This Generation of writers

[Tfmonkey]

First and foremost I want to say I am not calling anyone a bad writer and am only speaking my 2 cents. I am not a perfect writer by no means.

 

Does anyone else in the writing world feel that stories being written just aren't on the same level as they were 10 or even 15 years ago? 

 

I feel like today's writers are writing stories that resolve around happy and nice endings and you no longer have writings with unfair, dark endings. I guess when I grew up all the stories I read were written by authors like Long Rifle who in my eyes is the king of dark abdl stories.

 

I really wish the style of writing I grew up with would some how makes it way back into existence.

[Elfy]

I think I go down the middle in terms of "good" and "bad" endings. I didn't read stories back then so I don't know how they compare but the phrase "be the change you want to see in the world" comes to mind. If you like darker endings make sure to write them!

[BoTox]

I've written some darker ending stories. One I even wrote and told the reader that if they wanted the happy ending to stop now. Then I went on to reveal some details that steered toward the darker side.

I like some dark stories but in general, I like a story to have a conclusion I'm happy with even if it is a sad or dark ending.

[Cute_Kitten]

It all depends. Given the mention of Long Rifle, I'm assuming you mean ABDL fiction in general. There have always been well written stories and their polar opposites. An ending in and of itself- whether it is classified as happy or dark/ unhappy- is not what makes a story well written or not.  As a writer, I let the ending flow from the story itself.  I've done happy endings, bittersweet endings, and angsty endings. I do love some angst, trauma, etc but personally, I prefer mine during the story, not at the end, so that's where I tend to put my dark material. 

For dark/ unpleasant endings, off the top of my head, one of my favorite stories springs to mind. Spirit of Christmas by Vearynope

[enigma_66]

I guess  I don't know exactly what a dark ending would be in this world of AB/DL..... Is it truly a  dark ending if the characters are in diapers against their will? Must they stay unhappy....

Does some dark BDSM need to be incorporated? Perspectives have most certainly changed in the last 15 years, and I'll give you that.  There are quite a few stories with anger and angst throughout not all rainbows and unicorns at the end.

Eye of the beholder my friend....

[Dr_J]

Dark and unfair endings are not my cup of tea in any of my written work. Never has been, never will be. I like to create tense/emotional moments in my work, but even the one I'm working on now, which is far more fiction than what I'm accustomed to writing, I have zero intention of making the ending "unfair" or "dark". I guess it really depends on the writer.

[mamabug]

Most work of fictions overall have happy endings. Of course there are many stories/books out there that will have emotional/intense scenes. I personally love stories like that and have even written a book with a rather bitter-sweet ending.

Most of my ABDL stories will have happy endings, because it's a different writing style. 

If you wanting those kind of endings, then write them.

 

[Personalias]

So poor writing to you means "happy ending"?

[enigma_66]

I for one wasn't criticizing. I'm just trying to understand. There is so much conflict in much of this writing it's hard to understand how "dark" it's supposed to be.... 

Just so the content is from my own brain, Wrong is Wrong shows so much conflict. Now that I've been shown half of the story is missing it's hard to show how emotionally dark it got... but as was suggested earlier write if your so unhappy with what people are churning out.

I see Personalias on here and have a fanboy moment everytime.....

[Tfmonkey]

3 hours ago, Personalias said:

So poor writing to you means "happy ending"?

I never wrote they were poor, I feel there aren't very many writers still around that write dark fiction stories revolving around Adult babies. 90% of writers on DD write stories that revolve around happy endings and there just isn't people popping out stories with dark and unhappy endings like the used too. I am not calling anyone writing poor I just feel its not always a bad idea to explore the other side where everything isn't lolly pops and unicorns.

[MinnesotaWriter]

I think I prefer bitter sweet endings myself. 

My favorite non-ABDL writer who I always thought was very good at this was John Grisham. His books always had such good endings. You knew things were going to work out, but not always in the way that the protagonist wanted.

As I reader, I do want everything to work out for the protagonist while I'm reading the story, but knowing that a writer has the possibility of not having a perfect ending adds much more suspense to the story. If you know right of the bat that everyone will live happily after, there is less tension in the moments where things aren't going right for the protagonist. 

[BabySofia]

It really I think depends on why the writer is writing. For me it's my escape to a better world, better life, or at least something different from real life. I much prefer happy endings myself, because they make me happy. I believe some change needs to have happened to the character over their journey, but I don't believe in destroying my characters I guess.

That being said there are a number of stories that I have enjoyed where the ending isn't happily ever after. Sometimes I even go back and re-read them because the journey was worth it. 

[Personalias]

8 hours ago, Tfmonkey said:

I never wrote they were poor, I feel there aren't very many writers still around that write dark fiction stories revolving around Adult babies. 90% of writers on DD write stories that revolve around happy endings and there just isn't people popping out stories with dark and unhappy endings like the used too. I am not calling anyone writing poor I just feel its not always a bad idea to explore the other side where everything isn't lolly pops and unicorns.

When I commented on that, there was a tag to this thread that said "Poor Writing".  It has since been removed.

[Tfmonkey]

1 hour ago, Personalias said:

When I commented on that, there was a tag to this thread that said "Poor Writing".  It has since been removed.

Because I clearly didn't think anyone was going to think I was calling other peoples writing poor, but I guess I was wrong. I removed it so no one else would confuse it....don't get so emotional and take this personal either this is just my opinion. 

[Cya]

Now, how about we look at it from all angles? There has been a proliferation of happy endings and genuine happy stories. Maybe this is because most writers nowadays aren't interested in writing stories that make their readers feel uncomfortable? I believe so, but it really is subjective as to what a unhappy ending is. An unhappy ending can be anything that shows the main character in a spot worse than they started off. Traditionally, getting your freedoms/freewill taken from you and demoted down to infanthood was once the typical unhappy ending. 

I can't speak for all readers, but I'm of the same mind of TFmonkey in that the majority of stories show their characters coping with things that are very hard for an average person to cope with. Personalias, you're writing "Lily" and I dare say it is one of the darker stories out right now. I feel that how she handles her situation is realistic. She's not embracing diapers and babyhood, she's merely surviving, biding her time like a prisoner. That being said, there's stories out there, by very fine writers, who show characters who had a great life and then became a baby. Said characters handle it exceptionally well and grow to love it, but that kind of goes against the grain. Yes, I think many of us would like to end up in that type of situation, but that doesn't mean that everyone would. Anyway, I don't really know what to think about said stories and sometimes I might enjoy them, they're good reads, but other times I move onto other stories that feel more grounded. Regardless of what I think znd what you personally write, I have great respect for any writer who writes because, unlike what the general consensus is, writing is NOT easy. 

Going back to the point of this thread... Some people could even argue that happy stories have become the "norm" on here. However, there's still unhappy endings and dehumanizing stories out there, but they're fewer and far between then when Tainted Sins and numerous other writers, of decades past, started the horror concept of diaper stories. The birth of the mental regression movement especially has lost steam since the time when Long Rifle cemented himself as our equivalent of Stephan King. He is one of my idols and why I became a writer in this community. That and Ausdpr. Moving on from the hero worship, few have stepped up to fill his shoes. I ultimately started writing because I wanted to see stories that explored fucked up situations like mental regression, diaper machines. role reversal, unfair endings and of course birthing which is how I ultimately ended up creating a subgenre that I call "birthing" in this fetish. 

I have no horse in this race. Writers will write whatever they want. Commissioners hold great influence too over our writers and this fact cannot be over looked. I've been paid to go far darker than I ever thought possible which is why I have written True Nightmare and numerous other tales of torment in the spiritual and sexual sense. 

In closing, TFmonkey brings up a fair observation and maybe it could've been brought up in a different way, but it is no less true. I believe that everyone should try to push their literary limits and try to tackle a more "unhappy" story if they want. I'll tell you from personal experience, it's actually really fun!

[WBDaddy]

Self-insertion is a thing.  Some people are motivated to write stories that speak to their fantasies - how much they'd love to have someone just sweep them out of their current life, infantilize them, and live happily ever after.

It's an easy thing to write when that's your dream.  

Also, stories tend to be less well-received here when you challenge people with darker concepts.  When I started writing "A Little Legal Issue", I was met with immediate blowback because I was touching on abuse, violence, even murder.  When I wrote "The Pariah", people noped out because of the abuse aspects, the Stockholm syndrome concepts, etc.  

I think the popularity of DD stories is that they are removed from reality.  It's okay to have a horror story that's set somewhere else, where there's no chance of that happening here.  When it's realistic enough to send the deep chills up your spine, and hits close enough to home (because it's diaper fic) to where you're unconsciously looking over your shoulder,  or worse remembering trauma you experienced, it makes people uncomfortable.  

But that's people getting real, and getting real is a hard thing to do.  It's much easier to write diapered Cinderella than it is to write diapered Buffalo Bill (Silence of the Lambs, for those of you too young to remember that one). 

[WBDaddy]

2 hours ago, Nicole Kolibri said:

Thomas Harris is the name of the author "The Red Dragon" and "Silence of the Lamps"

I know.  I was referring to the villain character in Silence, not the author.

[Cute_Kitten]

Quality of content= how well the story is written, not what is portrayed/ what events happen in the story. You can have a light hearted well written story that leaves a reader feeling all warm and fuzzy. Or you can have a well written, tragic and morose story that leaves a reader in tears. 

I don't feel my stories are all that dark, but I don't shy away from heavy themes either.  I've had a few people tell me a story or two was too dark/ heavy for them, but then I've written a gamut from eating disorders to a Nazi Christmas. 

[WBDaddy]

29 minutes ago, Cute_Kitten said:

Quality of content= how well the story is written, not what is portrayed/ what events happen in the story. You can have a light hearted well written story that leaves a reader feeling all warm and fuzzy. Or you can have a well written, tragic and morose story that leaves a reader in tears. 

I don't feel my stories are all that dark, but I don't shy away from heavy themes either.  I've had a few people tell me a story or two was too dark/ heavy for them, but then I've written a gamut from eating disorders to a Nazi Christmas. 

Yeah, I'm definitely a fan of dark and heavy themes myself, but it's mostly out of a motivation to make the readers FEEL SOMETHING, and feel it INTENSELY.  I want to evoke a reaction out of someone.  I want them to cry at the death of a character, or rage at a character's cruelty, or fall out of their chair laughing at a character who is patently absurd.  

And I want them to have mixed feelings, too.  I want them to both love and hate people in my stories.  I want to show people characters that are deeply flawed, yet still worthy of sympathy.  

[BoTox]

I recently released my fourth story in the legally diapered genre and this one had a less-than-happy ending. It has a sequel that is happier ending but I knew the sequel was coming when i wrote that one. It wasn't really a cliff hanger so much as a good point to have a story end.

It depends on who you identify with in a story a lot of times. In Interview with a Vampire, was that a happy ending or not?

[Drownedinp]

Unfortunately I didn't even find this place until 2017, I can't speak of the old stories 10 or 15 years ago. I killed my one of my main characters off once and received a lot of flack for that I went back and gave it a happy ending!

[aaah]

I find it fascinating how stories changed over the time.

A while back, the quality was in general (!) much lower, however it was much easier to find the good ones. And also the ones that got to in the right way. You just needed to search the name of the couple of authors you really liked. And everyone metioned the few better ones. Astonishingly, forums tended to be more specialized, too. Or the seemed more homogeneous -- I don't know.

There was a clearer distinction between AB and DL content; the DDLG stuff and all these modern terms may be a reason why the content is incredingly mixed. Maybe that was a reason why there seemed (?) to be more discussion about stories. Maybe the web was differently used back then (it was certainly differently structured with all the blogs or even further back with yahoo groups and such), however I remember reading more discussion and recommendation of stories, which made it easier to find the right ones.

People getting into this whole diaper thing nowadays are, I assume, quite differently socialized then a lot of people back ten (or, well, twenty) years ago. This "little" thing is being presented as a lifestlye, sometimes as a sexual identity. And sometimes -- this needs to be understood in the right way, it's not meant to pathologize anyone -- the fantasies over there are clearly wish fulfillment, e.g. a way to deal with depression. This is perfectly okay. And it'd be strange if the mental health crisis wouldn't reach the domain of (somtimes sexual) fantasies. But it introduces other elements into a story that need readers that happen to have the same wishes. And those readers may be quite vocal, when they like a wish-fulfillment story (or expected one and got something else). While all these cultural stuff is mostly in specialized groups / on tumblr, this also means, that on the few non-specialized forums like this one here, there is a lot more stuff that appeals only to part of its users.

Just to repeat myself: I don't mean to say "little" fantasies are not okay. All fantasies are okay. I also don't mean they all deal heavily in wish-fulfillment. And anyway : a LOT of the stories here are wish-fulfillment. My point is: There seems to be a quite vocal, quite moralistic crowd regarding some darker themes.

That's okay. But that also means that it's really hard to find the stuff that appeals to you. It'd be great if there was a recommendation thread linking good forced regression or forced / humiliation-focussed DL stories.  (I know there is one, but most of the links are dead by now...)

----

I do have some others observations I want to share, but they are off-topic. You've been warned.

 

On 5/20/2020 at 9:56 PM, WBDaddy said:

Yeah, I'm definitely a fan of dark and heavy themes myself, but it's mostly out of a motivation to make the readers FEEL SOMETHING, and feel it INTENSELY.  I want to evoke a reaction out of someone.  I want them to cry at the death of a character, or rage at a character's cruelty, or fall out of their chair laughing at a character who is patently absurd.   

 

Okay, but how do you know you reach you readers, then? There are different modes of affection, different modes of perceiving something as intense. I want to develop that thought a bit. I think it's noteworthy to see how themes and motifs tend to shift. Back then, a lot of stories revolved around (fictional) parent/child dynamics with a heavy focus on discipline or punishments. Nowadays, the stories seem more immerserve, e.g. spend a lot of time to develop or adopt a fictional universe in which you as a reader can dwell. Look at the popularity of the Diaper Dimension universe, for example. There is punishment, too. But it's not a function of a specific familial dynamic per se, rather a (logical or more precisely, real) function of the world . If you live in the Diaper Dimension and are a Little, you know what to expect. It's just part of being in this world, that there may be diapers in your future, as it's part of diving to get wet. To get back to topic: I'd argue that the stories seeming to be nicer is an effect of this shift. It's harder to be mean to your character in an immersively told story. The "making someone feel something" is in this immersive stories less relative to what the protagonists expierence, but _how_ it is to be in the world depicted.

Going back off-topic.

On 5/20/2020 at 9:56 PM, WBDaddy said:

 

There seems to be less original content. Maybe this is an effect of the increasingly well-formed universes and story ideas available? Back ten years ago, there were also a lot of clichéed stories. But they were also more (often badly written) odd (or maybe better: ideosyncratic) fantasies.

Aren't pullups gaining a lot more traction? When was the last time you read a story revolving around cloth diapers? They were huge a few years back. Of course, there are also some developments I find unsettling, e.g. the drive to commercialize diaper  / age play erotica (just read a fascinating piece about the erotica industry: see here). The often seem to be more, well, let's say, nurturing. It's a well-described mechanism of cultural industry to produce happy endings; this may also effect non-commercial stories. I prefer the idea of a community of like minded strangers wanting to entertain, to develop one's own sexual fantasies as freely and radically as reality may (or should) not allow.

Sometimes it seems, that the users, on average, of this kind of forums are getting older. What are the younger folks up to? Where do they share their fantasies? Are they all in private SnapChat groups? There was some drive to go over to Tumblr, some time ago. However, after the very puritanical political choices they made, the communities over there seem not be thriving anymore.

 

 

[WBDaddy]

5 hours ago, aaah said:

Okay, but how do you know you reach you readers, then?

I probably reach fewer people, based on the comments I get, but the ones I reach are people who are impacted by what I wrote.  There is a certain value to a comment more substantive than "M0AR PL0X!"  

I see it now in other folks around here, honestly.  There are writers who are doing super-creative things, and the commentary in their story threads is radically different than that of folks who are just cranking out pablum for the fap masses.   

 

5 hours ago, aaah said:

There seems to be less original content. Maybe this is an effect of the increasingly well-formed universes and story ideas available? Back ten years ago, there were also a lot of clichéed stories. But they were also more (often badly written) odd (or maybe better: ideosyncratic) fantasies.

Nah, there isn't less original content.  I can count on one hand the number of truly great stories I read that dated 2010 or earlier.  And I was around back then, so, I kinda know.  

 

 

 

 

[justme1234]

I feel like there are a few truisms acting on your feelings here, Tfmonkey.

First, name any subject and any time-frame, ever, and you will find people who say the exact same thing you did in the OC above. Quality of X is lower, there's no dedication to the craft of X anymore, all X's look the same nowadays, etc. It's just the nature of change over time; both of the subject, and of the observer.

Also, between 10 and 20 years ago, it was early days in discovery of like-minded people on the internet. The WWW didn't really start until mid-late 90's, and the population of users grew exponentially from 2000-2010. This brought MASSIVE new viewers/participators to kink-sites like this one, all of them amazed to find their spiritual kin, many of them 30 and over, and most of them bursting with creative energy.

Nowadays, most NEW users are kids, just recently allowed to peruse sites like this. Kids (well, late teens and beyond) who are also excited to find new friends, but are younger and newer writers than those who wrote during the mid 2000's.

 

[Alex Bridges]

I prefer my stories be complex. I don’t think the “darkness” in a story is due solely to its ending but must be seen in the entirety of the writing, and I think it can be too reductive to characterize a story as dark/light.

Is Done Adulting dark? Large and long parts of it are. It’s premised on just how dark the world can be, and how hard it can be to live in it even in good times. But the ending is happy.

In fact, what inspired me to write it was how dark even stories with happy endings often are, because so many of the Diaper Dimension stories contain degrees of violence, some of them pretty extreme. I wanted to write a rejoinder to that.
 

If I were to register a complaint about ABDL literature today compared to 10 years ago, it’s that there are far fewer stories NOT part of the Diaper Dimension or Keeperverse, but that’s merely a preference of mine, not a strike against all the stories we have today. I’d say on balance, the quality of stories is far ahead of where most stories were in the past, and a reminder of that is no further away than some of the sites with large archives, including the front page of DD.

As for why my stories, so far, have happy endings, it’s not because I’m responding to what readers want. I write what I want, and I’m writing for escape. I’d rather escape somewhere pleasant, but that said, my three main stories can’t be categorized as dark/light.

Done Adulting has many heavy themes broken up by incredible sweetness and light.

Fear of Missing Out is, I think, darker than most readers realize because of the veneer of consent it has.

And You’re Not Too Old for It is sometimes cute and arousing and sometimes about the struggles of accepting domination and sometimes about the difficulties of a marriage.
 

I guess, to me, a “light” or “dark” story is boring. Conflict is the essence of drama, and that’s different than light and dark. Life isn’t light or dark, and I prefer my stories to start with a premise, sometimes an absurd one, and then be as realistic as possible within that premise. If anything I wrote could be considered light or dark, I’d be failing by my own standards because that’s not realistic.