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BIG LIE in The Joy of bedwetting


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In his book "The Joy of bedwetting" ,Forrest Grant keeps lecturing the reader about the need to live in an environment drenched with urine that you never (or very seldom) clean, including a pee-stained matress., if you want to ever achieve nocturnal enuresis...

The reality that I have experienced at following that route is that it is extremely unhealthy to sleep regularly  in a pee-wet bedding which just dries in the day but is not regularly washed.

I am now enduring my second urinary infection in the night_time diaper training that I"ve been following in the last 7 months, and this one is particularly painful, making me strongly doubt my initial choice.

Isn't the simple well-being of a painfree life infinitely more precious than realising a kink ?

Shouldn't I rather limit that kink to risk-free sessions at home rather than seeking a nocturnal incontinence which might ruin my health and make my whole life pain-ridden and miserable ?

Anyway, that living-in-never-cleaned-pee business of Forrest Grant 's is just a dangerous load of rubish, and I'm using that word only to remain polite...

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I have a unique perspective on this in my birth family our bedroom was the unfinished attic,the walls had no sheetrock .my sister wet the bed her entire life no diapers no rubber sheets it stank to high heaven  and that aroma permeates everything from clothes to hair.so if this is your kink after a week or so it gets nasty to be around .I thru illness as an adult am incontinent and sure I have my diaper supplies payed out in every room but I go out of my way to insure my clothes ,hair,and body do not smell like an amonia factory exploded,wear diapers,use diapers,use diapers in bed even but don't destroy there ev eryrhint you have worked for to reek of amonia,you can wet the diaper as much as you want and not stink! And I wear cloth with rubber pants or bloomers primarily .once you wet a cloth diaper you are wet until you change it ,and it's not like a disposable that the center and some small wing area absorbs the entire garment absorbs everywhere any part not covered by rubber or plastic pants will wick the urine to your clothes or bedding and if you don't like cloth IC/bedwetting is probably not for you because side sleepers have almost zero chance of not making a mess in disposables.

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I read the book, and I understood where he was coming from.   It wasn't my thing.   He enjoys and takes pride in completely soaking a bed.  To me, it seems unusual, but then I'm a guy who willingly chooses to wear a diaper every single night and do most of his voids in those diapers.  For a vast majority of adult men- that's super weird.  Whatever floats your boat, assuming it doesn't harm others.

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How can I keep urinary infections at bay if I go on regularly wetting my diapers at night ?

Urinary infections are way too painful and I'd rather quit my kink than endure them.

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7 hours ago, Cruiser 03 said:

I have a unique perspective on this in my birth family our bedroom was the unfinished attic,the walls had no sheetrock .my sister wet the bed her entire life no diapers no rubber sheets it stank to high heaven  and that aroma permeates everything from clothes to hair.so if this is your kink after a week or so it gets nasty to be around .I thru illness as an adult am incontinent and sure I have my diaper supplies payed out in every room but I go out of my way to insure my clothes ,hair,and body do not smell like an amonia factory exploded,wear diapers,use diapers,use diapers in bed even but don't destroy there ev eryrhint you have worked for to reek of amonia,you can wet the diaper as much as you want and not stink! And I wear cloth with rubber pants or bloomers primarily .once you wet a cloth diaper you are wet until you change it ,and it's not like a disposable that the center and some small wing area absorbs the entire garment absorbs everywhere any part not covered by rubber or plastic pants will wick the urine to your clothes or bedding and if you don't like cloth IC/bedwetting is probably not for you because side sleepers have almost zero chance of not making a mess in disposables.

I know all about the smell of bedwetting. I grew up with it. My room always stank from my nightly wetting.

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45 minutes ago, Totophe said:

How can I keep urinary infections at bay if I go on regularly wetting my diapers at night ?

Urinary infections are way too painful and I'd rather quit my kink than endure them.

First thing is to get a new bed. Then start wearing a diaper with a booster with a good PUL covering. Lastly throw that book away and have a good nights rest. Losing control will take care of itself

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Many of us on here want to eventually obtain nighttime as well as daytime IC, but that does;t mean we want to sleep on a filithy smells soaking mattress. As Icondl says were thick diaper and extra pad and plastic pants on top.

No-one wants to get a urinary infection

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Many years ago my old uncovered mattresses had large urine stains from leaky nappies, on both sides. When it came time to get rid I couldn't just get somebody to take it to the tip (I don't own a car) I literally had to wake up at 3am in the morning and drag it around the corner from my house (I live in a high residential area) and dump it as it was just too embarrassing to expose my piss stained mattress to people. Them urine stains were that obvious. 

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There is absolutly no basis to the claim of Forrest Grant that exposing one to the smell of stale urine will convince the mind that it is ok to add to that. That concept is contary to known human behaviour. Most of the litrature produced on that site is in the realms of fantasy, not reality, and aimed at the uneducated.

Urine, and its aroma is an aphrodisiac. What I mean by this is that humans, from the aroma of anothers sweat and urine can sense how fertile the mate could be. We act on this subcontiously.

A developing baby, in the womb, urinates almost constantly which makes up a large portion of the amniotic fluid it is in. When it is born, the developed world places same in a diaper. The baby is not incontinent (a common myth), it is unaware of what processes to follow when it needs to urinate. As a result, prior to urinating, it fusses for attention. The baby learns, from encouragement prior to voiding and praise after the fact, to wet / soil its diaper. Due to the small bladder capacity, this occurs enough times that the baby is almost constantly in a damp / wet diaper. As a result, the baby and developing adult, adds to their mind  'a wet diaper is no need for attention however wet and/or cold bed and/or clothes needs attention' and 'when it needs to wet/mess, do so'. A baby is trained to be diaper dependant.

This concept is supressed / reversed during toilet training and one of the reasons such process is so confusing and stressing to the baby/child. This stressful time is supressed by the developing mind, so most of us find it difficult to recall the toilet training years unless it has failed. This creates another problem, if one tries to toilet train a fully developed mind, the chance of failure is extremely high due to the stresses involved. I know, and humbly appologize and beg for forgiveness for suggesting same in this thread

For the adult to obtain the desired result of 'not being woke up due to need to wet' that is 'need to wet has process = wet diaper' the toilet training has to be reversed and the mind needs to be convinced that it is in the exact same situation it was as a chronological baby = warm thick diapers - same scale as you wore as a baby; plastic protected, baby powder smell warm dry safe bed; no feedback of leaks etc to the mind; state of diaper not important; need to urinate almost continously.

There is no set of circumstances, bar those with a spinal cord injury, that can exist where your mind does not know that you are wetting and or messing. After all, it is your mind that attempts to controls your environment. More accurate, it is your minds perception that attempts to dictate what information is recieved. You need to convince your mind. The body does what it is told by the mind, and if the mind does not give the instruction, the body does nothing.

Secondly, the mind is split between the contious and the subcontious. You are fully aware of what is in your contious mind, and attempt to control this - you are wasting your time. It is the subcontious mind that controls everything. You, in the contious mind,  just think that you are.

Back on topic, obtain the goal of 'not being woke up due to need to wet' and you can see how one can attain same, or trick the mind to comply.

 

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16 hours ago, username said:

Many years ago my old uncovered mattresses had large urine stains from leaky nappies, on both sides. When it came time to get rid I couldn't just get somebody to take it to the tip (I don't own a car) I literally had to wake up at 3am in the morning and drag it around the corner from my house (I live in a high residential area) and dump it as it was just too embarrassing to expose my piss stained mattress to people. Them urine stains were that obvious. 

Most dumped mattresses I have seen have lots of urine stains on them. 

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I’d have to preface comment with the disclaimer that I have not read this book.

Personally, I would not find climbing into a cold pee-wet bed to be anything except unpleasant although I can understand why your brain would need to be “comfortable” with wetting in bed before permitting you to pee in your sleep.

I’m a little bit puzzled as to the UTI vector at play with bedwetting though.  Is it that there are bacteria in damp bedding that can somehow migrate back up the male urethra?  In that case, wouldn’t just a dry pair of underpants or pyjama pants before retiring be enough to mitigate that risk?  Sure, you will wet them later but that pee will be fresh, clean pee.

I’ve spent months in wet nappies at night and never had a UTI.  I didn’t think male anatomy was particularly vulnerable to “back-haul” traffic up the urethra in its default state.

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7 hours ago, oznl said:

I’d have to preface comment with the disclaimer that I have not read this book.

 

Personally, I would not find climbing into a cold pee-wet bed to be anything except unpleasant although I can understand why your brain would need to be “comfortable” with wetting in bed before permitting you to pee in your sleep.

 

I’m a little bit puzzled as to the UTI vector at play with bedwetting though.  Is it that there are bacteria in damp bedding that can somehow migrate back up the male urethra?  In that case, wouldn’t just a dry pair of underpants or pyjama pants before retiring be enough to mitigate that risk?  Sure, you will wet them later but that pee will be fresh, clean pee.

 

I’ve spent months in wet nappies at night and never had a UTI.  I didn’t think male anatomy was particularly vulnerable to “back-haul” traffic up the urethra in its default state.

 

Maybe some people are more prone than others. I have wet the bed most of my life and never had a UTI

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I have been IC 25years and self cathing 4 X's a day 11 years 3 x a day prior ,the infections I have had have always been hospital Foley aquired .

I think the OP is making a false association between diapers and infection ,if there was a risk after 25 years of diapers 24/7/366 I would know it better than my name,I honestly believe it is coincindental kinda like a person who associates a green car with  car accident because there car is green,relax take it easy don't stress over your need or want for protection .

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Im a diapered bedwetter.  Its not hard at all to keep my bed blankest and even pajamas  pees free....   my diaper really leak anymore since i have trained my self to wet in bed.   I pee little and ofter.... flooding your diaper causes leaks....    its like getting up.in the morning in warm dry bedding, wet diapers and a empty bladder 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
I have a unique perspective on this in my birth family our bedroom was the unfinished attic,the walls had no sheetrock .my sister wet the bed her entire life no diapers no rubber sheets it stank to high heaven  and that aroma permeates everything from clothes to hair.so if this is your kink after a week or so it gets nasty to be around .I thru illness as an adult am incontinent and sure I have my diaper supplies payed out in every room but I go out of my way to insure my clothes ,hair,and body do not smell like an amonia factory exploded,wear diapers,use diapers,use diapers in bed even but don't destroy there ev eryrhint you have worked for to reek of amonia,you can wet the diaper as much as you want and not stink! And I wear cloth with rubber pants or bloomers primarily .once you wet a cloth diaper you are wet until you change it ,and it's not like a disposable that the center and some small wing area absorbs the entire garment absorbs everywhere any part not covered by rubber or plastic pants will wick the urine to your clothes or bedding and if you don't like cloth IC/bedwetting is probably not for you because side sleepers have almost zero chance of not making a mess in disposables.
Growing up I wet almost nightly and never gained full control over my bladder. My parents didn't have me wear protection so my bedding and my bed always smelled. But now that I'm incontinent and wear some form of protection 24/7 l keep my bed protected and the smell down to a minimum.

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How can I keep urinary infections at bay if I go on regularly wetting my diapers at night ?
Urinary infections are way too painful and I'd rather quit my kink than endure them.
I do know that keeping yourself hydrated will help with UTI'S.
I have had several of them but it's been about a year since my last one so drinking more water will help keep the pipes clean. I will have a couple of cups of coffee (I just can't give that up) in the morning along with drinking water. You will pee more and you will probably need to change your diaper often but that always depends on the absorbency of your diaper.

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I do know that keeping yourself hydrated will help with UTI'S.
I have had several of them but it's been about a year since my last one so drinking more water will help keep the pipes clean. I will have a couple of cups of coffee (I just can't give that up) in the morning along with drinking water. You will pee more and you will probably need to change your diaper often but that always depends on the absorbency of your diaper.

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Coffee is a natural "bladder irritant" so it can you make you urinate more, the good news is coffee has unique health benefits not attributed to other things, and at its most basic level is water , a net gain of additional water is still a gain (unless were talking salt water of the ocean variety then it dehydrates) so you may urinate more with coffee but that's good the more diluted your urine is the better , a quick check is color the closer to clear the better , your urine is a mixture of water & waste excess acids and such the more diluted the better,if you are IC a few more diaper changes a day won't hurt and the increased volume will help ward of the UTIS ,so enjoy your coffee ,i drink decaf and the pot runs from morning till night , i use adult insulated sippy cups they look like travel mugs ,24 oz and my coffee travels with me , hot and ready ,i am a heavy drinker like a pot a day , but being decaf no ups downs or jitters ,

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not really sure what you're trying to point out is a lie here. While not a great idea from a hygiene standpoint, it certainly worked for me. I had an old mattress I was going to throw out and I've always been into bedwetting, so I just wet the bed for a week or two straight and slept in it. Started sleepwetting no matter what I was wearing, and it took months to get back to normal. Still sleep wet once every couple months for another year or so. I'm not sure how I was able to train myself that fast, maybe there is just something about not caring about your bed at all... when you're diapered there's always the thought in the back of your mind whether you recognize it or not, that there is some capacity to your diaper that you'll have to deal with at some point. Since then I've tried to trigger the same sleepwetting (while diapered, now) but haven't been able to get the same results.

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6 hours ago, ryan87 said:

Not really sure what you're trying to point out is a lie here. While not a great idea from a hygiene standpoint, it certainly worked for me. I had an old mattress I was going to throw out and I've always been into bedwetting, so I just wet the bed for a week or two straight and slept in it. Started sleepwetting no matter what I was wearing, and it took months to get back to normal. Still sleep wet once every couple months for another year or so. I'm not sure how I was able to train myself that fast, maybe there is just something about not caring about your bed at all... when you're diapered there's always the thought in the back of your mind whether you recognize it or not, that there is some capacity to your diaper that you'll have to deal with at some point. Since then I've tried to trigger the same sleepwetting (while diapered, now) but haven't been able to get the same results.

It is all about being totally relaxed and accepting your bed will suffer because you are a bedwetter.

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On 2/16/2019 at 4:25 AM, ryan87 said:

Not really sure what you're trying to point out is a lie here. While not a great idea from a hygiene standpoint, it certainly worked for me. I had an old mattress I was going to throw out and I've always been into bedwetting, so I just wet the bed for a week or two straight and slept in it. Started sleepwetting no matter what I was wearing, and it took months to get back to normal. Still sleep wet once every couple months for another year or so. I'm not sure how I was able to train myself that fast, maybe there is just something about not caring about your bed at all... when you're diapered there's always the thought in the back of your mind whether you recognize it or not, that there is some capacity to your diaper that you'll have to deal with at some point. Since then I've tried to trigger the same sleepwetting (while diapered, now) but haven't been able to get the same results.

Ryan,

the reason you bedwet now is not from the smell of the bed, it is from your mind getting convinced that a wet bed is no need for alarm. You state same from your perception of the old mattress - something you were going to dispose of.

A large number of people suffer from broken sleep / inability to sleep the first night that they are away from their usual bed - ie on holidays / visiting / away on work etc. This is due to the different sounds and smells. Since one is not used to the environment, the 'fight / flight' reflex keeps getting triggered.

The same 'relax' reflex happens in reverse to you in your own home with a mattress that is already ruined. However, it is not the wet mattress that is the trigger, it is the fact that there is no loss / cost to wetting same.

This relax and wet reflex can easily be obtained with a plastic coated mattress, but it is accelerated due to the sounds - the same sounds of childhood. This is what you needed to 'correctly' trigger you. In posts, I have added noisy plastic pants and thick cloth diapers - as a way to convince ones mind that wetting / messing while awake/asleep is not a reason for concern.

In a simple view, Forrest Grant 'The Joy of Bedwetting' is correct, but not for Forrest Grants' knowledge and skills. If one keeps wishing something, one might get lucky as anything is possible. Science is much more accurate than that. Forrest Grants' concepts are more fantasy and chance than factual.

One needs to convince ones mind that a wet/messy diaper will never leak and ruin an expensive mattress / chairs etc. Do that often enough, and bladder capacity reduces to 50ml or less which means that disposable diapers can handle overnight. (disposable diapers handle close to maximum when wet in small quantities many times over time rather than large quantities once or twice. Try it yourself - 50ml every 1/2 hour slowly poured on 5ml/min - use a syringe - over a 8 hour period  TTL 800ml OR 300ml every 3 hours 30ml/min. The diaper will leak before the second 300ml is fully entered into it, yet will hold close to 1200ml at a 5ml/min rate) 

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