Tariff fear?

[Comfortably diapered]

Anyone worried about the Chinese trade war if alot of our products are imported from China like diapers or other items?

[le Hollandais]

Not me. I have all the diapers, plastic pants, and soakers I need. I wear cloth diapers.

[ppdude]

Nope. I don't buy Chinese crap unless there is no alternative, and there is always an alternative.  Terriffs actuallykills the Chinese monopoly and opens many opportunities for American companies not to mention other countries. Let's all get jobs making American diapers and rubber panties!!!

[Comfortably diapered]

For disposables I'm guessing northshore megamax would be they are imported from China it's my go to and I'd be bummed if I would pay more for the than I do already. 

[Crinklz Kat]

Time to stock up then!   Considering all ABDL diaper brands are made in China, that could potentially kill off some of them.  I'd buy more right now... but I am out of space to store them! 

However, considering that they're "medical garments"  (and customs declarations wouldn't need to be any more explicit on that), I wouldn't really expect any tariffs.

[rusty pins]

Not worried so much about diapers coming from China, I'm more worried about the overall effects on the economy.  There is no question that there as been an unbalance in tariffs between the U.S. and China, however you can't just suddenly raise tariffs on Chinese imports when we also export so much to China.  You don't think any country isn't going to stop and say, "Oh hell no!  We import as much from them as we export so to make up for their new tariffs, we will increase ours as well!"  Who suffers?  The American consumers and farmers!  Farmers are already worried since soybeans are a major export to China.  Many predict they will go bust or not even be able to make any profit to survive if they have to try and sell their crops to other countries for less if they even can.  Remember, if countries other than China needed our soybeans and crops, they would already be buying all of them.  You can't lose 50% of your business and expect to survive. 

Neither the U.S. or China will get ahead with an increase on the new tariffs imposed by both countries, however we consumers will end up paying more for our products, experts saying about $1,000 more per year per household on average.  That will most likely cause consumers to cut back, having a ripple effect on jobs and the economy.  Less spending means less money being made, cheaper vacations, more job layoffs because of it and not a good situation.  I'm not talking off the top of my head.  History shows that this is what happens and has happened many times leading from a good economy to a recession.  That is my overall concern. 

[ppdude]

China is like a cocaine habit. Makes you feel good for a short time, have to have more, keep you hooked, and kills you in the end when you're not longer useful. It may hurt but in the end is worth it.

 

[WetDad]

My business is severely impacted by the tariffs. Many in high tech are having problems with the crazy tariff situation, and it's not just China, but other countries as well. At a recent trade group meeting, many of us reflected on this issue, and nobody liked the amateur trade negotiations being done over Twitter.

[Alex Bridges]

11 hours ago, rusty pins said:

Not worried so much about diapers coming from China, I'm more worried about the overall effects on the economy.  There is no question that there as been an unbalance in tariffs between the U.S. and China, however you can't just suddenly raise tariffs on Chinese imports when we also export so much to China.  You don't think any country isn't going to stop and say, "Oh hell no!  We import as much from them as we export so to make up for their new tariffs, we will increase ours as well!"  Who suffers?  The American consumers and farmers!  Farmers are already worried since soybeans are a major export to China.  Many predict they will go bust or not even be able to make any profit to survive if they have to try and sell their crops to other countries for less if they even can.  Remember, if countries other than China needed our soybeans and crops, they would already be buying all of them.  You can't lose 50% of your business and expect to survive. 

Neither the U.S. or China will get ahead with an increase on the new tariffs imposed by both countries, however we consumers will end up paying more for our products, experts saying about $1,000 more per year per household on average.  That will most likely cause consumers to cut back, having a ripple effect on jobs and the economy.  Less spending means less money being made, cheaper vacations, more job layoffs because of it and not a good situation.  I'm not talking off the top of my head.  History shows that this is what happens and has happened many times leading from a good economy to a recession.  That is my overall concern. 

Unfortunately, spot on.

Tariffs as wielded by this administration are a solution in search of an economic problem.

[littleTomás]

On 9/2/2019 at 5:24 PM, Comfortably diapered said:

Anyone worried about the Chinese trade war if alot of our products are imported from China like diapers or other items?

I'm not worried when it comes to the impacts on ABDL products. My favorite diapers, Crinklz, are made in Germany, so no direct impact there.

[willnotwill]

Adam from NSC has made an announcement on this.   You can read it over in ADISC:  https://www.adisc.org/forum/threads/china-tariffs-coming-september-1-on-diapers-and-underpads.135601/

 

[Firefly 35]

On 9/2/2019 at 5:24 PM, Comfortably diapered said:

Anyone worried about the Chinese trade war if alot of our products are imported from China like diapers or other items?

I knew this situation was going to blow up eventually so I stocked up on diapers and many other products a few months ago.  I think it's still early enough to stock up before prices rise but not for long at all.

[MegaChar]

Not too worried since the only thing I buy from China is the MegaMax from Northshore. If the price goes over 35 a pack then my next option would be the Crinklz since they are not made in China.

 

This was a fight that was looong overdue. One thing I do object to is the President using only tariffs instead of doing a full out embargo of Chinese goods to show that we no longer support communism though I think he's working his way to completly cutting off China like he did to Venezuela

[ppdude]

1 hour ago, MegaChar said:

Not too worried since the only thing I buy from China is the MegaMax from Northshore. If the price goes over 35 a pack then my next option would be the Crinklz since they are not made in China.

 

This was a fight that was looong overdue. One thing I do object to is the President using only tariffs instead of doing a full out embargo of Chinese goods to show that we no longer support communism though I think he's working his way to completly cutting off China like he did to Venezuela

Yes! You get it! Not to mention that China doesn't play nice. If you look at what they're up to, it ain't pretty and it will come back to bite us.

[Alex Bridges]

Brief primer on how a tariff works:

1. The shipper of goods passing through a port pays the tariff to the government. Government pockets the tariff. For example, Maersk pays the US government when a ship arrives in a US port, if the goods on board are subject to a tariff.
2. The shipper passes that price onto the owner of the goods (the company who hired them, in most cases). Maersk charges Apple for the cost of the tariff that Maersk paid on Apples’s behalf.
3. The owner of the goods passes the price onto their buyer, usually the wholesaler or retailer. Apple isn’t about to just eat that cost and accept lower profits, so they pass the price on to Walmart.
4.  The retailer passes the price on to consumers. Walmart isn’t going to accept a lower profit either, so Walmart passes the cost on to the consumer, AKA you and me.

I work with business around the globe, including American companies exporting to China who are being hurt because retaliatory tariffs are making it cheaper for Chinese importers to use alternate suppliers, which is easy to do for agricultural commodities, and with American companies who import from China who are being hurt because they can’t just move production facilities to another country at the drop of a hat or even recoup their investment inside a decade if they tried. 

Put another way: if I’m a Chinese importer, I can drop my contract with my supplier in Iowa and easily order soybeans from Germany tomorrow; if I’m an American manufacture, I can’t move my factory factory in China (and the workforce) somewhere else anytime soon, so I’m going to have to pay that tariff and then pass it on to the consumer. The farmer in Iowa is losing money. The manufacturer is passing his higher costs on to you, which hurts you, and in six months it will hurt the manufacturer too when the higher price reduces sales volume. No one in China gets hurts in either scenario.

If people want to bring jobs from China to the US, it’s simple: repeal pretty much all labor regulations and environmental regulations, and reduce the minimum wage to about $6 a day. Then and only then will it be cheaper for American companies to produce their goods in the US. It’s that simple: it costs a fraction to hire a Chinese worker than it does an American worker, not because China is nefarious but because China is not a developed economy, has a much lower cost and standard of living, and doesn’t care if companies dump toxic waste in your drinking water.

Do I worry about the impact of tariffs on diapers? My diapers are made in Europe.

Do I worry about the impact on everything else? Yes.

When companies see their sales volume decline and then their profits, they will lay people off, Americans workers will get nervous they’re next, consumer spending will decline as people save instead of spend in fear they’ll lose their job next, business profits will decline further because Americans are spending less, businesses will lay off more people, consumers will spend less, etc. until we’re in a recession. That pretty much all a recession is: declining spending leading to a shrinking economy and the joblessness that goes with it. The irony is it’s the fiscal belt tightening that causes a recession and also that prolongs it, like those austerity measures in did in Europe and like budget sequestration did here.

Tariffs are a bad solution to an ill-defined problem.

[Alex Bridges]

11 hours ago, MegaChar said:

Not too worried since the only thing I buy from China is the MegaMax from Northshore. If the price goes over 35 a pack then my next option would be the Crinklz since they are not made in China.

 

This was a fight that was looong overdue. One thing I do object to is the President using only tariffs instead of doing a full out embargo of Chinese goods to show that we no longer support communism though I think he's working his way to completly cutting off China like he did to Venezuela

 

9 hours ago, ppdude said:

Yes! You get it! Not to mention that China doesn't play nice. If you look at what they're up to, it ain't pretty and it will come back to bite us.

Y’all are out of date on China’s political and economic system by about 25 years. China transitioned to a market economy between 1978 and 1993, with additional reforms in the mid 1990s. It’s a mix of private enterprise and state-owned enterprises, and a good example of a state-owned enterprise is Saudi Aramco, which no one has ever accused of being socialist (all the profits go to the Saudi Royal family and to fund the government). Another example would be the airlines in many smaller countries, which are also state-owned. Chinese state-owned companies are actually more capitalist because they accrue profits like regular companies rather than sending the money back to the government. 

The fact is, Chinese politics and economics look more like Vladimir Putin’s Russia than Vladimir Lenin’s Soviet Union. The Chinese Communist Party controls the state, but there’s nothing communist about it. It’s just like any other one-party government running an autocratic state, and a perennial fear is that without the communist ideology underpinning the Party, It has no real legitimacy and the Chinese people will come to see it as just a powerful cadre whose justification for being in power is “or else.” Hence the further the government gets from its communist past, the tighter they control civil society, not looser.

China now refers to its economy as a “socialist market economy with Chinese characteristics,” and the first thing commentators said when that was first announced was, “where’s the socialism?” Analysts have years called the socialist aspect of it a branding strategy rather than economic reality. Once the government allows widespread private investment, it’s no long communist. Even actual communists say China is not communist. It’s what’s called state-owned capitalism. 

You might even go so far as to say China’s political economy resembles Germany under the nazis - one-party state with a mixed market and command economy - the exact antithesis of communism, except China is even more capitalist than that because their companies produce goods for profit, where as German companies under nazism were part of a planned economy that produced goods for consumption.

You do see state owned enterprises being pressured to remit some profit to the government, but that’s actually a sign of weakness. The government needs the cash but is afraid to raise taxes, particularly if doing so scares off foreign investors.

[rusty pins]

8 hours ago, Author_Alex said:

Brief primer on how a tariff works:

1. The shipper of goods passing through a port pays the tariff to the government. Government pockets the tariff. For example, Maersk pays the US government when a ship arrives in a US port, if the goods on board are subject to a tariff.
2. The shipper passes that price onto the owner of the goods (the company who hired them, in most cases). Maersk charges Apple for the cost of the tariff that Maersk paid on Apples’s behalf.
3. The owner of the goods passes the price onto their buyer, usually the wholesaler or retailer. Apple isn’t about to just eat that cost and accept lower profits, so they pass the price on to Walmart.
4.  The retailer passes the price on to consumers. Walmart isn’t going to accept a lower profit either, so Walmart passes the cost on to the consumer, AKA you and me.

I work with business around the globe, including American companies exporting to China who are being hurt because retaliatory tariffs are making it cheaper for Chinese importers to use alternate suppliers, which is easy to do for agricultural commodities, and with American companies who import from China who are being hurt because they can’t just move production facilities to another country at the drop of a hat or even recoup their investment inside a decade if they tried. 

Put another way: if I’m a Chinese importer, I can drop my contract with my supplier in Iowa and easily order soybeans from Germany tomorrow; if I’m an American manufacture, I can’t move my factory factory in China (and the workforce) somewhere else anytime soon, so I’m going to have to pay that tariff and then pass it on to the consumer. The farmer in Iowa is losing money. The manufacturer is passing his higher costs on to you, which hurts you, and in six months it will hurt the manufacturer too when the higher price reduces sales volume. No one in China gets hurts in either scenario.

If people want to bring jobs from China to the US, it’s simple: repeal pretty much all labor regulations and environmental regulations, and reduce the minimum wage to about $6 a day. Then and only then will it be cheaper for American companies to produce their goods in the US. It’s that simple: it costs a fraction to hire a Chinese worker than it does an American worker, not because China is nefarious but because China is not a developed economy, has a much lower cost and standard of living, and doesn’t care if companies dump toxic waste in your drinking water.

Do I worry about the impact of tariffs on diapers? My diapers are made in Europe.

Do I worry about the impact on everything else? Yes.

When companies see their sales volume decline and then their profits, they will lay people off, Americans workers will get nervous they’re next, consumer spending will decline as people save instead of spend in fear they’ll lose their job next, business profits will decline further because Americans are spending less, businesses will lay off more people, consumers will spend less, etc. until we’re in a recession. That pretty much all a recession is: declining spending leading to a shrinking economy and the joblessness that goes with it. The irony is it’s the fiscal belt tightening that causes a recession and also that prolongs it, like those austerity measures in did in Europe and like budget sequestration did here.

Tariffs are a bad solution to an ill-defined problem.

Exactly!  Listen to the voice of experience and reason here!  Alex is correct and knows what he's talking about from experience!  Past history backs it up as well!

[Alex Bridges]

3 hours ago, rusty pins said:

Exactly!  Listen to the voice of experience and reason here!  Alex is correct and knows what he's talking about from experience!  Past history backs it up as well!

The problem isn’t that people done believe me. It’s that people think “the pain” as they call it, and by “they” I mean lackeys like Lindsey Graham who said this last week, is worth it to achieve the goal.

The problem is (1) no it’s not, and (2) what goal? Stick it to China? China isn’t being hurt. Bring back factory jobs to the US? Never going to happen. Reverse the trade imbalance? There’s nothing wrong with a negative trade imbalance. Coerce China into letting the Yuan float? I’d be impressed if five people on DD could even explain what that means without looking it up, and why that’s beneficial, and as a clue, unless you’re looking to open a factory or trade currency, it really doesn’t matter to you personally.

 

[ppdude]

I completely agree in principle with both Rusty and Alex. Tarriffs are ultimately paid by us, the consumer. And in the short term, there are other consequences which both of you stated eloquently.

China is, has, and will continue to be a problem. They make agreements and promptly break them. They state they have no military interests, and make agreements concerning those statements and promptly violate those agreements. We are getting "cheap stuff" which really isn't so cheap on the backs of the Chinese worker who is subject to any and all government whims. At any one time, their government could decide that their housing and a bowl of rice a day is sufficient and pay them no wage. In essence, we're supporting a communist government and passively giving our assent to them to continue with all their human and economic abuses of its own people.

Secondly, they are world trade cheaters. They say one thing then implement something completely different which only benefits themselves. They are politically active in every country of the world. Unlike us, they are patient when it comes to making their goals. They'll wait centuries to accomplish an end goal whereas we can't wait for a decade. It is well known that China is engaged in expansionist policies under the radar. They have successfully penetrated this country by using universities via giant grants and admittance policies. The US is pretty much an annexed territory.

Thirdy, their trade practices and theft of intellectual property are our fault. We willingly gave up these things when we agreed to do business with them. That is completely our short-sighted and stupid fault. It's been catching up to us for decades and is rearing its ugly head to the point where we're starting to feel pain as well as cheated.

Fourth, the media is to blame. The media is for the most part, completely silent because they hate Trump. You won't hear much from them on this unless it's negative as they blame Trump for any imagined slight while never stating the real issues. As long as our current media exists in its current form, you'll never know the reasons. They've made it appear as if the tarriffs are a temper tantrum when in fact the issues are coming to a head. The issues are being ignored or glossed over by the media. You won't know the nuke has blown until you realize you're dead.

I apologize for such a long, rambling post.

 

[Alex Bridges]

19 minutes ago, ppdude said:

I completely agree in principle with both Rusty and Alex. Tarriffs are ultimately paid by us, the consumer. And in the short term, there are other consequences which both of you stated eloquently.

China is, has, and will continue to be a problem. They make agreements and promptly break them. They state they have no military interests, and make agreements concerning those statements and promptly violate those agreements. We are getting "cheap stuff" which really isn't so cheap on the backs of the Chinese worker who is subject to any and all government whims. At any one time, their government could decide that their housing and a bowl of rice a day is sufficient and pay them no wage. In essence, we're supporting a communist government and passively giving our assent to them to continue with all their human and economic abuses of its own people.

Secondly, they are world trade cheaters. They say one thing then implement something completely different which only benefits themselves. They are politically active in every country of the world. Unlike us, they are patient when it comes to making their goals. They'll wait centuries to accomplish an end goal whereas we can't wait for a decade. It is well known that China is engaged in expansionist policies under the radar. They have successfully penetrated this country by using universities via giant grants and admittance policies. The US is pretty much an annexed territory.

Thirdy, their trade practices and theft of intellectual property are our fault. We willingly gave up these things when we agreed to do business with them. That is completely our short-sighted and stupid fault. It's been catching up to us for decades and is rearing its ugly head to the point where we're starting to feel pain as well as cheated.

Fourth, the media is to blame. The media is for the most part, completely silent because they hate Trump. You won't hear much from them on this unless it's negative as they blame Trump for any imagined slight while never stating the real issues. As long as our current media exists in its current form, you'll never know the reasons. They've made it appear as if the tarriffs are a temper tantrum when in fact the issues are coming to a head. The issues are being ignored or glossed over by the media. You won't know the nuke has blown until you realize you're dead.

I apologize for such a long, rambling post.

 

1) China has been a capitalist country since 1993. Chinese workers get paychecks from employers, not the government. The government doesn’t dictate what they eat or where they live. Frankly, the Cato Institute wishes the American economy was as de-regulated as China’s.

2) Everyone who pays attention knows China’s artificial reefs and One Belt One Road initiative are both forms of expansionist diplomacy. Trump’s withdraw from Asia and alienation of allied and neutral states is making that worse. Why should a developing country is centra Asia turn down a Chinese development loan when no western bank is knocking down their door to give them credit? Slapping a tariff on manufactured goods coming out of China won’t do anything to stop China in this regard.

3) American companies have a wide ranging set of criteria for when they turn over IP, and among them is not the mere presence of operating in China. Does China steal IP? Yes. Will tariffs stop it? No.

4) If the media doesn’t report on this stuff, where did you learn about it? Where did I learn about it? (Hint: the media, and in my case from going to work every day. I’m on the phone with colleagues and clients in APAC, EMEA, and LaTam everyday).

Just pause and listen to yourself. You’re arguing that Americans need to hurt ourselves economically to bend China to our will. That’s like putting a gun to your own head and telling your neighbor to stop or else.

[Firefly 35]

China, like similar countries needs growth to survive.  Deprive them of that and the country will fall to its knees.

[MegaChar]

On 9/6/2019 at 11:19 AM, Author_Alex said:

1) China has been a capitalist country since 1993. Chinese workers get paychecks from employers, not the government. The government doesn’t dictate what they eat or where they live. Frankly, the Cato Institute wishes the American economy was as de-regulated as China’s.

2) Everyone who pays attention knows China’s artificial reefs and One Belt One Road initiative are both forms of expansionist diplomacy. Trump’s withdraw from Asia and alienation of allied and neutral states is making that worse. Why should a developing country is centra Asia turn down a Chinese development loan when no western bank is knocking down their door to give them credit? Slapping a tariff on manufactured goods coming out of China won’t do anything to stop China in this regard.

3) American companies have a wide ranging set of criteria for when they turn over IP, and among them is not the mere presence of operating in China. Does China steal IP? Yes. Will tariffs stop it? No.

4) If the media doesn’t report on this stuff, where did you learn about it? Where did I learn about it? (Hint: the media, and in my case from going to work every day. I’m on the phone with colleagues and clients in APAC, EMEA, and LaTam everyday).

Just pause and listen to yourself. You’re arguing that Americans need to hurt ourselves economically to bend China to our will. That’s like putting a gun to your own head and telling your neighbor to stop or else.

I think I understand now why your saying those things.

You have worked in China where they have very strict rules on how to conduct yourself. You talking about the human rights violations or the intense censorship going on in China would get you banned from the country by the CCP if you are caught which could shut down your buissness.

 

I would feel pitty if there wasn't other options for your line of work but there is.

 

Sorry for derailing the discussion.

[Alex Bridges]

9 hours ago, MegaChar said:

I think I understand now why your saying those things.

You have worked in China where they have very strict rules on how to conduct yourself. You talking about the human rights violations or the intense censorship going on in China would get you banned from the country by the CCP if you are caught which could shut down your buissness.

 

I would feel pitty if there wasn't other options for your line of work but there is.

 

Sorry for derailing the discussion.

I’ve never set foot in China and have no material interests in the country.

I do have some good news for you, though: you will outgrow the know it all phase.

God bless, sweetheart.

[ppdude]

On 9/6/2019 at 2:19 PM, Alex Bridges said:

1) China has been a capitalist country since 1993. Chinese workers get paychecks from employers, not the government. The government doesn’t dictate what they eat or where they live. Frankly, the Cato Institute wishes the American economy was as de-regulated as China’s.

2) Everyone who pays attention knows China’s artificial reefs and One Belt One Road initiative are both forms of expansionist diplomacy. Trump’s withdraw from Asia and alienation of allied and neutral states is making that worse. Why should a developing country is centra Asia turn down a Chinese development loan when no western bank is knocking down their door to give them credit? Slapping a tariff on manufactured goods coming out of China won’t do anything to stop China in this regard.

3) American companies have a wide ranging set of criteria for when they turn over IP, and among them is not the mere presence of operating in China. Does China steal IP? Yes. Will tariffs stop it? No.

4) If the media doesn’t report on this stuff, where did you learn about it? Where did I learn about it? (Hint: the media, and in my case from going to work every day. I’m on the phone with colleagues and clients in APAC, EMEA, and LaTam everyday).

Just pause and listen to yourself. You’re arguing that Americans need to hurt ourselves economically to bend China to our will. That’s like putting a gun to your own head and telling your neighbor to stop or else.

1)  China is NOT capitalist. You cannot separate the state from the company. There are no stockholders. The CEO is named by the state; the CEO  doesn't  get there from owning the company or having a financial interest in it. CEOs are name by the state and implement one, three and five year plans given to them by the state. If a CEO is successful implementing those plans and achieving those plans, he gets to live. Not a nice place to be. The state determines where a person is placed, the kind of work performed, and the amount they are paid. They may get a company check, but it's written and paid by the state.

2) I can agree with that.

3) As to IP, American companies may have a range of options before turning it over. That doesn't mean that they are good options that benefit them; rather it's what they are giving up. There may be options but none are good. They are put in place by the state to benefit the state. Tarriffs are used to reform bad behavior and to punish it in hopes that good behavior will prevail.

We simply need to stop China from engaging in unfair trade practices and agreement violations. Disengaging from bad actors is good policy. It's like a wife beater, where we're the wife. We keep going back to get mistreated and beat-up over and over. At some point you say "no more." We've reached that point.'

Mainscream media doesn't help either. They are totally corrupt. Alternative media is much better. I go to OANN (One America New Network) to get straight, boring news that is stated without opinion. The who, what, where, when, why and how (aka facts). I've gotten to the point that I can't stand FOX News either. Too much left leaning opinion.

China is the world's worst polluter. They violate agreements between countries on a regular basis. They care not one wit about the health or welfare of their workers. Labor is a forced enterprise where the worker cannot choose where or what they do. It is assigned.

 

 

[Alex Bridges]

30 minutes ago, ppdude said:

1)  China is NOT capitalist. You cannot separate the sate from the company. There are no stockholders. The CEO is named by the gov't. They are answerable only to the gov't. The gov't gives them one, three and five year plans which they are to implement and produce results according to those plans. A CEO in China is in a bad spot if something goes wrong and cannot produce required results. Many a CEO is executed out back. No trail, no hearing, just a bullet in the head. They are scared and do not wish to be in that position.

It makes no matter what it says on the paycheck. Gov't is the ultimate payer.

2) I can agree with that.

3) As to IP, the Chinese gov't determines what may or may not be turned over to them. If the American company declines, then the ability to do business is restricted. Tarriffs can be used to combat their practices as a negotiating tool. They are used as a means to an end.

4) Being that they are communist and the state controls all. The state will not regulate itself. American business is subject to a myriad of regulations imposed on it by the gov't in response to special interests. Often times they are onerous and many make no sense. In China, the special interest is the state. So, yes, we wish we didn't have special interests creating regulations in order to further their own interests.

We simply need to stop China from engaging in unfair trade practices and agreement violations. Disengaging from bad actors is good policy. It's like a wife beater, where we're the wife. We keep going back to get mistreated and beat-up over and over. At some point you say "no more." We've reached that point.'

Mainscream media doesn't help either. They are totally corrupt. Alternative media is much better. I go to OANN (One America New Network) to get straight, boring news that is stated without opinion. The who, what, where, when, why and how (aka facts). I've gotten to the point that I can't stand FOX News either. Too much left leaning opinion.

China is the world's worst polluter. They violate agreements between countries on a regular basis. They care not one wit about the health or welfare of their workers. Labor is a forced enterprise where the worker cannot choose where or what they do. It is assigned.

 

 

My Chinese colleagues in Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong would be shocked to learn the Chinese government assigned them their job and that the government, not the same company that pays me and is owned by shareholders around the world, is paying them. Shocked, I tell you! Shocked!!!