Electrical Stimulation Experiment

[roo]

I stumbled across an article describing an experiment where a 20Hz frequency signal to the prostatic urethra caused bladder contractions and urination.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21756572/

I think a lot of us have played with electrical stimulation and discovered no combination of frequencies and electrode positions that would cause this, so I was a little intriuged.

So i rigged up a little electrode that would stent the outer sphincter and be in contact with the prostatic urethra, and made a 20Hz file for my electrosex unit. Then allowed my bladder to fill, so it was noticeable but not uncomfortable. Then, washed up and inserted the stent.

I was contintent with the stent in place. It didnt go through the bladder neck. Then I fired up the 20Hz stim. It works. Within 10 seconds I started urinating. It was a weakish stream, but there was no sense of the bladder contracting.

I have no thoughts at the moment that this is anymore than an interesting experiment. But I put it out to the hivemind, as an interesting fact and technique.

 

[NotMyname]

That looks sketchy as hell. I've tried external stimulation and rectal stimulation but haven't had success unless I'm about to actually have an accident.

[Fenton]

I have been told by  pelvic therapy here to try the Attain product. As my pelvic pain, urinary retention, and incontinence it could help she said. My urology PA also blessed it. So I guess will see

Fent

[babykeiff]

It is not unusual for muscles to relax / contract from electrical stimulation. It also will confuse nervous response. This is due to the way nerves communicate and muscles are triggered. It is via electrical impulses. We basically are electrically wired.

If one triggers nerves / muscles with an electrical pulse, the nerve / muscle will activate. It is not needed to be 20Hz or even a specific frequency. Any pulse / group of pulses can trigger muscles to contract. Commercially, there are muscle pulse machines supposed to work at strengthing muscles. They have limited success, but they use low current and voltage pulses to trigger muscle groups to act. Similar can be used to control urinary sphincters, but since the sphincters are so close to critical systems that we need to survive (kidneys / reproductive system etc) unless you are fully aware of teh possible complications etc, it is not a good idea to play.

A previous member asked can he 'kill' the urinary sphincter with electrical impulses ie one from a hair remover etc... the simple answer is YES, but first dig your grave. The risk of fatal injury is extremely high. All it needs is one volt at half an amp across your heart to stop same.

 

[dipper]

I would advise you to not try this again. Electrical shocks can cause burns to the tissue - which is how its used during surgery as electrocautery - and further cause strictures and other complications. A one or two time thing might be fine but if you're going for any more than that you should buy a raw chicken fillet to try and gauge the tissues' response to your specific voltage/amps.  Interesting experiment nevertheless!

[oliver d]

Managed to lose control twice yesterday with a E stim chastity cage on what frequency it was I do"nt know it simply started flowing out of my penis.

[foreverdl]

On 12/9/2019 at 9:48 PM, roo said:

I stumbled across an article describing an experiment where a 20Hz frequency signal to the prostatic urethra caused bladder contractions and urination.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21756572/

I think a lot of us have played with electrical stimulation and discovered no combination of frequencies and electrode positions that would cause this, so I was a little intriuged.

So i rigged up a little electrode that would stent the outer sphincter and be in contact with the prostatic urethra, and made a 20Hz file for my electrosex unit. Then allowed my bladder to fill, so it was noticeable but not uncomfortable. Then, washed up and inserted the stent.

I was contintent with the stent in place. It didnt go through the bladder neck. Then I fired up the 20Hz stim. It works. Within 10 seconds I started urinating. It was a weakish stream, but there was no sense of the bladder contracting.

I have no thoughts at the moment that this is anymore than an interesting experiment. But I put it out to the hivemind, as an interesting fact and technique.

 

Do you know of where to connect the leads externally to get as close as possible to the sphincter muscle ? I have an original old school elctro unit that they used to use at the chiropractor , I tried to use my Atens unit but was not able to find a good point to connect to get any results.

[roo]

No that's the unfortunate thing. Many of us have tried external placement of tens electrodes. No combination of electrode and driving frequency has produced any results. That's why I, wrongly, thought people might be interested in my reproduction of the results from a medical experiment.

Even this excitation will only cause a contraction of the bladder, but not any release of the prostatic sphincter, so without stenting that, there won't be any micturation.

By the way I was talking milliamp tens or electrostim currents here, that are routinely and safely used to excite muscles. I was never suggesting hooking your Willy to an arc welder, or domestic voltage. There are dozens of penile electrodes available for electrostim. I can assure you that users aren't cooking their kidneys with the tiny power that these units can deliver.

 

[Dubious]

I have tried it on penis and din't like the feeling, mostly torture 

Tried it in anus and it was more pleasant, but didn't really do anything

[foreverdl]

On 4/9/2020 at 7:52 AM, roo said:

No that's the unfortunate thing. Many of us have tried external placement of tens electrodes. No combination of electrode and driving frequency has produced any results. That's why I, wrongly, thought people might be interested in my reproduction of the results from a medical experiment.

Even this excitation will only cause a contraction of the bladder, but not any release of the prostatic sphincter, so without stenting that, there won't be any micturation.

By the way I was talking milliamp tens or electrostim currents here, that are routinely and safely used to excite muscles. I was never suggesting hooking your Willy to an arc welder, or domestic voltage. There are dozens of penile electrodes available for electrostim. I can assure you that users aren't cooking their kidneys with the tiny power that these units can deliver.

 

Yeh I'm still hopeful for an external location, I have tried a lot of locations but no help. I do have the older atens, that looks like an old pager. But I also recently picked up one of the commercial unit, like they used in the chiropractor office. But it has problems that I'm slowly tracking the bad components down. I found it on eBay. I plan to use it on my back also, I really saw a big difference back when I was using both the portable one, and then the Dr used one like I now have.

[~Brian~]

On 1/7/2020 at 2:25 PM, dipper said:

I would advise you to not try this again. Electrical shocks can cause burns to the tissue - which is how its used during surgery as electrocautery - and further cause strictures and other complications. A one or two time thing might be fine but if you're going for any more than that you should buy a raw chicken fillet to try and gauge the tissues' response to your specific voltage/amps.  Interesting experiment nevertheless!

I agree with @dipper

I would not want to use electrical shocks or stimulation like this:  to me, there are too many things that could go wrong:  You could burn yourself, cause electrical imbalance issues, or damage your body - The only way I would do any of this, is under doctor's care - I wouldn't want to have a heart attack or something, and electo stim is/was sometimes used on the disabled, and I think that it was used as a way of "behavior modification."

I also have visions of the way they used to be able to do a whole host of garbage to the disabled:  BAAAAD Stuff - makes me shiver sometimes, and that was when it was LEGAL to do that stuff....

Sorry guys and Gals:  I just get the heebee Jeebees when I think of it (Being used the way I remember, and the fact that this type of use is still allowed today - Laws are being written to outlaw this use, but until this barbaric use is outlawed forever, it will still make me cringe) 

The ONLY way I would use this, would be LOW Intensity, a TENS unit, and for helping train your brain and muscles, like for someone in Physio/Physical Therapy/PT/OT if you are trying to stimulate a response: Low intensity, limited duration, medically necessary and directed, supervised by a PT/OT or MD

Brian

[foreverdl]

3 hours ago, baker7 said:

I agree with @dipper

I would not want to use electrical shocks or stimulation like this:  to me, there are too many things that could go wrong:  You could burn yourself, cause electrical imbalance issues, or damage your body - The only way I would do any of this, is under doctor's care - I wouldn't want to have a heart attack or something, and electo stim is/was sometimes used on the disabled, and I think that it was used as a way of "behavior modification."

I also have visions of the way they used to be able to do a whole host of garbage to the disabled:  BAAAAD Stuff - makes me shiver sometimes, and that was when it was LEGAL to do that stuff....

Sorry guys and Gals:  I just get the heebee Jeebees when I think of it (Being used the way I remember, and the fact that this type of use is still allowed today - Laws are being written to outlaw this use, but until this barbaric use is outlawed forever, it will still make me cringe) 

The ONLY way I would use this, would be LOW Intensity, a TENS unit, and for helping train your brain and muscles, like for someone in Physio/Physical Therapy/PT/OT if you are trying to stimulate a response: Low intensity, limited duration, medically necessary and directed, supervised by a PT/OT or MD

Brian

I understand your point,, But I'm a retired Electrician, I have had 480v 100 amp and higher in my body several times, I have had 110v also, I worked on TV's back when they were the type with a glass picture tube, I can't even count the times I was shocked with low amp, 12-50k volt dc ,, that's the voltage that lights up the phosphorus in a picture tube. I know a 9 volt battery on your tongue can kill you, I'm not worried about the shocking part.... been there.  I'm much more worried about putting something inside of my willy. Infection etc.

Thanks for your info 

[~Brian~]

11 minutes ago, foreverdl said:

I understand your point,, But I'm a retired Electrician, I have had 480v 100 amp and higher in my body several times, I have had 110v also, I worked on TV's back when they were the type with a glass picture tube, I can't even count the times I was shocked with low amp, 12-50k volt dc ,, that's the voltage that lights up the phosphorus in a picture tube. I know a 9 volt battery on your tongue can kill you, I'm not worried about the shocking part.... been there.  I'm much more worried about putting something inside of my willy. Infection etc.

Thanks for your info 

@foreverdl

You're welcome

EXACTLY:  Nothing is getting put inside my willy either - Electricians know the power that they are playing with.  I just have strange memories when they would be able to do electro shock Therapy on the Disabled that are being treated at inpatient facilities.  They call that "treatment" and "Behavior Modification."  back when I was little, they could do stuff like that, and get away with it by law - They could say that the therapy helps the patient - Although it was used for PUNISHMENT as well - Egads - imagine if you were disabled, or nonverbal and they punished you if you wet your pants or a diaper?  W R O N G - This kinda stuff is inhumane and unnecessary - Sometimes, I wished that the people getting the "treatments" could do to the idiots what they were doing to the patients.......man.....its just.........UNREAL.......

Thank The Lord that they don't allow some of this ridiculousness, or at least I Think that they don't allow it.....

Brian

[foreverdl]

2 hours ago, baker7 said:

@foreverdl

You're welcome

EXACTLY:  Nothing is getting put inside my willy either - Electricians know the power that they are playing with.  I just have strange memories when they would be able to do electro shock Therapy on the Disabled that are being treated at inpatient facilities.  They call that "treatment" and "Behavior Modification."  back when I was little, they could do stuff like that, and get away with it by law - They could say that the therapy helps the patient - Although it was used for PUNISHMENT as well - Egads - imagine if you were disabled, or nonverbal and they punished you if you wet your pants or a diaper?  W R O N G - This kinda stuff is inhumane and unnecessary - Sometimes, I wished that the people getting the "treatments" could do to the idiots what they were doing to the patients.......man.....its just.........UNREAL.......

Thank The Lord that they don't allow some of this ridiculousness, or at least I Think that they don't allow it.....

Brian

I do agree with you on the shock treatment,,  one of my step mothers was mentally off. I am not really sure just what her issues were,, I was only 10-14 yrs old,  but when she came back afterwards from a 3 month stent, she was ok for a while and then back to her old self and over and over. We as kids never really understood it. She needed help but I don't think ? that stuff was working or she would have gotten better. But I'm just talking about muscle stimulation and I will be in control of it. I used the electrical stimulation at the chiropractor many yrs it really helps. I know it works on the muscle its just getting it to the correct places. 

And Yes Thank God they can't do those shock treatment anymore 

[~Brian~]

51 minutes ago, foreverdl said:

But I'm just talking about muscle stimulation and I will be in control of it. I used the electrical stimulation at the chiropractor many yrs it really helps. I know it works on the muscle its just getting it to the correct places. 

@foreverdl

Yes, that is what I thought as well - electro stim, done CORRECTLY, does help people - I've had it done on a TENS unit, and it helped me.  I have No Problem with it being used THIS way, but I question using it inside your body as described in earlier posts.

57 minutes ago, foreverdl said:

I do agree with you on the shock treatment,,  one of my step mothers was mentally off. I am not really sure just what her issues were,, I was only 10-14 yrs old,  but when she came back afterwards from a 3 month stent, she was ok for a while and then back to her old self and over and over. We as kids never really understood it. She needed help but I don't think ? that stuff was working or she would have gotten better.

Shock treatment does NOTHING for most people that I have seen - In my mind, it just is used as a veiled "treatment option" and during that, it turns into a control technique - They use it when someone is not acting the way they want them to, and usually, that means the person is subjected to HELL - They use it to frighten and threaten compliance, and it is NOT helpful to people!

2 hours ago, foreverdl said:

And Yes Thank God they can't do those shock treatment anymore 

Agreed, and AMEN!

Brian

[babykeiff]

I have read the posts here, and they go for the crazy to the insane... putting a voltage across a chicken fillet to gauge the response, getting shocked with 110 volts / 220volts 100 amps, getting shocked with 50,000 volts etc....

The highest voltage used in the human body is .00125v at .1mA, which is the control voltages induced by interference from a pacemaker. Anything higher than that, and a principle of decreasing resistance occurs as current increases. This is the destruction of the cells as they boil.

The reason that the mains voltage is 'safe' is due to the potential difference combined with the alternating current. When one receives a shock, it is the muscles contracting. The connection is for a fraction of a second. This process of self preservation is taught to most electrical engineers and firefighters - test / follow a wall etc using back of hand instead of fingers. As a result, touching a live wire will cause the reaction to remove yourself from the supply. Even in that short amount of time, damage will be done - as dipper has stated, these voltages are used to burn cells during medical procedures. Even this is a very controlled environment, an operating room, where there are numerous experts monitoring everything... and even then, sometimes it fails.

In electrical engineering, the unit under test, is placed on an isolated floating supply. Due to that, connection to one of the lines - phase or neutral (both are the same due to floating), does not put the engineer in the circuit as the ground / earth plain is not netralised. Therefore, the engineer can touch a 50,000 volt line without getting a shock.

Even the people that work on the high voltage lines, do so from a helicopter rather than with something connected to ground. As a result, they avoid placing themselves in the middle of a circuit.

In relation to shock therapy, tens units etc, this is done by creating a potential difference between the two poles - i.e charging a dc source (capacitor) and discharging same across set points. Yes if one measures the voltage / current, it raises to tens of thousands of volts, but the current is tiny. It is the interference pulse that is being used, and the bodies reaction to same. This can destroy cells similar to cauterisation. The shock therapy was supposed to destroy damaged brain cells, to allow healthy cells to develop. The process was discontinued for numerous reasons - one major one - it doesn't work. Tens / fitness machines are sold to 'exercise' muscles. They cause muscles to contract, but they don't exercise them. Exercise needs muscular( muscles), vascular (blood system), cardio (heart) and pulmonary (lung) worked in harmony to use energy so that the reserves (fat) is converted to energy. There is still open debate on the effectiveness of electro musclar stimulation as a form of exercise.

Using a DEAD chicken to see its reaction to electric shock! this reminds me of the joke "Person running experiment - he shouts at frog with legs and it instantly hops away, he cuts the legs of, and shouts again, the frog does not move - conclusion :- if one cuts of the legs of frogs, they go deaf"

Back to topic,

the only way to stimulate the specific muscles (urinary and anal sphincters), is by direct interference - ie a pacemaker or something similar connected directly to the relevant sphincter. Any spare voltage / current in that area will cause internal electric burns to ones kidneys / testes. Once something is burnt, it is dead and starts to decay.

Nothing is available in a retail and/or medical field to do what one wants - create temp/perm bladder/bowel incontinence - and for those playing with fire - they will get burnt or dead. 

 

[BlakeJordan]

Feel like it’s important to note here that ECT aka shock treatment has not been discontinued and is still widely used for various diagnoses. It is not done in back alley ways, but in top universities and medical centers. Just FYI.

[babykeiff]

On 5/19/2020 at 1:17 AM, foreverdl said:

My real question I guess is,, if someone  burns the outer sphincter will it weaken the muscle ? or harden it up so it won't open ?

. ,,,,,,,,,,,,I am not afraid of the electric ⚡️Maybe I'm just lucky ,, Like I have said I can't count the times that I have been shocked on one leg of 3 phase 480v high amperage, ( 277v AC per leg).  I know many guys that were old school like me, I know it damages muscles when you connect with electricity, And of corse it can kill you.  I am now retired,, I was a licensed electrician for a lot of yrs. I was too glad to get out of the field after they started to get really strict on the OSHA laws. I was a careful worker but I felt un safe using the flash gear, like 3 layerings of gloves. etc..  I do know people have been killed with a 9 volt battery. I was shocked by  older televisions years ago. , ... but on one occasion I made an accidental connection from the 50k low amp lead of an older  tv, I did the normal reaction of jerking of the hand. and was cut and the metal chassis tie point went in a 1/4" deep, not a drop of blood, it cauterized the cut. because of the voltage. That was a crazy thing,  an  open hole in my  wrist with meat balls in it. ..Anyhow I got a little off subject. 

If you burn the outer sphincter, it will be dead, so there is no way it can move. Then, if you are still alive, you have about 2-3 hours to get to a hospital, get taken into surgery so a person who actually knows what they are doing can cut an opening in it to avoid your bladder from bursting.... that is if you are still alive from the complicated trauma that you have created to your balls, and your blood system. Hopefully, the electrical charge has not created a blood clot that has made its way to your heart. 

It is only fatal if one looses an organ that one actually needs / uses!

Edited May 26, 2020 by spoonchicken

[Wolf]

Um, I don't know where to start with this one. But, I would first with my understanding of Electricity do caution to be extremely careful with this sort of thing because Electricity can and will leave you permanently damaged and it can and will be fatal to you. Also, I really hope that you are getting this done with the help of a licensed medical professional as they are trained in this sort of thing. Please I beg and implore you to not ever do this D.I.Y. using poorly cobbled together instructions found on sketchy parts of the web.

So, in short, I really hope that you are getting professional and medical assistance with this sort of thing. And I seriously hope that these medical professionals who are rep-able.