Is AB play similar to disability play.

[mamabug]

5 minutes ago, rosalie.bent said:

I rather obviously did not choose to respond with a detailed description of the model. I maintain that AB/DL/RP is NOT a paraphilia which is why it has been so hoplessy treated and discussed in the past.

Our attraction to diapers is largely as ATTACHMENT OBJECTS, not purely sexual objects. For a few that may be true and that is why my model permits greata variation on the mix of drivers for wearing diapers.

It doesn't matter if it isn't a majority of the people (which I disagree with, I've met several people where this fetish is pretty much 100% sexual and diapers are only a sexual thing and not because of certain attachments, For me, that is the case. They are 100% sexual to me.) but even if that was the case - you can't point out that it isn't paraphilia when to a bunch of people, it certainly is. You could have said "ABDL" isn't always paraphilia, but you pretty much rejected it as such. 

You can't say that ABDL is phycological regressive when to a bunch of people (mostly the DLs/mommies/daddies/AK/LB/LG) where it is not regressive. 

[rosalie.bent]

5 minutes ago, mamabug said:

It doesn't matter if it isn't a majority of the people (which I disagree with, I've met several people where this fetish is pretty much 100% sexual and diapers are only a sexual thing and not because of certain attachments, For me, that is the case. They are 100% sexual to me.) but even if that was the case - you can't point out that it isn't paraphilia when to a bunch of people, it certainly is. You could have said "ABDL" isn't always paraphilia, but you pretty much rejected it as such. 

You can't say that ABDL is phycological regressive when to a bunch of people (mostly the DLs/mommies/daddies/AK/LB/LG) where it is not regressive. 

If you look at the graphic for our model of Diaper Attraction, you can see how it is possible for some to have no regressive drivers. That is the point in having a model that actually works and fits everyone.

And once again, it is NOT a paraphilia. How exactly do you describe wearing diapers as 'extreme or dangerous'?

I find some irony in you post (not your fault!). I have been repeatedly accused of describing ABDL according to our own experience and nothing else while actually spending 8 years of research and extensive writing on the topic based on information from thousands of ABDLs. And here you are quoting your own experience and nothing more. You could do well to learn that there are MILLIONS of ABDLs and we are all quite different, but we do fit into the model rather well.

One aside is that I often hear ABDL people say they had no babyish or diaper related feelings as children although once questioned in detail, find they did, but it was light and considered insignificant by them at the time.  The seeds of REgressive AB can be very small, but they do indeed grow and sometimes grow very powerfully.

[mamabug]

6 minutes ago, rosalie.bent said:

If you look at the graphic for our model of Diaper Attraction, you can see how it is possible for some to have no regressive drivers. That is the point in having a model that actually works and fits everyone.

And once again, it is NOT a paraphilia. How exactly do you describe wearing diapers as 'extreme or dangerous'?

I find some irony in you post (not your fault!). I have been repeatedly accused of describing ABDL according to our own experience and nothing else while actually spending 8 years of research and extensive writing on the topic based on information from thousands of ABDLs. And here you are quoting your own experience and nothing more. You could do well to learn that there are MILLIONS of ABDLs and we are all quite different, but we do fit into the model rather well.

One aside is that I often hear ABDL people say they had no babyish or diaper related feelings as children although once questioned in detail, find they did, but it was light and considered insignificant by them at the time.  The seeds of REgressive AB can be very small, but they do indeed grow and sometimes grow very powerfully.

2

 I only highlighted where it said abnormal sexual desire, it then said TYPICALLY those that are extreme or dangerous. They are not always exclusive and as I said, if you dug a bit deeper, it consists of object attraction too and diapers are objects after all.

But, I'm not? I only stated my own experiences to put a pin in your point that it is not paraphillia since that is the case for me and several people that I've met through the years. Everything else that I've said is based on my experience of just talking to people, listening to their stories and it helps that I'm not a typical person that fits into ABDL so I'm very open-minded when it comes to hearing other people's thoughts and feelings about ABDL (I find it quite interesting as we try to understand why we like the things we like and why we are the way we are)

I'm not trying to discredit you and your research, but when you have people tell you something and you INSIST it's not true, perhaps the better option is to listen? Maybe you'll learn something new.

As I never heard of the trinity thing before and I do quite agree with that. See! Learned something new! 

I agree that most AB's are regressive - but I don't believe that all are (and some are more extreme than others...hey...maybe liking diapers is extreme after all ) And I have met several DL's who started liking diapers very early on - but not everyone. And again. Not everyone in ABDL is regressive - but you can gather most AB's in that department, though. 

 

And as you said,  there are millions of us ABDL's and we are all different. We don't always fit into a neat little box. Some of us are 'unicorns' so to speak. There are plenty of grey areas n the mold. 

[Dr_J]

48 minutes ago, rosalie.bent said:

Well I have actually done a LOT of research and have also built a model of 'diaper attraction' which involves the three primary drivers: fetish, role-play and regression. I stand by this model as it fits the vast majority of people. it allows for fully sexual diaper expression as well as fully non-sexual expression.

It is the 'Trinary model of Diaper Attraction' and involves these three elements in various degrees according to the person. 

So you built this model? That doesn't make it right, and there are still inconsistencies with your initial claim. 

[rosalie.bent]

9 minutes ago, Dr_J said:

So you built this model? That doesn't make it right, and there are still inconsistencies with your initial claim. 

The model is a bit more complex than a mere venn diagram but it does summarise the points well.

I maintain that pretty much every ABDL fits in this model. Like all models, it is not perfect and needs further refinement (underway actually) but it can help a lot of people understand themselves and how they are both similar and quite different to other ABDLs.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I have noticed that either a majority or a large minority of ABDL's acquired that attraction  when their ages were in the single digits, as demonstrated by the "Play Age" or stated explicitly. That strongly implies that it is not sexual in those cases since the part of the brain that is conserned with sex is not even make, even though the physical organs themselves were as sensitive as ever, and from a very young age. Even Freude recognized that, putting the "phallic" stage well before the "genital" stage

Also Ak/LB/LG have a good percentage of non-sexual the gender-specific behaviors that go with it (for this purpose I use Taffy Cheerful's statment "Sex is physical gender is between the ears". Which matches what I've learned in such non-sexual subjects as languages, items like ships, nations,  and physical items like purses, dresses, dolls, etrc, which anyone could physically use Traditionally gender is not male/female but masculine/feminine. I suspect that the confusion, in the leteral meaning of the word, comes from the fact that, during the last century, "gender" was used on forms to mean "sex" due to the tabu of the time).  So, to the extent that you can speak to any thrait as a percentage of the target population, AK/LB/LG are regressive unless a sexual component is specified as in DD/LG, in which case the "LG" is a template more than a behavior pattern

[Nat]

5 hours ago, Dr_J said:

I'm gonna agree with @mamabug here. Rosalie, what are you basing your claims off of? Personal experience? Hard scientific evidence? You're already incorrect by throwing ABDL all into one classification. That is wrong, and there are indeed many, many grey areas with the lifestyle. 

I also disagree with Rosalie. 

 

ABDL is a spectrum and not everyone is into it for regression, for some it's about domination and humiliation. It is not a one size fits all thing. 

Some do it for relief of stress, some do it because they are into regression, some do it due to trauma.

Sometimes ABDL is mixed with BDSM. 

[Kinky_Wheels25]

This is a fascinating discussion! Seriously, I have been on lots of Fetish and ABDL forums, and most if not all had far less nuanced and thought out conceptions of our shared fetish.

That said, why all this hostility?

Essentially, everyone seems to be in agreement, and it’s simply the terminology being used that is acting as a bone of contention. As with anything involving as diverse and dispersed as human behavior, nothing’s absolute. There are a mind boggling multitude of unforeseeable variables that even the most trained researcher will have difficulty taking account of, and that’s doubly so for psychology. It’s a constantly growing and mutating discipline that’s more of a sophist art than a science since it allows it’s disparate and conflicting concepts to be equally valid. Why? Each discipline’s conclusions and methodology are largely colored by the subjective emotions and experiences of every doctor and patient.

I’m no psychiatrist or such, but it appears Rosalie is, and so I think it’s hard to argue the merits of the research and models she’s put forward. Do I like the simplified diagram? Yes. Do I completely agree with it’s conclusions? No. Either way, it’s more developed and realized than anything else I’ve read, so that needs acknowledgement. As with any branch of medicine - labels matter - so any pursuit to better define kinks is important. 

Which leads me to my main point: What is the distinction between AB/DL and Infantilism?

I would argue they are not interchangeable because can apply to an Adult/Teen Baby, but not a Diaper Lover. Still, caeteris paribus.

Since the majority of us in this community only have our personal experiences to draw from, that’s how we talk. There’s no way of verbalizing and coalescing our opinions on these subjects in public society because of just how TABOO anything relating to diapers is, so asking someone to keep their own story out of their argument is all but impossible. 

I, for one, have been incontinent my whole life and when puberty hit I became aroused during changes, so the discovery of DLs through a bit of Googling was a total eye opener. Even so, for a long time I only focused on the Medical side of the fetish, and was turned off by Infantilism specifically because of it’s emphasis on Regression. Now? I’m a Switch who enjoys both AB and DL play, but always with an emphasis on BD/SM. in that situation, which is the chicken and which is the egg?

Either way, I feel like I’m speaking for the majority when I say that the idea of broadening our sexual fetish to include Pre-Teens is uncomfortable. Whatever the origins, distancing this lifestyle from the underaged is important, and sexualizing whatever latent interests that minority demographic may hold is a slippery slope.