kegel

[2sail2]

My continence is very good, but wondering if it should or could be improved.  I eat dinner around 5:30 p.m. and go to sleep at 8:30 pm.  Then I wake up at midnight for the bathroom and then around 3 ish.  Dinner is usually kind of big since I only eat a half sandwich at lunch.

Today for whatever reason, I seem to have more urgency, so I tried to ignore it for 10 minutes, which was successful, then went at 10:30am.  Also, after lunch I started getting urges but I was able to ignore for 30 minutes.  I was wondering if it's ok to try to leak during kegel exercises or maybe even during the urgency episodes?  

 

I just realized maybe why I more urgency today, I was awake quite a bit last night, so every time I before I got in bed I went to the bathroom.  

[Bettypooh]

Everyone's habits vary somewhat at times. Sometimes a cause is evident and sometimes not. If it's only a moderate change with no evident cause it's not something to be concerned with unless it worsens of lasts more than a few days. And our bodies change over time too. Only large, rapid, or permanent changes are worth worrying about and even those are often just a part of aging.

Bettypooh

[babykeiff]

On 12/13/2018 at 9:48 PM, 2sail2 said:

My continence is very good, but wondering if it should or could be improved.  I eat dinner around 5:30 p.m. and go to sleep at 8:30 pm.  Then I wake up at midnight for the bathroom and then around 3 ish.  Dinner is usually kind of big since I only eat a half sandwich at lunch.

Today for whatever reason, I seem to have more urgency, so I tried to ignore it for 10 minutes, which was successful, then went at 10:30am.  Also, after lunch I started getting urges but I was able to ignore for 30 minutes.  I was wondering if it's ok to try to leak during kegel exercises or maybe even during the urgency episodes?  

 

I just realized maybe why I more urgency today, I was awake quite a bit last night, so every time I before I got in bed I went to the bathroom.  

2sail2,

can I presume that a qualified trusted medical consultant dealing with specifically your continence issues suggested and trained you in Kegel? If not, I strongly suggest that you cease and desist in the practice. Kegel is designed to strengthen specific muscle groups and, for a continent person, can create incontinence.

If you are having issues with your continence, I suggest that rather than looking for a quick fix from an internet site, that you consult with a qualified trusted medical consultant. There are numerous issues that can effect continence which makes its diagnosis and cure so difficult to impossible for some paitents.  However, despite the numerous issues, each benifit from early diagnosis.

You have noticed some urgency today, as identified in your post. Are you voiding more often in lesser volumns that usual - ie voiding 4 times of 200ml instead of once of 800ml? These are the types of information a qualified trusted medical consultant will need to find out to see if there is an actual change rather than a percieved change. I am sorry if you think that is me not believing you, but peoples time perception changes depending on how buzy their life is.

In your post, you state that you went to sleep 8.30pm. Can I presume that you voided prior to same? You also state that midnight, 4 1/2 hours later, you woke up to void, and then 3 hours later to void. A sleeping 3-4 hour bladder capacity is slightly concerning, however was there something that actually woke you OR was it the need to void? The body will avail of an oppertunity to void when it wakes out of training. Most of us were taught, when we wake, to go to the bathroom and void.

Daytime urgency with the capability to hold for 10 - 30 minuites identifies a strong and controlled external sphincter. However, did the urgency come from holding same prior to the event? Since you did not sleep wet, the urgency that you describe could be a misperception of the actual events. If someone is not focused, when one is signaled of their bladder and/or bowel needs, it can seem to be more urgent that actuallity. If the urgency was actual, and had a 10 minute and/or less warning, it is easy for the sleeping body to act on the urgency and you find yourself wetting the bed as you wake.

The valued information that will be required by a qualified trusted medical consultant is both the times, when signaled and when voided, and the quanties voided. I presume that you have a plastic measuring jug capable of holding 800 - 1000+ml. If so, place same in bathroom, and for the next few days, when you get the urge, go to the bathroom and see how long you can actually hold it. Record both times. When you void, go in the measuring jug, and also record the quantity. Also, contact a qualified trusted medical consultant and make an appointment to see him/her. This will be in 2-3 days. Bring in the list of actual need, when voided and quantity voided to this person. The history will identify, both to you and your doctor, if this is a misperception or an actual issue that needs to be addressed.

Edited January 4, 2019 by babykeiff
spelling correction

[stephrider]

I think kegel were made for women to reinforce their pelvic floor. Men dont have pelvic floor but prostate and sphinter and uretra which may contract as well. Kegel won't help for your continence it's sure. 

You may better speak with your doc and so assess the root cause of your urinary urgency.

[mick_dl]

? men have no pelvic floor... OK. I can tell you that this is nor right. It's also not right that the training of the pelvic floor my cause incontinence. It's exactly the other way around - for women and for men. The training of the pelvic floor is a good prevention and my also help to cope better with stress incontinence. More over for men pelvic floor training can help to depress the ejaculation reflex, and you get harder and have longer fun with your girlfrind ?    

[stephrider]

On 1/5/2019 at 11:23 PM, mick_dl said:

? men have no pelvic floor... OK. I can tell you that this is nor right. It's also not right that the training of the pelvic floor my cause incontinence. It's exactly the other way around - for women and for men. The training of the pelvic floor is a good prevention and my also help to cope better with stress incontinence. More over for men pelvic floor training can help to depress the ejaculation reflex, and you get harder and have longer fun with your girlfrind ?    

Yes you're right, what I wrote is not quite correct. Fact is men has pelvic floor as well but due to different anatomy of men vs women it does work a bit differently. 

So I'm not sure usual kegels work for men since pelvic floor of men is quite different. Nerve commands the external sphincter of the bladder and anus which is a sphincter as well and the force is for approx. 90% to that late (from what I red ). And workouts I found to strengthen that pelvic floor so the external sphincter is to make several contractions the anus of a finger from a partner. The patient must feel those muscles contracting. It's not a game nor sexual but a fair, quite embarrassing and difficult exercise to do regularly.

There is some variants but the mains principle remains similar.

 

[babykeiff]

On 1/5/2019 at 10:23 PM, mick_dl said:

? men have no pelvic floor... OK. I can tell you that this is nor right. It's also not right that the training of the pelvic floor my cause incontinence. It's exactly the other way around - for women and for men. The training of the pelvic floor is a good prevention and my also help to cope better with stress incontinence. More over for men pelvic floor training can help to depress the ejaculation reflex, and you get harder and have longer fun with your girlfrind ?    

Mick_dl,

There is a common misquote that states 'practice is perfect' that is understood to mean the more one practices a task, the better they will get in mastering that task. When one understands the actual quote, one can understand the error.

"Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

This is the same with any excercise. If it is done correctly, yes it can, for some, improve a situation. However, if it is done incorrectly, it usually causes more damage than good.

From your comments, it seems to be that you may be a person interested in body building etc... and you attend classes on a regular basis. Your 'training' is from a decent source, one who is more experienced than yourself. The internet is not a good source of professional information.

So yes, you are both correct and wrong in the same phrase.

[mick_dl]

9 hours ago, babykeiff said:

"Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

Babykeiff

100% agreement here. BUT: Who does Kegel? I learned about that when my urologist send me to a specialised physical therapist to train it... I don't think people start training this just for fun. It's not like going to a gym, saying: Hey let's lift some wights (what is a lot more dangerous by the way if you not briefed correctly). You do Kegel and similar exercises because your doc told you that you should do it - and he send you to someone who will show you what and how you have to do.

So maybe I'm a bit greenly - but would you buy some irons and start pumping them without a professional introduction - just because you read something about that in the internet? I mean - yes there may people doing this, but they don't have to wunder if they harm themselves.  

It's like with most things in live: If you don't now how it works and what the risks are, you better ask a professional before...  But anyway - for the pelvic floor training the highest "risk" is, that you simply train the wrong muscles and get frustrated because it doesn't work. 

[babykeiff]

2 hours ago, mick_dl said:

Babykeiff

100% agreement here. BUT: Who does Kegel? I learned about that when my urologist send me to a specialised physical therapist to train it... I don't think people start training this just for fun. It's not like going to a gym, saying: Hey let's lift some wights (what is a lot more dangerous by the way if you not briefed correctly). You do Kegel and similar exercises because your doc told you that you should do it - and he send you to someone who will show you what and how you have to do.

So maybe I'm a bit greenly - but would you buy some irons and start pumping them without a professional introduction - just because you read something about that in the internet? I mean - yes there may people doing this, but they don't have to wunder if they harm themselves.  

It's like with most things in live: If you don't now how it works and what the risks are, you better ask a professional before...  But anyway - for the pelvic floor training the highest "risk" is, that you simply train the wrong muscles and get frustrated because it doesn't work. 

mick_dl

you are 100% correct and 100% wrong. Yes, some people are smart enough to find out all the information before they attempt a task... yet there are still the fools. As anyone in design and development.... make something foolproof and the world creates a bigger fool.

Re Kegel - yes, done correctly and it may increase ones continence - that is if their continence is based on weak sphincter tone etc. Lets say that their continence is due to overtension and/or rotation of the sphincter / urethra. As a result, even  correct kegel can cause damage.

What I am saying is See qualified trusted medical advise before attempting any internet fad!

[mick_dl]

Babykeiff,

I know what you mean and you probably right with this thread... ;-) Maybe this help a bit to understand Kegel better:

https://www.continence.org.au/pages/how-do-pelvic-floor-muscles-help.html  

How ever - I'm curious to learn. Maybe you can explain the clinical picture a bit more precisely, that contraindicate Kegel and the probability of occurence?

 

[babykeiff]

Kegel, as you are correct, is to exercise and strengthen the pelvic floor. The pelvic floor is the group of sinews and muscles that are interconnected at the bottom of the pelvis. They hold certain internal organs in place, and also, allow same to function.

Muscles of Pelvic Floor

Kegel can be used to exercise this group of muscles if they are weak and/or loose. However, if they are tight, Kegel will overtighten these which cause strain on the interconnections / tearing (prolapse). If they are both tight in certain areas and loose in others, the tightening of same can cause twisting and rotation of internal organs including the urinary urethra and the associated sphincters.

Why Kegel can be Bad

Adverse effects of kegels

[mick_dl]

Hi Babykeiff,

these are indeed interesting articles and it's probably still a controversy discussion here. So thank you very much for providing this :-)

[stephrider]

Still kegel of pelvic floor are for women because their bladder pelvic floor lays on a big muscle called pelvic floor. Men have different anatomy so you have to find out what kind of workouts you can practice. I would say usual kegels are point less on men.

Men have 2 sphincters, one is the prostate which you cannot work it out because it's a smooth muscle. Means driven by autonomic nervous system. And the 2nd is the external sphincter that you can control consiously but its nerve command controls the anal sphincter as well in the mean time. I heard you can work out that late to strengthen both. Just Google it to figure it out how it works.

[babykeiff]

Morphine is not available (should not be) on the internet. That does not state that morphone should / should not be used as a pain supressor. It is used as same, but only under medical supervision.

Kegel is exactly the same - to be used under direct / indirect medical supervision.