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I probably made myself functionally incontinent - and I regret it

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5 hours ago, Snake4455101 said:

Does anyone know how to just become a bedweter so I domt have to have day time issues down the road?

You can't just become a bedwetter. It's caused by some underlying medical condition such as sleep apnea, infections, cancer etc.

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5 hours ago, dipper said:

You can't just become a bedwetter. It's caused by some underlying medical condition such as sleep apnea, infections, cancer etc.

That’s not true at all. I’m having great success after only 2 months of attempting. I’ve been wet for the last month and a half. Sure, it’s not permanent yet and requires drinking lots of water, and my bladder was already shrunken, but it can be done. It’s scary how easy it is. 

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On 4/15/2019 at 3:12 PM, dipper said:

Cool, I think I have urge IC too. Glad to hear i'm not the only one resorting to pull ups for this issue. Today in class I had to go real bad when the professor said he'll finish in 15 minutes but thankfully today I also wore pull ups which made me calmer. I actually managed to hold myself for twenty minutes until I reached the bathroom, although I did pee myself (rather a leak) a little just before I had time to remove the diaper. So they really do help a lot!

 I'm guessing you got oxybutinin or tolterodine? That's the medication i'm intending to get.

I think your quite young for daytime IC issues unless they are caused by medical issues. I didnt develop daytime urge IC until a few years ago and especially the last four or five years. Pullups are definitely a help and a security factor for me even though Im now on a med. 

17 hours ago, dipper said:

You can't just become a bedwetter. It's caused by some underlying medical condition such as sleep apnea, infections, cancer etc.

I think it can be caused by other things like medications too. And also can be caused by heavy alcohol use for people with  bladder control issues. I dont know for sure but I suspect people who did overage bedwetting when younger might be more likely to have it when their adults. And I read its more common for diabetics too. So I think theres a range of causes. Ive taken medications especially in the past for psychiatric illness that caused it or at least made it worse.

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I am going on 5+ years of wearing most night.  I don't think I'd pee the bed if I went without a diaper, but not sure.  Getting closer, but I still always wake up to pee.  May never get there.  I was not a bedwetter past the usual age.  Don't know what age I was dry at night.  Normal to early I think.

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Same here I have been wearing almost 4.5 years and I think only twice I peed while sleeping, my body wakes me and starts to pee almost as soon as I open my eyes or move to get up if I am going to pee any ways I wish my body would just pee and let me sleep though it since it gives me no time to make the bathroom any ways. 

 

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On 4/17/2019 at 5:54 AM, dipper said:

You can't just become a bedwetter. It's caused by some underlying medical condition such as sleep apnea, infections, cancer etc.

Adding my voice to the "Yes you can" list. It might even be more possible to train yourself to do this than for learning day-wetting. Healthy children become dry daytime before that is achieved at night so there's no reason one can't get their mind back to that point without going further. In reality, that's all that learned adult incontinence is- putting the mind back to where the signals of wetting went unnoticed and therefore unheeded. Which in time the physical body will follow. It's all a mental process which controls the physical processes.

Bettypooh

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43 minutes ago, Bettypooh said:

Adding my voice to the "Yes you can" list. It might even be more possible to train yourself to do this than for learning day-wetting. Healthy children become dry daytime before that is achieved at night so there's no reason one can't get their mind back to that point without going further. In reality, that's all that learned adult incontinence is- putting the mind back to where the signals of wetting went unnoticed and therefore unheeded. Which in time the physical body will follow. It's all a mental process which controls the physical processes.

Bettypooh

For me it’s just a matter of creating the possibility (extra water) and minimizing the discomfort (diaper).  Took practice, but now the combination virtually assures sleep wetting.  It’s been so long since I’ve gone to bed without the “setup”, don’t really know (or care) if it’s permanent.

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58 minutes ago, WBxx said:

For me it’s just a matter of creating the possibility (extra water) and minimizing the discomfort (diaper).  Took practice, but now the combination virtually assures sleep wetting.  It’s been so long since I’ve gone to bed without the “setup”, don’t really know (or care) if it’s permanent.

I just stopped trying to stay dry at night when my bedwetting came back. I settled back in to the habit so quickly. Somehow it just felt right to be a bedwetter again and still does.

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Re - bedwetting (secondary nocturnal enuresis) is fully obtainable, but it does have side effects.

One of the chemicals that is released during 'down time' is vasopressin which is an antidiuretic hormone and a nine amino acid peptide. The production of this hormone allows one to sleep without filling ones bladder to the need of voiding. We also release this hormone when we are tired / winding down / relaxing and not only during times of deep sleep. As a result, wetting while in ones' own bed asleep is a very specific set of circumstances that can be achieved via hypnosis and training - otherwise, one needs to be diapered / wearing pull-ups 24/7 to catch the times that we relax and void by reflex.

Re - OP / Trained incontinence and 100-200ml bladder volumn before reflex voiding. Dipper, I am sorry to state that it seems to me that your bladder has lost its elasticity = does not stretch / expand before voiding. This will take a number of years to reverse (3-5 years), and requires the same type of training one employed when training a toddler :

Nothing worn below the waist, and going to the bathroom every 30 mins, day 1, increase the frequency by 5mins per day (day 2, every 35 mins; day 3 every 40 mins etc) until the bladder relearns to stretch and the sphincters can withhold. 

Unfortunately, this regime is not condusive to the time demands of an adult - where he/she needs to interact outside ones own home. You admit that you had to void 3 times in a 2 hour period = max 40 mins holding time. In your case, dipper, you are now bladder incontinent which means diapers 24/7/365. You have the choice on whether you retrain yourself to be pull-up dependant or stay as you are. I doubt that you will ever get to the stage that you can reliably go without protection.

Another thing to be aware of is the state of repair of your sphincters. I suspect that your internal urinary sphincter is in working order, but your external urinary sphincter is damaged. That alone would cause you to void as soon as 100-200ml urine enters your bladder. The size of a relaxed unstretched empty bladder is different for everyone, and as soon as the bladder fills to the point in needs to stretch, the internal sphincter can open autonomically. Usually the external urinary sphincter locks closed - via contious control by sending the signal 'not to open' since the stretch sensors tell same to relax (open) when triggered by the stretching of the bladder.

If this is situation , in your case, I suspect then that you will never regain control without some form of surgery -  artifical sphincter. Catheter play can damage urinary sphincters beyond repair. Even in this case, one will need to wear protection 24/7/365 and leave same open in the evenings etc. Secondly, an artificial sphincter does effect, in males, sexual function.

All the above, I suggest that you communicate with your doctor in full. It might be better, in your case, to bite the bullet, and wear pull-ups / diapers 24/7/365 and change as need be.

TO ALL:

Infantile dependance on diapers 24/7/365 IS JUST THAT. An infant / baby, needs to be in diapers 24/7/365. Otherwise, there will be pee and poop on everything. The infant/baby does not intervene in its bodies needs - it lets it happen out of every orrifice and expects you to clean it up. An infant will wet and mess in a diaper and keep doing it. It does not try and hold anything even if the diaper is full and leaking everywhere. Parents here have seen their baby / child happliy playing with their poop after they took off their own diaper overnight / first thing in the morning.

If you train yourself to be diaper dependant, be sure that you are wearing a diaper 24/7/365. That is what it means. Yes, we all feel sympathy to dipper, but like us all, choices have consequences, most are permanant and irreversible.

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10 minutes ago, babykeiff said:

Re - bedwetting (secondary nocturnal enuresis) is fully obtainable, but it does have side effects.

One of the chemicals that is released during 'down time' is vasopressin which is an antidiuretic hormone and a nine amino acid peptide. The production of this hormone allows one to sleep without filling ones bladder to the need of voiding. We also release this hormone when we are tired / winding down / relaxing and not only during times of deep sleep. As a result, wetting while in ones' own bed asleep is a very specific set of circumstances that can be achieved via hypnosis and training - otherwise, one needs to be diapered / wearing pull-ups 24/7 to catch the times that we relax and void by reflex.

Re - OP / Trained incontinence and 100-200ml bladder volumn before reflex voiding. Dipper, I am sorry to state that it seems to me that your bladder has lost its elasticity = does not stretch / expand before voiding. This will take a number of years to reverse (3-5 years), and requires the same type of training one employed when training a toddler :

Nothing worn below the waist, and going to the bathroom every 30 mins, day 1, increase the frequency by 5mins per day (day 2, every 35 mins; day 3 every 40 mins etc) until the bladder relearns to stretch and the sphincters can withhold. 

Unfortunately, this regime is not condusive to the time demands of an adult - where he/she needs to interact outside ones own home. You admit that you had to void 3 times in a 2 hour period = max 40 mins holding time. In your case, dipper, you are now bladder incontinent which means diapers 24/7/365. You have the choice on whether you retrain yourself to be pull-up dependant or stay as you are. I doubt that you will ever get to the stage that you can reliably go without protection.

Another thing to be aware of is the state of repair of your sphincters. I suspect that your internal urinary sphincter is in working order, but your external urinary sphincter is damaged. That alone would cause you to void as soon as 100-200ml urine enters your bladder. The size of a relaxed unstretched empty bladder is different for everyone, and as soon as the bladder fills to the point in needs to stretch, the internal sphincter can open autonomically. Usually the external urinary sphincter locks closed - via contious control by sending the signal 'not to open' since the stretch sensors tell same to relax (open) when triggered by the stretching of the bladder.

If this is situation , in your case, I suspect then that you will never regain control without some form of surgery -  artifical sphincter. Catheter play can damage urinary sphincters beyond repair. Even in this case, one will need to wear protection 24/7/365 and leave same open in the evenings etc. Secondly, an artificial sphincter does effect, in males, sexual function.

All the above, I suggest that you communicate with your doctor in full. It might be better, in your case, to bite the bullet, and wear pull-ups / diapers 24/7/365 and change as need be.

TO ALL:

Infantile dependance on diapers 24/7/365 IS JUST THAT. An infant / baby, needs to be in diapers 24/7/365. Otherwise, there will be pee and poop on everything. The infant/baby does not intervene in its bodies needs - it lets it happen out of every orrifice and expects you to clean it up. An infant will wet and mess in a diaper and keep doing it. It does not try and hold anything even if the diaper is full and leaking everywhere. Parents here have seen their baby / child happliy playing with their poop after they took off their own diaper overnight / first thing in the morning.

If you train yourself to be diaper dependant, be sure that you are wearing a diaper 24/7/365. That is what it means. Yes, we all feel sympathy to dipper, but like us all, choices have consequences, most are permanant and irreversible.

Oh my god, if it's going to take years to retrain i'm going to be used to wear pull ups every day and my friends would have most likely already found out...hmm.  As it is right now, being totally without diaper is not possible as going to the bathroom every 30-60 minutes is disrupting my daily life (being on the bus, waiting in line, having an exam etc).

I think you're right about the external sphincter because when my bladder suddenly contracts it doesn't automatically clamp like it used to years ago. Now it just kinda flows out unless I contract hard enough to resist the bladder contraction.

Honestly it feels like such a hassle, and i'd much rather wear thin pull ups from now on, and maybe I can do some training while wearing them so I don't progress to having to pee every 15 minutes. 

Thank you for your advice!

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1 hour ago, dipper said:

Oh my god, if it's going to take years to retrain i'm going to be used to wear pull ups every day and my friends would have most likely already found out...hmm.  As it is right now, being totally without diaper is not possible as going to the bathroom every 30-60 minutes is disrupting my daily life (being on the bus, waiting in line, having an exam etc).

I think you're right about the external sphincter because when my bladder suddenly contracts it doesn't automatically clamp like it used to years ago. Now it just kinda flows out unless I contract hard enough to resist the bladder contraction.

Honestly it feels like such a hassle, and i'd much rather wear thin pull ups from now on, and maybe I can do some training while wearing them so I don't progress to having to pee every 15 minutes. 

Thank you for your advice!

dipper,

go see a good doctor / urologist. They can check out your sphincter function and if it is torn / damaged. It might have a hole in it that is causing the incontinence. If it is retrained / damaged beyond repair, pull-ups will be able to handle that.

"Oh my god, if it's going to take years to retrain" - that is if it is feasible.

Adult urine production is 800~2000ml per 24 hours (average) = 33~83ml per hour which is 50ml mean per hour.  You stated that you needed to void 3 times in a 2 hour period. Therefore, 2 hour production 66~166ml. Using the high figure, 166, divide that by three, it gives your bladder capacity at 55ml max (approx) before you void. Even the lightest inserts can handle that, but you may need to train your body not to hold / dribble.

'Progressing to pee every 15 minutes' is an advantage rather than a disadvantage. Therefore, you void in quantities of 20ml every fifteen minutes rather than 83ml every hour, or  300~400ml every four hours. Thin inserts can handle upto 100ml, which means that you need to change every 45mins to an hour. Thicker inserts handle 200-300ml, which will last you 2-3 hours if you are voiding in 20ml blocks or less. However, if you are voiding in 200-300ml blocks, a pad / diaper can easily get overloaded trying to absorb that amount in one go. 

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11 hours ago, babykeiff said:

dipper,

go see a good doctor / urologist. They can check out your sphincter function and if it is torn / damaged. It might have a hole in it that is causing the incontinence. If it is retrained / damaged beyond repair, pull-ups will be able to handle that.

"Oh my god, if it's going to take years to retrain" - that is if it is feasible.

Adult urine production is 800~2000ml per 24 hours (average) = 33~83ml per hour which is 50ml mean per hour.  You stated that you needed to void 3 times in a 2 hour period. Therefore, 2 hour production 66~166ml. Using the high figure, 166, divide that by three, it gives your bladder capacity at 55ml max (approx) before you void. Even the lightest inserts can handle that, but you may need to train your body not to hold / dribble.

'Progressing to pee every 15 minutes' is an advantage rather than a disadvantage. Therefore, you void in quantities of 20ml every fifteen minutes rather than 83ml every hour, or  300~400ml every four hours. Thin inserts can handle upto 100ml, which means that you need to change every 45mins to an hour. Thicker inserts handle 200-300ml, which will last you 2-3 hours if you are voiding in 20ml blocks or less. However, if you are voiding in 200-300ml blocks, a pad / diaper can easily get overloaded trying to absorb that amount in one go. 

Yeah 55 ml seems about right, that's when my bladder first starts contracting (50-100 ml). I think it's a disadvantage because I don't want to feel like I need to pee every 15-30 minutes. For this to be feasible i'd need to wear a diaper 24/7. 

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10 hours ago, dipper said:

Yeah 55 ml seems about right, that's when my bladder first starts contracting (50-100 ml). I think it's a disadvantage because I don't want to feel like I need to pee every 15-30 minutes. For this to be feasible i'd need to wear a diaper 24/7. 

Go see your doctor and get fully checked out.

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About 10 years ago, I trained my brain and bladder to become a bed wetter and have never regretted it.  I do have some urge incontinence issues and wet myself in the daytime, probably once or twice a week, but I really don't mind it.  I LOVE being a bed wetter so much!  I have recently gone back to wearing cloth diapers, they are so comfortable and I am happy not to send more to a landfill.  If I am worried about a daytime accident, I wear cotton wetting pants (Wearever) with plastic pants over them.  I just love everything there is about wetting!

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2 hours ago, bi-bedwetter said:

About 10 years ago, I trained my brain and bladder to become a bed wetter and have never regretted it.  I do have some urge incontinence issues and wet myself in the daytime, probably once or twice a week, but I really don't mind it.  I LOVE being a bed wetter so much!  I have recently gone back to wearing cloth diapers, they are so comfortable and I am happy not to send more to a landfill.  If I am worried about a daytime accident, I wear cotton wetting pants (Wearever) with plastic pants over them.  I just love everything there is about wetting!

I share your enthusiasm for bed wetting.  Waking wet with no memory is the ultimate.  Nothing bothers me the day after.  I’m at peace with the world.  Friends and colleagues have no idea.  I’m special.  I’ve regressed back to bed wetting and proud of it!!!

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What people may not know about reverting to full time diaper usage is the energy it saves.

To wet while asleep is to reduce / stop completely the production of vasprospressin. The side effect of this is that urine is highly diluted and the bladder fills (and empties autonomically) multiple times. As a result, the inner bladder walls do not need to repair the mild acidic damage and/or stretch to contain a 8-10 hour (500ml - 800ml volumn). As a result, one can fall into a much deeper and more relaxing sleep.

To facilitate the above, cloth diapers are advised as they seem to be the only type that can reliably contain these quanties with side sleepers and sleepers that move around. Cloth diapers can be made thicker without the compaction required of multiple disposable inserts. The bulk between ones legs physically remind the wearer of their dress that they wore as an infant. In our mind, the size difference between us now and that as an infant does not exist. The relative proportions we are aware of, so wearing a diaper that is as large on us in the same proportion to our size as a diaper is on a baby / infant, convinces us to behave accordingly.

When we revert to full incontinence, we stop using the energy to reduce bladder content (chemically), stop withholding the urine and stretching the bladder, stop withholding our bowels and allowing that to stretch (expand), stop forcing fully our lower intestine to reprocess digested food (stops the reverse perastatic action of the lower intestine), stop placing fecal bacteria from our bowels into our lower intestines, and generally improve our health.

Early humans were forrest dwellers where bladder and bowel continence was not required. What was required was speed and response, and carring ones pee / poop until a place could be found to place in would be carrying extra weight that could slow one down. The flight response causes one to void and vomit. One can see this in certain animals, when placed in a threat situation, they regurgitate the contents of their stomach and void bladder / bowels to reduce their weight so that they can escape.

Continence is a trained response for house dwelling. It is us trying to change genitics and nature to suit our whims. Even diapers / nappies were the French and English aristocracy hiding the fact that babies wet/mess. Infants were originally wrapped in linen / cotton that were changed weekly. (The infant would wet/mess in this and stay in it for weeks at a time) When they got older, they were allowed to run around naked. (this process is still carried out in some countries) Other countries used to wrap the bottom in large leaves. The roman Toga used to have a type of diaper embedded in same. As did the Thai zootzu. Other cultures used to either wrap the area to prevent voiding / leave the area open. Many behaviours and cultures we adopt today is copying the whims of English & French aristocracy - ie the lower/middle classes trying to be upper class by mimicing the aristocracy and/or church.

 

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On 4/20/2019 at 9:33 AM, WBxx said:

I share your enthusiasm for bed wetting.  Waking wet with no memory is the ultimate.  Nothing bothers me the day after.  I’m at peace with the world.  Friends and colleagues have no idea.  I’m special.  I’ve regressed back to bed wetting and proud of it!!!

I also trained myself to bed wet close to 20 years ago, in my early 20's.  It took me about a year.  It was great for about 10 years... and then I got married and now have a family.  Now, not so great.  I very hard to re-train myself to not wet at the same time my daughter was going through her potty training about 5-6 years ago, but failed.  As has been said so many times, 'Be careful what you wish for...'  Things that sound great at one stage of your life can be very different later.

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On 4/13/2019 at 2:05 PM, dipper said:

I've been measuring my urine output and frequency for the past week to get a sense of the severity of my problem. The conclusions i've made is that my bladder feels full at around 100 ml - 200 ml and I have to pee about once an hour. If I jump around like a kiddo I can hold mysel to 400 ml but i've also peed myself at that point. My bladder has become fully autonomous and contracts to empty on its own. If I have a diaper I don't have to breathe/relax like I used to do in order to pee. The bladder pushes the urine out reflexively like a baby. My ABDL side of me is obviously excited about this because i'm finally a diaper dependent baby, but it's affected my life quite severely the past year.

I can no longer function without diapers and i'm debating whether to start with pull ups in order to retrain my bladder. I'll also visit the doctor soon to see what I can do to regain my continence. As of right now when i've had oral examinations in the university i've had to excuse myself to the bathroom three (!) times (during a 2h period) which obviously raised suspicions and laughter among both friends and professors.

I believe this is all self inflected injuries from years of foley catheters and diapers that has trained my bladder to reflexively contract, diminished its capacity and weakened my sphincters.

I cannot continue without diapers in my daily life now and it sucks. I hope you guys think twice before wanting incontinence / functional incontinence as its something i've always wanted but now i'm sad that I can't live my life without fear of being far away from a bathroom.

How long did you use catheters before this started to happen

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