Strange days indeed - a 24 x 7 experiment

[Bettypooh]

It seems to be going well for you and that's a good thing. Do be diligent in upholding your end of agreements- to fail that only opens a door to problems easily avoided. It's good to hear that there was professionalism at your airports. My last round of flying here exposed the utter stupidity of our TSA personnel who couldn't understand what I meant when I said "I'm incontinent and I'm wearing protection" when there in my open laptop case was what was an easily seen plastic-backed Molicare under it. It was all I could do to resist saying "Are you really that f-ing stupid?" but somehow I managed to remain composed.

Wishing you all the best and it seems you're on the right path to getting that!

Bettypooh

[Little Sherri]

Hi, Oznl - thanks for the detailed and interesting update. Congratulations on being back, and being back in diapers. Indeed, the drug store/supermarket options for nappies in North America are dismal; the options online are much better. I am in day 13 of wearing 24/7, baby steps on your path. I am on day 2 of a business trip wherein I only brought diapers, no other underwear options. Got up this morning and only had a choice of a couple of diapers, unless I was going to go find a store, which I definitely did not want, nor have time, to do. I enjoyed the feeling of being trapped in this predicament of my own making. All the best and thanks again. 

[oznl]

Well, that’s 1 x 24x7 down in my second phase of permanently-nappied life.  There is surprisingly little to report and I'm not sure how valuable updates will be for a while. 

I snapped back in to my nappy routine very quickly.  Again, day-nappies can be inconvenient at times but never to the extent that I considered not wearing them.  Night nappies are just ridiculously comfortable and convenient.  I just LOVE not having to wake up properly to pee and sleep is much easier with an empty bladder.  Waking up warm and wet is always nice.

Autumn has arrived here (such as it is in a sub-tropical climate) and it dipped down to 14C the other night which was a bit of a shock since it’s been hot since last October.  Between Thursday night and Saturday I was in cloth nappies as usual and for the first time, I had to tumble dry them after laundering as it wasn’t warm enough for them to line dry quickly.

A couple of days last week I was just too busy at work to actually make it to the gym in the afternoon (my gym session affords me a nappy change opportunity as well as some exercise).  This means my BetterDry really is my "all day" nappy.  I’ve actually discovered that if I need to, I can actually get through 24 hours just using 2 x BetterDry (changing out into another after work will easily cope with the evening and overnight) but I do wonder if being wet for that much of the time might not be inviting rash dramas.  By 5pm, a BetterDry that went on at 7am is pretty heavy.  Two nappies per day doesn't seem like much, even if I'm only wetting them so where possible, I'll use my usual 1 x BetterDry + 2 x Molicare cadence.

There’s no doubt that my control recovered reasonably well during my month-long break although the changes I experienced first time around seem to be coming on faster second time.  I’m already noticing that it’s easy to stay in a “drip zone” and that clenching at the end of a pee is not as automatic and involuntary as before after only a week.  I’ve also quickly drifted back into being relatively oblivious to wet nappies as long as they aren’t leaking or cold.

This morning I changed into a Tena Slip maxi.  I’m not a huge fan of them but I have a few packs and had decided not to waste them.  As they are cloth backed, I’ve had problems with them becoming damp and wicking pee through to my outer clothing.  To avoid this, I pulled a terry-lined nylon waterproof over them.  This was a bit puffy though under my loose shorts and my partner actually asked me if I was wearing cloth nappies today.  Appreciating the hint, I re-engineered to some PUL-pants and a compression garment over the top.  She said then that this was much better and it was difficult to tell I was in a nappy. 

I’ve been making an effort to keep my nappies covered up even when it’s just her that would see them (I wear pyjama pants over them at night now instead of just a nappy and t-shirt to bed).  I can’t quite understand why not seeing them is so important when she knows full well that they are there and there is nobody else with us to see them anyway but if that’s what it takes to keep her happier then whatever…  It seems a small price to pay.

[Newbee]

Hi onzl

Thanks for the update, sometimes it’s out of sight out of mind.

[ozziebee]

I’m curious to see whether my continence “theory” (the sine wave effect) still holds. I suspect the wave’s frequency will be quite fast, so you’ll slide back towards your pre-break continence point quite quickly. 

 

I also agree with the “out of sight, out of mind” bit. Is your wife embarrassed for you (given her hint to you about your nappy)?  Just in case someone turns up unannounced, perhaps?

[oznl]

20 hours ago, ozziebee said:

I’m curious to see whether my continence “theory” (the sine wave effect) still holds. I suspect the wave’s frequency will be quite fast, so you’ll slide back towards your pre-break continence point quite quickly.

I also agree with the “out of sight, out of mind” bit. Is your wife embarrassed for you (given her hint to you about your nappy)?  Just in case someone turns up unannounced, perhaps?

I'll let you know.  I'd certainly "plateued out" by March continence-wise but at the back of my mind and looming larger every day was the foresight that I was going to have to come out of nappies.  I think this really did reimpose some subconscious control.  I seem to be thinking it less second time around too.

As for the "out of sight, out of mind" thing, it's a mystery to me.  If something IS, it still IS even if I can't see it.  That's just the way my brain works.   There is no doubt that one of her key problems is that she wants a protector and provider and the image of me in a nappy runs counter to that.  She's told me as much.  Ah conditional love, I suspect that's what brought me here in the first place some fifty-something years ago...

 

[Bettypooh]

Maybe I put too much emphasis on it, but when a habit-change comes naturally and easy that seems to say you're going in the right direction. At least to me, anyway  A two-diaper day might work for you, but that also means you're going to be spending more time in a heavily-used diaper which is more prone to leaking than one not as soggy. And if that happens it will be a faster and larger event since there's more moisture at work. It could work well if the wettest times coincide with the least risky times for a leak, but is the savings worth the risk? At home I don't care but in public I don't want to even approach those limits. It happens anyway sometimes. Things don't always go according to plan so I like having a buffer of time before a change becomes an absolute necessity. I aim for around a half-hour which usually covers things but if there's any doubt or if I'm going into a "no-leaks-allowed" situation I'll change early just to be safe Everyone will vary, but as long as there's no abrasion going on I don't have skin problems from being wet no matter how long I'm soaked. This is only applicable to disposables for me; extended times in cloth diapers do cause me skin problems. 

Women generally place a higher value on appearance than men do, and they think that what they see clearly and what that means is going to be the same for everyone else. If your diaper looks obvious to wifey then she's thinking everyone will see that and instantly think "diaper" too, along with all the affiliated connotations she attaches to that. She clearly doesn't want anyone else knowing you're diapered. Remember the "if looks could kill" moment at the airport scanner? That clearly shows this. You can use this to your advantage though. Adopt the women's approach of asking about appearance sometimes which will both keep your being diapered in her mind regularly so that she gets more used to it being the norm as it also makes her feel her opinion in the matter is important

I doubt she's ever going to be greatly comfortable with your wearing but as long as it's being constantly tolerated the end result for you is the same Just do all that you can to stay in that zone for her sake and I think your soggy but happy life will go on together without too much further fanfare over this.

Bettypooh

[oznl]

22 hours ago, Bettypooh said:

 A two-diaper day might work for you, but that also means you're going to be spending more time in a heavily-used diaper which is more prone to leaking than one not as soggy. And if that happens it will be a faster and larger event since there's more moisture at work. It could work well if the wettest times coincide with the least risky times for a leak, but is the savings worth the risk?

Yes it wouldn't be my default strategy.  I just found it a little annoying that sometimes I'd be wearing a Molicare for maybe 4 hours and throwing it away when it was only 25% wet because although it had survived the evening, it would most likely not make it through the night.  Ideally, I'd change out of my BetterDry a little earlier and make more use of my "evening" Molicare but my work meeting regime just doesn't permit this. 

I actually leaked a tiny bit today but nobody would have noticed.  As usual, the lower tape wasn't as tight as it should have been on one side and a little bit of wet padding peaked through and eventually wicked past the elastics on my PUL pants.  It was invisible with dark jeans and very small - just a tablespoon size damp patch.  Despite the error being mine, it could never have happened if that nappy wasn't 80% saturated.  I ducked into the bathroom and adjusted the tapes and got another hour out of it with no further leaks.

 

[oznl]

So I seem to be re-covering the same ground I covered when I first went 24x7 back in December but second time around the pace of change seems to be a fair bit quicker.

Like before at around week 3/week 4, I’ve had some mild skin irritation in my nappy area but it seems to be clearing up now and my skin is re-acquiring a kind of leathery toughness it had before. 

I’m invariably choosing to wet myself but little or no real concentration is required and I’m again largely oblivious to the sensation of “wet” in my pants.  My nappies seeming perfectly normal to me again and I feel vaguely naked for the brief periods I am out of them.

One thing that came roaring back quite quickly: yesterday I removed my (soaked) day-nappy in the gym bathroom and quite unconsciously dripped on the floor because I forgot to clench.  I truly did not feel that happening.  Oops.  That didn’t take very long this time.

This is as I come to the end of week 2: significantly faster changes than first time around.

I didn’t go nappy-free for my gym session but changed into a pull-up which I’d slightly wet at the end of a 45m work out.  That lasted until I got home where I changed into cloth nappies for the night as today is a holiday.

Nocturnal continence remains at 100% although I’m loving the luxury of sleeping with an empty bladder and warm underwear all the time:  wake-up, pee, fall back asleep quickly, don’t move.  I’m vaguely looking forward to my first “pee dream” although last time, I only had one, maybe two of these across 2.5 months.

The only “off” note was a slightly disturbing DD post I read the other day:

https://www.dailydiapers.com/board/index.php?/topic/67888-i-probably-made-myself-functionally-incontinent-and-i-regret-it/

That is something I have considered.  There’s no doubt that I’m strangely attracted to the idea of drifting away from continence (at least for pee) but what if the reality was somehow repugnant to me once I got there.  Having said that, the OP of that thread identifies as being 20 years old.  During my 20s, 30s and 40s I did a lot and travelled the world widely.  I can’t imagine how I could have done that with compulsory diapers.  Now I’m in my mid 50s,  I’m in the autumn years of a career, I’ve had a lot longer to think about things and a lot less time remaining to me so maybe it’s different for me…

I’ll probably just wait until I first wet myself without realising it and then see what I make of that ?

[Stroller]

18 hours ago, oznl said:

I’ll probably just wait until I first wet myself without realising it and then see what I make of that

Well you may not notice it happening, or, rather, not know whether it happened or not.  I've thought twice this week on my hiking trip: "I've just wet.  I don't remember noticing I was about to.  Did it happen without my conscious control?"  I don't know whether I've got control or not, really.  I suppose that's because I've made no effort to control it for months.

[oznl]

5 hours ago, Stroller said:

Well you may not notice it happening, or, rather, not know whether it happened or not.  I've thought twice this week on my hiking trip: "I've just wet.  I don't remember noticing I was about to.  Did it happen without my conscious control?"  I don't know whether I've got control or not, really.  I suppose that's because I've made no effort to control it for months.

That did actually occur to me but only after I had written!  With only a bit over 3 months 24x7 (and having had a four week break) it's just a thought bubble right now.

There is a kind of hint about this ambiguity happening at nights though.  I'm pretty certain that I'm only wetting during waking periods at night but as the degree of wakefulness required seems to quickly get lower, some nights I don't really have any precise memories to confirm this.  I'm just assuming I am waking - I don't really remember some nights so how would I really know if I STOPPED waking to wet?  I'm always well wet in the morning anyway...

So I think you're about 6 or 7 months in now?

[ozziebee]

Something happened to me last weekend, that was a head scratcher - I changed about 2030, went to bed about 2130, remember wetting once in that time, not a big one. I remember waking up once or twice to wetting, also not big ones. 

 

But when I got uo and took my night nappy off about 0830 next morning, it weighed 2280grams, so it worked out to about 1940ml of pee. These kinds of figures have had my urologist stumped at times. It does not look like my body produces vasopressin or enough of it at night, so I end up with figures like that on occasion. 

 

So yes, I do think that I am sleep-wetting at night, but I do also do the “semi-wake up amd immediately wet” thing, and in the morning, get up out of bed and immediately wet too. 

[Stroller]

19 hours ago, oznl said:

So I think you're about 6 or 7 months in now?

Yes, but not at night, except when I'm away or Mummy's away.  I can this week, as I'm off hiking.

When I do wear at night, I've never wet in my sleep.  I wake up in the night, & even if it's because I need to wet, I often find it difficult to actually wet.  No idea why: the urge often just doesn't come.   The only time I ever feel I need to wet is when my bladder's really full.  During the day it never gets full: I just start wetting long before that.  Usually I feel it about to start, then away I go.  That's what I've not tried to stop for months, and I'm really happy with it like that.  As far as I know, I could stop it if I wanted to, but I've never wanted to.  Maybe I couldn't stop it if I wanted to, but I suspect that's not the case, not yet anyway.  At night that doesn't seem to happen: it's like the whole mechanism has switched off.  It's not that I'm tense or worried in any way.  It's just a bit of a nuisance.  Hope I get it sorted eventually.

[oznl]

3 hours ago, Stroller said:

When I do wear at night, I've never wet in my sleep.  I wake up in the night, & even if it's because I need to wet, I often find it difficult to actually wet. 

I'm not sure if it's just many years of habituation (albeit intermittent until recently), I have absolutely no difficulty wetting in bed.  I've fallen back into the pattern of wetting 2 - 3 times in relatively small amounts across the night as I stir and in the morning, I've rediscovered the joy of a long lie in (assuming I don't have to go to work) because my bladder is empty and comfortable.  Without nappies, I'm usually woken by the need to pee around 4am.  If I get up however, that's usually it for sleep as my body decides the night is over.  Instead, I doze fitfully and uncomfortably before eventually getting up to use the bathroom 2 - 3 hours later.  I'm getting much better sleep in nappies.

I don't think I've wet in my sleep truly but I can recall a few instances where I don't think I was fully awake.  In all of these instances, my brain clearly knew that it was "ok" just to let go and that the bed was protected.  As per my earlier point however, when I stop to reflect, how would I really know?  Sometimes I suspect that the first substantive change might be my subconscious not bothering to fully wake me during the night if it thinks I'm suitably attired.

21 hours ago, ozziebee said:

Something happened to me last weekend, that was a head scratcher - I changed about 2030, went to bed about 2130, remember wetting once in that time, not a big one. I remember waking up once or twice to wetting, also not big ones.

But when I got uo and took my night nappy off about 0830 next morning, it weighed 2280grams, so it worked out to about 1940ml of pee. These kinds of figures have had my urologist stumped at times. It does not look like my body produces vasopressin or enough of it at night, so I end up with figures like that on occasion.

So yes, I do think that I am sleep-wetting at night, but I do also do the “semi-wake up amd immediately wet” thing, and in the morning, get up out of bed and immediately wet too. 

Two liters overnight?  Wouldn't that count as polyuria?  My overnight cloth nappies *might* handle that but the Molicares, no way.  So far I've avoided weighing my nappies (partly because my partner catching me misusing a kitchen appliance with a used nappy is going to be a world of hurt I just choose to avoid) but a guesstimate of a full night's worth would be 400ml or so.  I suspect that some of my workday BetterDry's may have dealt with a liter or so. 

 

[Bettypooh]

On 4/20/2019 at 8:17 PM, oznl said:

I don't think I've wet in my sleep truly but I can recall a few instances where I don't think I was fully awake.  In all of these instances, my brain clearly knew that it was "ok" just to let go and that the bed was protected.  As per my earlier point however, when I stop to reflect, how would I really know?  Sometimes I suspect that the first substantive change might be my subconscious not bothering to fully wake me during the night if it thinks I'm suitably attired.

 

Thar's pretty much how it goes. Once your subconscious mind gets locked into the fact that there is no need to wake just to pee, you will stop waking. On this path it happens gradually but hypnosis and mind-training techniques can speed the process along. Years into this, I still wake to pee- usually just barely but occasionally it's becoming fully awake before I understand why I woke up, and about equal is no waking at all. I'm right on the edge of being a true bedwetter and I'm not straying from here. I still have some small reservations about it which keep me in place,  plus this is where I want to be right now. I refuse to go back to using the toilet and just a nudge will send me the other way. What I'm waiting on is a soulmate who will give me that nudge. That's the one hole in my life which has never been filled and I'd like to experience it before I'm gone. I've cone close once or twice but it just didn't happen, so I remain alone.

Bettypooh

[Little Sherri]

On 4/22/2019 at 6:36 AM, Bettypooh said:

Thar's pretty much how it goes. Once your subconscious mind gets locked into the fact that there is no need to wake just to pee, you will stop waking. On this path it happens gradually but hypnosis and mind-training techniques can speed the process along. Years into this, I still wake to pee- usually just barely but occasionally it's becoming fully awake before I understand why I woke up, and about equal is no waking at all. I'm right on the edge of being a true bedwetter and I'm not straying from here. I still have some small reservations about it which keep me in place,  plus this is where I want to be right now. I refuse to go back to using the toilet and just a nudge will send me the other way. What I'm waiting on is a soulmate who will give me that nudge. That's the one hole in my life which has never been filled and I'd like to experience it before I'm gone. I've cone close once or twice but it just didn't happen, so I remain alone.

Bettypooh

That's interesting - thanks for sharing. My experience so far has been that I actually wet the bed about twice a year - this was basically my impetus for sleeping in diapers (or you could call it the perfect excuse to do so). It may be related to a medical condition -  my neurologist says "might be, might not". But, other than those rare occasions, so far, I can't unconsciously wet the bed (well, wet my diaper), no matter how much I would love to not have to be woken up by nature's call. I can kind of "drift off" in the midst of doing it, but I definitely have to initiate the activity. Except when I don't. I wish those occasions would happen more often, but at the same time, they can also be a bit disconcerting - the loss of control experience is heavily reminiscent of having been a bed-wetting child, except that rather than being a rare event, back then, you could set your clock by it. It didn't matter how long I went without drinking, it didn't matter if I went to the bathroom before bed, and it didn't matter if my parents woke me up to go when they went to be - the results were the same, a damp nappy probably 6 nights out of 7, and the occasional two-nappy night. Whereas now, I drink as much liquid as I want, sometimes on weekends that liquid might be wine or beer, possibly in slight excess, and, I'm not going to the bathroom before bed (because I'm usually already in a diaper), and yet, no, er "luck". Except when lightning strikes. Go figure. 

As to the partner angle, I hear you. 

[Bettypooh]

Occasional  bedwetting happens to many people, and once or twice a year is not considered to be medically significant, but is worthy of a look into the matter, especially if it increases.

We think of some things being beyond out reach, such as our body's autonomous functions like breathing and heartbeat. Yet there are many well-documented instances where people have learned to control these things through meditative techniques and lots of practice. So if that is possible then so is a return to bedwetting, which is essentially the same kind of thing. The one difference here is the hormonal influence of vasopressin reducing urine output from the kidneys at night yet that too should be equally controllable given enough effort and practice, and I think that those who have returned to bedwetting would have lower vasopressin levels were we to measure them. I wish someone would do that measuring to confirm my thoughts.

I believe that everything is possible from a whole and functional body. We all once had no bladder or bowel control so it must be possible for all of us to achieve that state of being once again. We've spent most of our lifetime developing the habit of control, so losing it isn't going to happen overnight. As powerful as our mind and brain are, they still respond to hidden doubts which can block the way to our desired destination, so most important is to remove all doubt and desire with all your heart and soul, then it will be possible. Not everyone can do this though and that is because they do not truly believe that all things are possible. Those people will always fail in this endeavor and many others because of that. Believe in yourself and in the goodness of your desires and there's hope for you 

Bettypooh

[oznl]

Update time!  I’m just coming up to a whole month back in 24/7 after returning to Australia.  It seems to have slipped past very quickly.  I will have spent 3.5 months permanently in nappies since late December last year.

There’s no doubt that my 4 week enforced “nappy holiday” substantially recovered the early signs of diaper dependency that were emerging but on the flip side, regression has occurred much more quickly second time around.  I suspect I’m pretty much back at the point I was after 2.5 months of continuous nappy use but this time, just after one month.  Once again, my nappies are “normal” to me, I don’t notice being wet, for long periods of time I can sit working and dribble pee almost continuously and although I’m not bedwetting, I don’t have particular recollection of wetting in bed and occasionally, I suspect I’ve woken up to pee and fallen back asleep before I’ve finished. 

My sensation upon urination is also altered/reduced (as it was before).  I think, and next thing I know I am wetting.  It’s hard to map sensations back to physiology diagrams but I suspect both my internal and external sphincters have had a bit of a holiday and my external sphincter is often open so any kind of bladder contraction will often result in wet pants rather than the usual secondary sensation.  Again, I can also drip on the floor if I forget to clench after removing a nappy.

This week I attended a routine specialist medical appointment in my nappies.  That was a first.  I very much doubt anything was noticed.  I did have to have an ECG (electrical, not echo) but that was nothing more than unbuttoning a shirt to let the leads be fixed on with a fairly disinterested tech.  The whole thing was 10 minutes.  The subsequent specialist consult was basically a tick and flick because the ECG was normal (and has been for some years now) and he was far more interested in my thoughts on some aspects of data encryption (he knows I work in the field)!   I continue to contend that even a BetterDry 24/7, IF worn beneath compression pants under loose fitting, dark pants is at best difficult to spot unless you know what to look for.  The compression pants make all the difference – they can be quite puffy otherwise.

Next challenge:  I have a three-day conference coming up in a resort down in a regional interstate area next week: 2.5 hour flight, 2 hours on a bus to a rural location and 3 days of conferencing.  As I mentioned, my bladder range has regressed quicker second time around so for comfort and practicality, I don’t think suddenly coming out of nappies for this trip would be a great idea even if I wanted to (and I don’t want to).

So, I’m going to have to pack a LOT of nappies: I’m thinking a dozen for safety plus what I’ll be wearing.  I’ve bought some dark travel laundry bags but I’m also going to have to consider how I will dispose of my wet nappies in a small resort in close proximity to colleagues.

My spouse has gone to her happy place and simply ignores it all which is all I can ask for.  I got an eye-roll this morning when she walked up to my bedside (she'd gotten up before me) and accidentally kicked an open pack of BetterDry that was under my side of the bed but it was at best an ambiguous censure.  She doesn’t ask and I don’t tell.  She’s a long way from happy about (and will probably remain so) but she’s come off the cliff edge so to speak.

[ozziebee]

Hey Oz, I think I broke my own “record” last night. Woke this morning to water movement up my back and down the front wings from front to back. 

As I was changing just now I noticed the nappy was pretty full, which is a bit alarming since I’d changed about 11pm then went to sleep. 

Weighing the used nappy, it was 2.24kg, which equates to an even 2L of pee expelled overnight in about 10 hours (woke at 9am, changed at 10). 

I am waking st night sometimes to pee. At other times i must not be waking at all. 

[oznl]

4 hours ago, ozziebee said:

Hey Oz, I think I broke my own “record” last night. Woke this morning to water movement up my back and down the front wings from front to back. 

As I was changing just now I noticed the nappy was pretty full, which is a bit alarming since I’d changed about 11pm then went to sleep. 

Weighing the used nappy, it was 2.24kg, which equates to an even 2L of pee expelled overnight in about 10 hours (woke at 9am, changed at 10). 

I am waking st night sometimes to pee. At other times i must not be waking at all. 

Mmm, maybe you want to let your GP know?   I mean isn't the body's production of vasopressin meant to stop that kind of stuff happening overnight?  That's an impressive quantity but it  sounds like polyuria territory which can indicate a problem.  I'm guessing you're in a BetterDry because there is no way my Molicare Maxis would be managing that kind of workload and I'd have wet bedding and a hostile spouse (who would possibly also be wet)!  I'd estimate I've put more than a liter into my cloth night nappies but they are usually on me for 12-14 hours.  I put them on around dinner time and they stay on until the next morning.  I'd guess an overnight Molicare would be < 700ml by weight and i'm a big bear kind of guy.

 

 

 

[Little Sherri]

Hi, Oz - I had a bit of a breakthrough with my wife a couple of nights ago that I thought you might find interesting. If you recall, I've been wearing diapers to bed almost without exception for about two years now, and, essentially following in your footsteps, I've been wearing 24/7 about 80% of the time over the last month. I haven't figured out what or how to wear when I'm exercising or participating in martial arts. Other than that, I try to wear in every situation, and so far I have been pretty successful. 

But back to the breakthrough - wearing at night in secret, wondering "Does she know? Does she not?", taking my shorts off under the cover of darkness so I could sleep in just a t-shirt and a diaper, which is how I am most comfortable, was growing tiresome. It reminded me of the shame and embarrassment I felt as an older kid wearing diapers to bed, and I think this comes with realizing I'm not getting any younger - I just felt that it was time to take the plunge. Reading your story and some others was also definitely influential. 

So, after we had had a particularly good chat on another topic on the weekend, I steeled myself, and I raised the first topic I wanted to touch on - my use of a pacifier at night. I knew she knew about that, BUT, it had never been spoken of out loud. I asked her if she had noticed, and she said she had, and I asked if she knew why, and she said no. I asked her if she recalled how she used to elbow me in the middle of the night four or five times a week because my mouth guard was making clicking noises, to which she said yes, and I said, well, has that happened at all in recent memory? She said no, and I said, truthfully, that's because of the pacifiers. She said, well, if that's what it takes, she welcomes it. 

Then, I took a deep breath, and I said do you know about this... and I pulled down one side of my sweatpants and showed her part of my diaper. She said no, what's that about? And I told her about having occasionally wet the bed over the past couple of years, and being tired of having to wash the bedding in secret, but also about my childhood experience wearing diapers to bed, and that I had decided a couple of years ago that I just slept better in a diaper, it was less stressful for me, and what did she think of that? 

I held my breath, basically. But, ever practical, she immediately told me she was using "Poise" pads herself - essentially more robust sanitary pads that are designed to catch moderate urine output. Ever since the kids were born, she said, she's had issues with leakage when she sneezes or coughs, and as far as she's concerned, we're not getting any younger, and if we can't talk to each other about these things, who can we talk to? She said if I feel that I need to wear diapers at night, she's glad that I felt I could talk to her about it, and it doesn't bother her. 

I can't describe the relief I felt in that moment. I have no idea what I would have done if it had gone in a different direction - I don't think I would be willing to blow up my household over this, granted, deep-seated desire to be in diapers. I still haven't broached the topic of wearing during the day, but, for the first time in my adult life, over the last couple of nights, I wore a diaper openly, uncovered, and we watched TV in bed and chatted and carried on like everything was normal, which, essentially, it was, other than the pacifier on my night stand and my being in a diaper. 

I know that I have to be careful not to push this on her too rapidly, but these early, ahem, "baby steps", seem to have gone well. 

[oznl]

On 5/8/2019 at 2:45 AM, Little Sherri said:

Hi, Oz - I had a bit of a breakthrough with my wife a couple of nights ago that I thought you might find interesting. If you recall, I've been wearing diapers to bed almost without exception for about two years now, and, essentially following in your footsteps, I've been wearing 24/7 about 80% of the time over the last month. I haven't figured out what or how to wear when I'm exercising or participating in martial arts. Other than that, I try to wear in every situation, and so far I have been pretty successful. 

But back to the breakthrough - wearing at night in secret, wondering "Does she know? Does she not?", taking my shorts off under the cover of darkness so I could sleep in just a t-shirt and a diaper, which is how I am most comfortable, was growing tiresome. It reminded me of the shame and embarrassment I felt as an older kid wearing diapers to bed, and I think this comes with realizing I'm not getting any younger - I just felt that it was time to take the plunge. Reading your story and some others was also definitely influential. 

So, after we had had a particularly good chat on another topic on the weekend, I steeled myself, and I raised the first topic I wanted to touch on - my use of a pacifier at night. I knew she knew about that, BUT, it had never been spoken of out loud. I asked her if she had noticed, and she said she had, and I asked if she knew why, and she said no. I asked her if she recalled how she used to elbow me in the middle of the night four or five times a week because my mouth guard was making clicking noises, to which she said yes, and I said, well, has that happened at all in recent memory? She said no, and I said, truthfully, that's because of the pacifiers. She said, well, if that's what it takes, she welcomes it. 

Then, I took a deep breath, and I said do you know about this... and I pulled down one side of my sweatpants and showed her part of my diaper. She said no, what's that about? And I told her about having occasionally wet the bed over the past couple of years, and being tired of having to wash the bedding in secret, but also about my childhood experience wearing diapers to bed, and that I had decided a couple of years ago that I just slept better in a diaper, it was less stressful for me, and what did she think of that? 

I held my breath, basically. But, ever practical, she immediately told me she was using "Poise" pads herself - essentially more robust sanitary pads that are designed to catch moderate urine output. Ever since the kids were born, she said, she's had issues with leakage when she sneezes or coughs, and as far as she's concerned, we're not getting any younger, and if we can't talk to each other about these things, who can we talk to? She said if I feel that I need to wear diapers at night, she's glad that I felt I could talk to her about it, and it doesn't bother her. 

I can't describe the relief I felt in that moment. I have no idea what I would have done if it had gone in a different direction - I don't think I would be willing to blow up my household over this, granted, deep-seated desire to be in diapers. I still haven't broached the topic of wearing during the day, but, for the first time in my adult life, over the last couple of nights, I wore a diaper openly, uncovered, and we watched TV in bed and chatted and carried on like everything was normal, which, essentially, it was, other than the pacifier on my night stand and my being in a diaper. 

I know that I have to be careful not to push this on her too rapidly, but these early, ahem, "baby steps", seem to have gone well. 

Well congratulations on successfully dragging your diapers out from under the bed!  I guess you are in front of me insofar as your spouse has some degree of positive engagement (as opposed to reluctant tolerance) but on the other hand, she believes that this is driven by medical rather than psychological necessity.

Do you think she really did NOT notice that her spouse sleeping beside her was diapered for all that time or that she simply chose not to notice for whatever reason?  I know that I can do a pretty good number on “willful blindness” to avoid dealing with something I don’t know how to deal with:  there are many elephants in my rooms ?  Very early on in this saga, I wore nappies to bed on “unauthorised” nights and despite being in bed before her and having them on beneath pyjama pants, she discovered and reacted (negatively) almost instantly.

Only a couple of steps ahead of you, I’m not sure that I’m well qualified to offer any advice but my course would be NOT to push things forward for quite some time, until I was convinced that everything was normalised and calm.  3.5 months into 24/7, I’ve done nothing to push any boundaries and still go out of my way to keep evidence of my nappies out of her direct view but I make no secret that I wear them and do not apologise for them.  For her part, she neither comments nor criticises and I suspect for the most part, pretends she doesn’t see.

If I persist with this, I suspect the next developmental milestone will be ditching some of the more inconvenient manoeuvres I undertake to hide things from her (such as conducting my pre-bed nappy change in my study which is a pain in the @rse!) to make life a little more practical.  The biggest “elephant in the room” will be if I develop any real dependency (incontinence).  That’s going to be a tough thing to share.

[oznl]

Update time:

So this week saw me down at an off-site work conference/retreat for three days in a small rural village on a mountain top at the other end of the country.

I remained 24/7 through this adventure but in fact it was a complete pain in the backside.

The painfulness started with the fact that after my nappies, plastic pants, other assorted incontinence accoutrements and my CPAP machine, there was practically no room for clothes in my short-haul trundle bag.  Prioritising flat things, I had sufficient clothes to manage only by leveraging spare pockets in my laptop bag and hoping nobody would notice that I double-dipped on shirt wearing.

The painfulness continued after the 2.5 hour flight and then 2 hour bus trip to discover our venue was a ramshackle, old, hipster-powered eco-spa.  It was small, draft-ridden, intimate and completely bereft of rubbish bins (presumably all waste materials were composted by the solar-powered dolphins in the fish pond).  My room had a “bin” the size of a coffee mug designed for no more than one or two used tissues.  The BetterDry I had been wearing for 8 hours sagged ominously.

A discreet reconnaissance of the venue (do these people not make trash ANYWHERE?) revealed a dumpster but it was well behind a locked gate.  It was possible, if I were say, a very good basketballer (which I wasn’t), that I could lobbed the sodden BetterDry the 10 yards over the fence and into the skip but more likely, it would have bounced off the edge to lie accusingly and squishily on the adjacent sustainable concrete pad, advertising to the anarchist collective that ran the place, that a wearer of non-recyclable adult nappies was lurking amongst them.

For dinner we were bussed to an even remoter location so I was unable to manage timing or changes.  For 300 years we were subjected to a series of revoltingly organic delicacies washed down with pints of sustainable local cider and close to midnight, waddling in a bulging Molicare, I was bussed back to the compound for a nappy change and bed.

The next morning, I awoke to the delicious and relaxing sensation of an empty bladder and a wet nappy.  It was wet, very wet.  It felt very wet.  I felt very wet.  Parts of it felt COOL and wet.  Thank the deity of your choosing that I had worn my dual-layer terry lined waterproofs over them because they were soaked: the Molicare had failed and how.  At least the bed was dry.

Now, I had a sopping terry nappy of recycled cider and pee-wet waterproofs along with a used Molicare the size of a dead chicken in a bin-free, laundry-free, privacy-free hipster commune and it was only 7am on day 2…

Rinsing the terries and draping them optimistically close to a heater, I surveyed the 3.2 metric tons worth of wet nappies in a rubbish bag.  With no obvious alternative and a downstairs foyer filled with colleagues, I sneaked out the back door into the freezing winter dawn gloom, to walk the 400 meters or so to the local “village” taking my rubbish bag of nappies with me.  If anybody asked, my cover story was that I was taking my dog for walkies but since it was dead, it went walkies with me in a rubbish bag. 

Eventually I reached the “general store” whose prime products appeared to be Kombucha and sanctimony, and yes, there was a very small series of council bins out the front: different bins for different types of ecologically responsible renewables.  The one for “general waste” (“landfill” presumably being a politically incorrect label) had a letter box slot instead of an opening.  I spent an embarrassing 30 years (I think it was 30 seconds but it seemed like 30 years) extruding sodden adult nappies through a small slot before scuttling back to the venue to eat cornflakes out of a hemp bag.

And so it went on…  One challenge after another, after another.

The sessions themselves were in smallish groups in smallish rooms and I was painfully conscious of my nappies.  Consequentially, I kept forgetting to relax before realising I needed to pee.  Regardless of that, I was probably peeing every 15 minutes or so and accordingly, localised flooding was avoided.  I don’t think my colleagues noticed that I uniquely, never seemed to be queueing for the bathroom.

Each nappy change however, expanded magnitude of my waste challenge.

On the last day (it was pouring rain) I just gave in and left a rubbish bag filled with wet nappies beside the uselessly microscopic rubbish-bin-mug in the bathroom and checked out earning my “now-the-chambermaid-knows-you-wear-diapers” badge.   I hope the renewable alpacas in the car park enjoyed them.

Of course, checking out before the last day of sessions led to a new problem, by the Friday afternoon, my BetterDry was soaked and I was looking at a 2-hour bus ride back to the airport.  I needed to change BEFORE we left the venue and I no longer had a hotel room to do it in.  And no, hipster-ville did NOT feature disabled bathrooms so I went on to earn my “ripping adult diaper tapes off noisily in a small public toilet” badge.  The toilet was empty but I am certain the sound of the tapes and rustling of plastic pants was heard by all hipsters, chickens and alpacas at both this and neighbouring venues.

And then, as our bus rattled back down the mountainside, storms rolled in and our airport closed due to the weather.  I ended up getting back home at 1am in a BetterDry that even I could smell had seen better days.

Yep, sometimes 24/7 can be a pain.

[deewet]

A great example of how far we have moved from reality in the "save the environment" effort!   It is one thing to be environmentally frugal, and avoid land fills in favor of incinerators and recycle metals and plastics,   but keep some sanity in this process as we still have to be able to go about our daily lives as we are supposed to be a civilized culture  I believe, not totally irrational due to some ultra purist extremist beliefs!  At end of the day, we in the western cultures are only a smaller portion of the global population, so even if we revert back to stone age living, the rest of the world will continue to do what they do daily, and nothing changes.  

[Newbee]

Hi Onzl,

im sorry to hear about your recent drama but I’m glad you made it through.