameras on my home. If not for these few apps I would just get a basic phone and be happy. My thing is more my computer, I have never ever liked any windows version, if I ever have time I will wipe the Toshiba with windows 10 on it and put linux on it to see how I like it, I got a free iMac with it on it and I think 🤔 I would be fine with it depending n Security...... I will never be able to afford another Mac laptop, or even a laptop period, so the one I have needs to last me....

If you are looking to upgrade, have a look at the secondhand market, or the ex business machines - as those machines come without an OS and usually without a hard drive, and due to the way business' depreciate the value of items over years, you should be able to get one from your / relations employer for under $50. Hard drives are normally solid state, so are in the price range of $40-$150 depending on size and type, which would give you an upto 5 year old laptop for about $100.

Linux is highly secure, but it has a steep learning curve - but once you get your head around it, you should find it very powerful even as an OS without the added applications, but if you are replacing a Windows OS with it, please make sure that you create a bootable CD backup, so if you don't like Linux, you have a way back.

[Madaboutdiapers]

My birth date 🤪🤣

[liljim57]

I remember the dry cleaner man picking stuff up at the house; and the milkman dropping a gallon of milk at our door in the little box. 

[astrodiaper]

1 hour ago, liljim57 said:

I remember the dry cleaner man picking stuff up at the house; and the milkman dropping a gallon of milk at our door in the little box. 

I vaguely remember something like that. My paternal grandfather got his milk that way. I also seem to remember my maternal grandparents and great grandparents having a box by their doors for milk delivery. 

[liljim57]

3 hours ago, astrodiaper said:

I vaguely remember something like that. My paternal grandfather got his milk that way. I also seem to remember my maternal grandparents and great grandparents having a box by their doors for milk delivery. 

I remember the milk thing more because Dad knew the milkman. We all went to the same church. Dad would bring the milk in when he left for work before daylight. 1-2 times it was gone; they set-up and followed a guy who stole it. They told him if he needed it that bad they would see he got some. I don't remember if they did or not. Back then grown-ups didn't tell us kids much,

[tigercub59]

I'm coming in when the street lights come on, old. That included some days even in the winter.

[foreverdl]

I do remember having milk delivered to the front door when I was very young. But we had a corner market just a block up the road, a Little family owned place, and then mom would let us walk down to get candy, and we got a small paper sack of candy for 10-25 cents, I was under the age go 5th grade. It was a safe time in history for us.

[Guest]

The first computer I worked on:

And it's primary user interface:

 

https://gunkies.org/wiki/PDP-8/L

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33

[tigercub59]

The fresh vegetable and fruit man coming up and down the street.

[foreverdl]

22 hours ago, littleFeathers said:

The first computer I worked on:

And it's primary user interface:

 

https://gunkies.org/wiki/PDP-8/L

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33

Kinda reminds e of a key punch class I took back in 1977, they paid me to take a summer class after I graduated high school and was looking for work, I had no plans to do that as a job, but heck it paid me, some kind of state paid educational thing and nothing really good to take..

[PassiveRenegade]

I still have some of my childhood vhs tapes and cassette tapes. Also came across a floppy disc which are unheard of now. 

I prefer books over technology any day but I do remember everything from computers to tvs being thick huge and heavy. 

[Crinklz Kat]

Ah..... "The Good O'le Days!"   Some weren't so good.  

I remember when cable TV was a big thing, yet you still had only channels 2-13 for the most part.   And every channel being interrupted for Nixons resignation speech.

And I remember my dad had one of these - the first commercial digital watch.  You set the time using magnets!

 

On 8/28/2025 at 8:19 AM, liljim57 said:

I remember the dry cleaner man picking stuff up at the house; and the milkman dropping a gallon of milk at our door in the little box. 

We had milk delivery into the 80s! Forget when they stopped using the glass bottles and just delivered standard 1/2 gallon paper cartons. 

[Firefly 35]

On 8/13/2025 at 12:43 AM, babykeiff said:

an electric car has a 5-6 year life span

Cheaper electric cars only last that long, as battery technology improves they will probably last much longer, much like how batteries for cordless phones, power tools, etc have improved over time.

 

On 8/13/2025 at 12:43 AM, babykeiff said:

the economic and environmental costs of electric vehicles as compared to ICEs.

Manufacturing ICE engines requires a lot of specialized machinery which takes a lot of power, specialized lubricants, etc.  Not to  mention that ICE engines get about 30-40% efficiency compared to 80-90+ with electric motors.  The main economic issue with EVs is power grids don't currently have the capacity to support a large number of EVs and it would cost billions of dollars to make the necessary upgrades. 

 

Our current system of most people driving a car is unsustainable regardless of the fuel source. 

[babykeiff]

5 hours ago, Firefly 35 said:

Cheaper electric cars only last that long, as battery technology improves they will probably last much longer, much like how batteries for cordless phones, power tools, etc have improved over time.

 

Manufacturing ICE engines requires a lot of specialized machinery which takes a lot of power, specialized lubricants, etc.  Not to  mention that ICE engines get about 30-40% efficiency compared to 80-90+ with electric motors.  The main economic issue with EVs is power grids don't currently have the capacity to support a large number of EVs and it would cost billions of dollars to make the necessary upgrades. 

 

Our current system of most people driving a car is unsustainable regardless of the fuel source. 

Your 30-40% vs 80-90% is only costing the end users costs. It does not count for the amount of energy used in mining and processing materials for the batteries, the cost of tyres to support the weight, the cost of road materials needed from the excess weight of the electric vehicle... and most of all, the total waste of the materials used in the batteries as they are dumped into landfill after five years of use.

The cost of making an electric vehicle compared to making an ICE vehicle is almost equal today since ICEs have optimised their production since first introduction in 1886. Electric vehicles have yet to go through that level of optimization. However, a new electric vehicle has to be made every 5 years as compared to the world average of 12-15 years livespan of an ICE.

You are also in the 'probably they will improve' concept. Batteries are a flawed technology - i.e. they convert electrical energy to chemical energy (to charge) and vice versa to discharge. Also, the physical weight does not vary based on the level of charge, as opposed to a fuel tank that gets lighter as it empties. This all means that the electric vehicle over the charge level of the battery uses exactly the same power whether the battery is full or empty, as opposed to an ICE that gets more efficient.

You state that the main problem is charging capacity of the grid for electric vehicles. That is not the only giant problem.

Electric Vehicle Problems (not a complete list)

• Limited Range of travel, which decreases as temp. changes.
• 1-2+ hour charging time
• Huge weight of batteries = heavier tyres & suspention, and more damage to roads
• Limited life of batteries - 5 years maximum.
• Limited supply of chemicals to make batteries. - and running out due to the dumping of used batteries in landfill / sea
• Huge cost of batteries - more cost effective to replace vehicle instead of battery.- even if the battery is cheap to replace, the labour involved is almost stripping the vehicle down to nothing and then rebuilding it as the battery (plus cage)IS the main frame of the vehicle
• The source of electricity for these electric vehicles is the grid, which is primarly driven by burning carbon based fuels. As a result, due to the number of conversions from one form of energy to another to actually move the wheels of the electric vehicle, it is close to 99% waste of energy so the electric vehicle can be sold to idiots as 'green' and non polluting.

You state that as long as battery technology improves.... The first electric car was made in 1832, and this was before Karl Benz created the ICE in 1886. At that time there were no fuel stations, but since 1800-1850, the world was shifting toward electrification. The time the electric vehicle was created, and the time the ICE vehicle was created, there was more electric sources and possible charging points as compared to fuel stations. 200 years later, there are more fuel stations and ICE's as compared to electric charge points and electric cars - and the simple reason is ELECTRIC CARS in the last 200 years of development STILL DONT WORK, where ICE's do... and this was in the time before King Gillette, the souce of this disposable world! (something else for you to read)

How many centuries of progress do you want to wait for the flawed technology of a battery to work?

The improvement in battery technology is forcing more energy into a fixed area. Petrol / gasoline / diesel have already solved that problem, but the advantage these fuels as opposed to battery technology is that these fuels are STABLE.... i.e. they don't self ignite. These fuels if one drops a lighted match into a container of same, they will extinguish the match. A battery is an instable chemical reaction, that if dented, can self ignite and create a non stoppable reaction until all the chemical energy has been released. It is similar to driving a vehicle fueled by nitroglycerin. Yes it can power an ICE, but it is highly unstable and can explode from shock or vibration. A vehicle battery shaken can crack the case and also similarly react.

Most people do not realize the power and damage capacity of a battery. Even Thomas Edison made that mistake, which nearly killed him. I suggest you read about the War of the Currents, and how safe AC is as compared to DC or battery power.

IMHO, yes we should change from ICEs to another form of motion, which also includes the change from burning carbon based fuels for heat / energy. Nicolai Tesla created a way to transmit electrical energy through the air, where a reciever could be placed on each vehicle. This technology is a more advanced radio transmission system with a crystal reciever tuning into the transmission and using said energy to provide motion / heat. This was scrapped because the investor, J.P. Morgan could not see a way to charge the end user for the electricity.

Using this process, we could convert solar energy (from sites in deserts worldwide) transmit it wirelessly to the world while that desert is illuminated by sun... but that type of concept can only come to frution if the world works together and not is seperated by silly borders and capitalistic thinking - i.e. can we make money from this.

Life's goal should not be based on the acquisition of wealth. It is a fools task as -

• you can't take it with you
• it doesn't matter how rich / poor you are, your time alive is limited.
• when you die, the acquisitions you leave behind creates arguments between supposedly loved ones over who gets what.

The concept as portrayed by 'Star Trek' is that life's goal is self and others gain and improvement rather the the insane concept of the acquisition of wealth.

Consider this one - due to the way people behave, everyone is focused on building up their 'nest egg' of wealth. One can equate this to each person in the world filling a bucket with tokens of wealth. The economic flaw in this is that the more tokens of wealth a person has, the less value each token is worth. Therefore, the act of adding to your bucket is indirectly making you poorer!

A rich man is never happy as he is forced to live in a prison so nobody can take his wealth, whereas the poor person can live in the open without the costs needed to secure what he doesn't have. A poor man is happy if he gets a free meal / bed for the night, where the rich man although has everything, has no appreciation for it.