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I probably made myself functionally incontinent - and I regret it


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52 minutes ago, username said:

I have found that not only do I dribble smallish amounts, I also feel like I’m weeping urine in  very small amounts, I can feel the trickle at the end of my penis. I still have control but am very practiced keeping my sphincter completely relaxed.

Mmm, "wet willy" syndrome.  I've found that the tip of my penis has been wet a few times this week when changing and I didn't really expect it to be.  It wouldn't even qualify as dripping and i'm not 100% sure if it's leaking or just fluid transfer from the outgoing nappy.  I'll keep an eye on it.

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3 hours ago, Dubious said:

Humans are actually quite stupid when you think about it as we have no control over most of our body 

 

Like cows and oysters, we are as smart as we need to be to do what we do even if what we do is to reflect upon our own apparent stupidity ?

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/17/2019 at 5:21 PM, secretdesire said:

That’s not true at all. I’m having great success after only 2 months of attempting. I’ve been wet for the last month and a half. Sure, it’s not permanent yet and requires drinking lots of water, and my bladder was already shrunken, but it can be done. It’s scary how easy it is. 

Do you mind sharing how you did? I have been struggling for years to induce bedwetting. It has only been on occasions where I have been drinking more before going to bed, that I have woken up slightly during nighttime and been wetting myself, and then drifting back to sleep. When it happens, when I wet during nighttime, I do it quickly and seconds later I'm sleeping again.

I do hope one day, not waking up anymore during the act, but only wake in the morning to find my diaper soaked, and myself well rested.

 

So tips to become a premium bedwetter as mentioned in the book "the joy of bedwetting" will be appreciated :)

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On 4/20/2019 at 2:58 PM, bi-bedwetter said:

About 10 years ago, I trained my brain and bladder to become a bed wetter and have never regretted it.  I do have some urge incontinence issues and wet myself in the daytime, probably once or twice a week, but I really don't mind it.  I LOVE being a bed wetter so much!  I have recently gone back to wearing cloth diapers, they are so comfortable and I am happy not to send more to a landfill.  If I am worried about a daytime accident, I wear cotton wetting pants (Wearever) with plastic pants over them.  I just love everything there is about wetting!

I love my wetting too.

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I've messed my bladder up and can't pee normal in a toilet anymore and I pee fine in a diaper. It also hurts to hold it and I have to go more often than most people. I am not incontinent but I have shrunk my bladder size and now it feels uncomfortable to hold it. I also wet sometimes without thinking about it and I am fine with it. I will feel an urge and I just go and I can drink fluids if I want and not have to worry about my bladder because I wear proper protection and I can go all day without a change. I guess what I am saying is I can't really relate to what the OP is saying because diapers are not an issue for me. 

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On 4/18/2019 at 9:09 PM, babykeiff said:

Re - bedwetting (secondary nocturnal enuresis) is fully obtainable, but it does have side effects.

One of the chemicals that is released during 'down time' is vasopressin which is an antidiuretic hormone and a nine amino acid peptide. The production of this hormone allows one to sleep without filling ones bladder to the need of voiding. We also release this hormone when we are tired / winding down / relaxing and not only during times of deep sleep. As a result, wetting while in ones' own bed asleep is a very specific set of circumstances that can be achieved via hypnosis and training - otherwise, one needs to be diapered / wearing pull-ups 24/7 to catch the times that we relax and void by reflex. 

 Re - OP / Trained incontinence and 100-200ml bladder volumn before reflex voiding. Dipper, I am sorry to state that it seems to me that your bladder has lost its elasticity = does not stretch / expand before voiding. This will take a number of years to reverse (3-5 years), and requires the same type of training one employed when training a toddler : 

And how can you stop the production of this anti diuretic hormone? If I just knew I would do it immediately.

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I've got 3 nights now with Mummy away, so I'm sleeping in nappies.  The problem I have is not being able to wee when I'm in bed lying down, even when my bladder's full.  So I'm working on that first, trying to get to where I wake up to wet, but then can just go, without any problems.  At the moment, I wake, but then usually I don't get any urge to wet, and can't wet unless I sit up or get up, however full my bladder is.  This happened last night, so I tried something that worked to some extent in the past, which was to lie on my back with an extra pillow, so my head was looking a bit forward, if that explains it properly.  Then, the urge to wet came OK, and I wet a small amount repeatedly over the next couple of hours, slumbering in between.

Anyway I'll try this again tonight, on my back with the extra pillow all night this time, and see how it goes.  If I can sort this out, I can then start thinking about whether I could wet in my sleep, but I'll have to persuade Mummy to have me in nappies every night before I can go there.  Unless I wet accidentally before that of course, in which case she wouldn't be very happy!

I'd be interested to know how this fits in with the vasopressin mechanism though.  As far as I can see, vasopressin just reduces how much wee you have in your bladder, and doesn't affect whether you get the urge or have the ability to wet.  Presumably that's another mechanism.

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I think I have a working vasopressin mechanism because I will produce LESS wee at night but less does not mean none.  Peak pee production seems to occur during mid-morning and it can appear to be out of proportion to fluids consumed after arising.  I suspect it’s the vasopressin wearing off and homeostasis kicking in.

Regardless of this, prior to 24/7 nappies, getting into my 50s, my bladder would usually wake me around 4am at which point I had a dilemma.  If I got up to pee, my body decided it was “wake up” time and it would be highly unlikely that I could go back to sleep.  Alternately, if I chose NOT to get up to pee, I would doze fitfully instead of sleeping properly because I had a full bladder.  Usually I chose “plan B” and as such, would only get 5 – 6 hours of undisrupted sleep per night.

Obviously for the last few months, this problem has simply not existed and I’ve been getting better sleep.

Thanks to 4 months of 24/7, I pee very frequently but with small volumes.  I will stir and become aware of mild pee urges very frequently at night (2 – 3 times) which I solve by simply wetting my nappy before very promptly drifting back off to sleep.  On the odd occasion, I think I’ve actually fallen back asleep whilst wetting myself as I can recall starting but have zero recollection of finishing.

I don’t think the inability to pee in bed is related to vasopressin though.  For me, pee urges are somewhat muted laying down and I think this is simple physics but there is still pee there.  I think it’s a mindset thing.  A lot of people struggle to pee in bed.

Back in the day when my partner used to participate, she struggled to wet herself in bed but eventually learned through progressively conditioning herself but it was never super-easy for her like it is for me.

A simple vasopressin test would be to climb into bed during the day and see what happens.  Take the vasopressin out of the equation.

As for wetting whilst asleep, it’s not really an objective for me but as the degree of wakefulness associated with peeing at night decreases, I could envisage it happening.  There have been a few times that whilst I’m confident I awoke to pee, my recollection is very, very hazy and in the morning I wake up with a wet nappy and an empty bladder which is good enough for me.

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On 5/18/2019 at 5:21 AM, Inconito said:

And how can you stop the production of this anti diuretic hormone? If I just knew I would do it immediately.

One does not have any direct control on their production of any chemical... the body reacts to the situation it finds itself in. What one has to do is create the senario where the body will react in the way you want it to - ie thick warm bulky diapers, well creamed (baby cream on area) and plastic pants. Change into this diaper about 1-2 hours before going to bed. This diaper can handle 12-15 hours, so it doesn't matter if it is wet before you get into bed. In the morning, it will be wetter (whether you woke up during the night to wet, or you wet while asleep doesn't really matter, unless you recall waking up, you will never know. Your mind will work it out that it is costly to wake to wet, and you will eventually stay in a deeper sleep while you wet. Since your mind will have decided that the diaper can handle this, you might begin pooping in your diapers as you sleep also. As a result, whatever you place in your diapers overnight will not be a problem. Wear the same thick bulky diapers until 10am, and change into another set of thick warm bulky diapers. Change diapers by the clock every 8-10 hours, and forget about you needs to pee/poop. As a result, whatever you place in your diapers will not be a problem. Your body will void when it needs to. All you have to do is when the feeling comes, ignore it.  It will not be long before your body reverts to wetting and messing as soon as it needs to without informing you (your conscious mind) as it is not important, nor do you have to do anything to help / prevent this.

At this stage, your body will balance the water level in you body so well, that you will wet as soon as you drink (without being aware of same) and will poop during or shortly after eating each meal - the same bladder/bowel behaviour of a baby.

Since you will have no reason to retain pee/poop, your body will stop producing the anti diuretic hormone to conserve its energy.

To obtain the above needs time, diet, increased water intake and a mindset change to accept that you are a baby who doesn't care if they are clean & dry or wet & messy - diapers will be changed at a schedule that you are used to - ie every 6-8 hours

 

Certain milestones you might notice

  • You wet when you stand (the weight of your internal organs press on your bladder that causes it to void)
  • You wet when you run water
  • You wet while drinking.
  • You poop during / shortly after breakfast yet didn't know you needed to.
  • You poop after a short walk.
  • Poop slides out when you fart
  • You notice your diaper messy only when changing.
  • You forget when you wet / messed
  • You notice that your diaper is squishy but don't recall wetting same.

 

Since you will be wearing and wetting as / when needed, you will reach the level of baby bladder/bowel control before your conscious mind is told. At this stage, you can revert to the normal thinner disposable diapers.

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On 5/19/2019 at 1:25 AM, oznl said:

A simple vasopressin test would be to climb into bed during the day and see what happens.  Take the vasopressin out of the equation.

This test WILL fail. When one* sleeps, one produces vasopressin. There is no direct way to effect the level despite doctors prescribing same in tablet form to bed wetters as a way to stop their bed wetting. This stops the bed wetting for 2-5 days ) before the vasopressin balance is re-established and the bedwetting re-occurs. Since the body has reduced its own vasprossin production, the bed wetting is even worse - ie as the child's conscious level drops, (tired and dozing) the child is liable to wet itself since the sphincters are now in a state of relaxation and all urine produced will be voided. As a result, the normal puberty (change of nerve and muscles relating to urinary control) that effects close to 85% of the population as bedwetting becomes a more acute problem that requires diapers / medical intervention.

If a mechanic seen a chip on your window and tried to fix it with a hammer, and then said that you need a new window... would you be happy. That is exactly what medical science is doing to children with a bed wetting issue.

 

*Toilet trained / dependant individual

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14 hours ago, babykeiff said:

This test WILL fail. When one* sleeps, one produces vasopressin. There is no direct way to effect the level despite doctors prescribing same in tablet form to bed wetters as a way to stop their bed wetting.

I may have been unclear here.  Stroller was interested to know if his inability to urinate in bed at night was due to vasopressin (I doubt) or simply his supine position (more likely I think).  The experiment was for him to lay in bed during the day whilst awake and attempt to urinate.  If he encounters a similar block, it cannot be vasopressin to blame (unless he lay on the bed for a long time and got sleepy and made some).

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What Stroller needs to do is get used to voiding in any position. There is a thread here that states to do same, get into a bath (naked) and try to void in any position. That is consciously trying to affect voiding which is contrary to the autonomic voiding that ABDLs are aiming for. Instead, what one needs to do is wear a thick bulky cloth diaper and plastic pants. That means the diaper can handle everything from a dribble to a complete flood. As a result, the consctious mind will accept not to retain urine and will revert to the automatic voiding process of pre toilet-trained.

It is not the sphincters / bladder one has to teach to void, it is the mindset one has to change. The body will adapt.

Wetting when laying down (in bed) is all about confidence, and not control. Diapers leak (no matter how good they are)... and one needs to create the situation that a leaky diaper / wet bed is not an issue that causes discomfort. The thicker the diaper (cloth), the less likely it is to leak. Laying on a cotton bed protector that is on top of a mattress protector will ensure that even if you pour a gallon of water on the bed, the mattress will not get affected is a good way to convince the mind that there is no consequences to wetting when laying down.

To achieve diaper dependance needs one to remove the issues that triggered the toilet training. Once this is done, the second part will happen almost instantly, while the bladder and bowels will shrink thus ensuring ones need for diapers.

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