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Do only "Born again Christians go to heaven?"


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A man who worked for our family does not believe in the 'near hereafter' .

He respects those who are Christians, but says that "When you are dead, you are dead"

This saddened me, because he is a good, honest, kind, sober man, who has worked hard and not been bitter about disappointments in life. He is skillful, he was fatherless, he helps widdows, he is not boastful and I am blessed to have known him for over 50 years.

At a "Businessmen's Full Gospel" dinner last week, the speaker asked us all to renew our prayer to BE BORN AGAIN in Christ, "For no man cometh to the Father but by Me", and in the wonderful way that the Holy Spirit reveals things, I now have the answer to something that has worried me for many years.

Where is their place in heaven for those who lived a righteous life, either without hearing of Jesus of before he was born?

The answer is "No man cometh to the Father, but by Me". If Jesus sees the good works that a man does on earth and approves of him, He will meet him and take him to His Father in heaven.

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Looks like you answered you own question there: 

On 11/14/2018 at 8:04 AM, Wet Knight said:

Where is their place in heaven for those who lived a righteous life, either without hearing of Jesus of before he was born?

The answer is "No man cometh to the Father, but by Me". If Jesus sees the good works that a man does on earth and approves of him, He will meet him and take him to His Father in heaven.

 

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Let's be rational, he himself not believing in 'near hearafter' suggests he's proud of the life he's led and is well satisfied with it (and by the sound of it, he has a plenty of good reasons to be) in order not to be desperately hoping for having another go at life after death, and is content with death being the end.

And that's wonderful. That's freedom.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/18/2018 at 12:55 PM, DiapersOfTheStorm said:

And that's wonderful. That's freedom.

Well, when it comes to Christ, I think the man is living in him already.  I think he’s covered.

 

im certainly not!  It is BEYOND me why anyone wants to “go to heaven”. Heeeeelll no!  That place is GENUINE DEATH.  Unending, eternal, unchanging, ceaseless light and that ain’t how I play, dawg!  I got me a universe to play with and suffer and grow and etc already!  Staaay awaaaay from the light!

 

...that’s just me, though.  You all are free to pray for my lost lost soul.  But, for what it’s worth, i don’t think Christ is an anger-based guy.  If you want to know which kids are on his ANGRY list, see that little part about him in the temple.  Like it says on the side of my van “Jesus loves everyone....EXCEPT BANKERS”

 

.....a spiritual business meeting, you say?  Hmm...

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  • 1 month later...

I personally have always understood that the Bible clearly says that man sleeps until Christ's return and then we rule here on Earth for 1000 years and then are taken to heaven. believe it or not everybody in the whole world whether they believe or not, will be given that chance for themselves to see God and to the side right then and there if they believe. Unfortunately we are not and cannot be judged by our works alone. All you can do is pray for this man and hope that he finds Christ himself maybe you can talk to him about it.

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According to the writings becoming Christian and being "Born again" are one and the same.

This appears to be a bioligical variable. At about the time these sort of things happened, and not just in the Near East, but just about anywhere, the age when one does this sort of thing is the same as when the brain is finishing the transition to the adult level of development. Brain development takes place in two ways 1. makinig nes structures and 2. making new connections in existing structures. The net result is that you "feel like a new man". The difference in processing is that different. it is 'taking it to the next level"

This business appears to have started in the 8th centruy BCE. The beginnings of the Bible as a written and codified work co-incide with the beginnings of Greek Philosophy as an activity, with the Buddha being born towards the tail end of that 450 year period

The Bible is very different from what you think

This, and other things, served as the observational material for Julius Jaynes' THE BICAMERAL MIND (which actually positied the opposite of how it is taken)

 

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=niJFXLy7D-ei_QaC8rvoDA&q=julian+jaynes+bicameral+mind&oq=julius+jaynes+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i13l10.4381.17864..38702...0.0..0.335.2377.0j14j0j1....2..0....1..gws-wiz.....0..35i39j0j0i131j0i22i30j33i160.g3w_POg1fWM

 

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REally? Read what is said about "unbelievers"

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What I get from that is that one is not rightfully entitled to change one's mind, called "apostasy" and one of the characteristics of a mind-control cult which fits the paradigm or ANY system, such as Soveit Communism, Naziism and other totalitarian entities that indoctrinate those too young to make full, informed and rational choice and chose voluntarily to join or not based on honest evaluation and consideration. Observe that the cult leader or figure is the end-all and be-all . "the alpha and the omega" of existence, to whom or which all must "surrender" their lives (and judgement) if Big Brothers says "2+2=5" then all must act as if that is so. Belief, or "faith" transcends and is set above fact and some kind of "supernatural" or other deterministic structure or cosmology is used to invalidated individual judgement with obedience being the prime virtue. There are many things that I onced believed that, upon gathering facts and evidence, I no longer believe. This is the same attitude that the Taliaban and Islamic theocrats have toward "apostates" and you know wha THEY do: The same as the Christians used to do

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome

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John 14:6 KJV- Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the light, and No man cometh to the Father but by me." Ye must be born on again for on the day we stand before mighty God, if your name does not appear in the Lamb's Book of Life. God will say, "Depart from me I never knew you." However after judgement, if your name appears in the Lambs book of life according to scripture God will welcome us into Heaven because we are forgiven of our sin by putting our faith in  and accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and PERSONAL Savior. 

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On 12/16/2018 at 11:59 AM, OVerpraiseD said:

Well, when it comes to Christ, I think the man is living in him already.  I think he’s covered.

 

im certainly not!  It is BEYOND me why anyone wants to “go to heaven”. Heeeeelll no!  That place is GENUINE DEATH.  Unending, eternal, unchanging, ceaseless light and that ain’t how I play, dawg!  I got me a universe to play with and suffer and grow and etc already!  Staaay awaaaay from the light!

 

...that’s just me, though.  You all are free to pray for my lost lost soul.  But, for what it’s worth, i don’t think Christ is an anger-based guy.  If you want to know which kids are on his ANGRY list, see that little part about him in the temple.  Like it says on the side of my van “Jesus loves everyone....EXCEPT BANKERS”

 

.....a spiritual business meeting, you say?  Hmm...

God, gave His only Son for our sins. Committed and Born into because of Adam and Eve.

John 3:16 KJV For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, that whomever believe in Him, should not perish(be judged by God a sinner) but have everlasting life.

What most people fail to understand that worst thing that can happen is a separation from God for eternity. This is to truly know loneliness.

It also says that the next time Jesus comes back, he won't be this passive person, but a warrior. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/19/2018 at 7:25 AM, DiapersOfTheStorm said:

Let's be rational, he himself not believing in 'near hearafter' suggests he's proud of the life he's led and is well satisfied with it (and by the sound of it, he has a plenty of good reasons to be) in order not to be desperately hoping for having another go at life after death, and is content with death being the end.

And that's wonderful. That's freedom.

Until he dies and God judges him to be a sinner. not freedom at all. Quite the reverse.

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Not only you have zero evidence that God would do that, you can't even provide evidence independent of your feelings that he exists. You keep worrying about how God would react to your actions and the actions of others with the Bible (something that is objectively immoral in numerous areas) as an absolute morality (which is something can't even really exist) reference on  what sort of behavior he'd want from you, while people like this man instead focus on having other people's well being in mind, doing what's objectively good for them (objective morality; not absolute morality), with the objectivity being based on reality of the world. That gives him clear conscience. He does good things for people because of empathy, because of that altruistic part of us that we as a social species have (in a healthy balance with our own egoism, as being either too altruistic or too egoistic is not to our long term benefit). He's not doing good out of fear of hell, but because he's naturally good, as opposed to people who will outright tell you they would go around stealing, murdering and raping people if it wasn't for their fear of God's punishment. He doesn't have to fear God or hell, because, one, there's no rational reason to have that fear, and second, he knows thanks to his empathy, that he hasn't done bad things to people that would warrant reprecussions.

That's how he is free and you are not. 

Edit: Not doing wrong things because I'm capable of recognizing the harmful effect, despite being able to get away with it, is morally superior to not doing wrong things out of fear of punishment. Especially when the punishment doesn't reverse the harm done to the wronged party.

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On 2/20/2019 at 1:06 AM, rosalie.bent said:

Until he dies and God judges him to be a sinner. not freedom at all. Quite the reverse.

Hmm... Do you realy know how God will judge...?  Meanwhile I'm atheist - in the meaning that I don't believe in over natural things. But there was a time where I thought different. How ever - I never understood why people thing that they can tell, what God will - or will not do - or what God makes happy and what not. I mean - if you believe into this - it's God. So no one knows what God will do. In the moment you start thinking about what he will do or how he will judge you have to start of thinking like God - and that's sin ;-)...  So for those who believe there is the hope of redemption, that's what they can share. And of cause the love they receive in the believing into God and Jesus...   

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On 11/19/2018 at 7:25 AM, DiapersOfTheStorm said:

Let's be rational, he himself not believing in 'near hearafter' suggests he's proud of the life he's led and is well satisfied with it (and by the sound of it, he has a plenty of good reasons to be) in order not to be desperately hoping for having another go at life after death, and is content with death being the end.

And that's wonderful. That's freedom.

It's not freedom if he is wrong.

Opinion matter naught in this issues. Only truth matters.

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4 hours ago, rosalie.bent said:

Opinion matter naught in this issues. Only truth matters.

You‘r right. But who know what is thruth but the father himself? And you know luke 6:37...? ?

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When I hear that only those who are born again and have accepted Jesus as their savior go to heaven, I think about all the people born before Christ, all who’ve never heard of him, all the good people who have heard of him and have lived just lives without being born again, and I ask myself, if a man is saved by faith alone, and only alone, what does that say about the savior, who would damn all these people?

To me, it says that how you treat your fellow creatures doesn’t matter to the savior.

It says, to me, that all the savior cares about is a person submitting to him.

That savior is a narcissist who cares more being worshipped than he does about his people. 

I don’t want that savior. I wouldn’t keep a friend like that, leave alone worship someone like that.

And what’s more, a person cannot freely consent - accept - to worship a being that hangs damnation over his head if he chooses otherwise. That’s not accepting Christ; that’s being coerced.

So no, I do not believe only born again people go to heaven, because I do believe in a loving god, and a loving god wouldn’t do that.

But those are only my opinions.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have been "all over the map" on this topic and on the topic of faith in general.  

I have been (and on most days) I still am a believer.  However, I have been at one time a "Born-Again Christian", a Mormon, an agnostic, and an atheist. 

Yet one book (not the Bible) got me to see that I was asking the wrong questions about faith. 

I highly recommend that you read "The Life of Pi." 

No other "secular" book will strengthen your faith and lead you to ask the "right questions."

From the book, The Life of Pi.

Investigators: "Which story is true?"

Pi: "Which one did you like better?"

Investigators: "Well, I suppose the one with animals."

Pi: "So it is with God."

https://stillindiapers.wordpress.com/

9780156027328_p1_v4_s550x406.jpg

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  • 1 month later...
On 11/19/2018 at 7:25 AM, DiapersOfTheStorm said:

Let's be rational, he himself not believing in 'near hearafter' suggests he's proud of the life he's led and is well satisfied with it (and by the sound of it, he has a plenty of good reasons to be) in order not to be desperately hoping for having another go at life after death, and is content with death being the end.

And that's wonderful. That's freedom.

Until he is dead and faces God for judgement and has to account for his sins. He will feel like a fool then. And he is a fool now as well.

On 3/3/2019 at 5:52 AM, Author_Alex said:

When I hear that only those who are born again and have accepted Jesus as their savior go to heaven, I think about all the people born before Christ, all who’ve never heard of him, all the good people who have heard of him and have lived just lives without being born again, and I ask myself, if a man is saved by faith alone, and only alone, what does that say about the savior, who would damn all these people?

To me, it says that how you treat your fellow creatures doesn’t matter to the savior.

It says, to me, that all the savior cares about is a person submitting to him.

That savior is a narcissist who cares more being worshipped than he does about his people. 

I don’t want that savior. I wouldn’t keep a friend like that, leave alone worship someone like that.

And what’s more, a person cannot freely consent - accept - to worship a being that hangs damnation over his head if he chooses otherwise. That’s not accepting Christ; that’s being coerced.

So no, I do not believe only born again people go to heaven, because I do believe in a loving god, and a loving god wouldn’t do that.

But those are only my opinions.

The problem is that it is only your opinions. The FACTS say something very different. You can complain all you like but God is God and He makes the rules.

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I am Catholic and take my faith very seriously. I have immense guilt every time I partake in this fetish, although nowadays it's taking a form of pornography rather than actually wearing. I frequent the confessional...and I wouldn't have it any other way. Those who don't know the salvific grace of God will never understand what makes the desire to renounce diapers, at least outside of marriage, worth the struggle.

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On 5/28/2019 at 10:33 PM, rosalie.bent said:

Until he is dead and faces God for judgement and has to account for his sins. He will feel like a fool then. And he is a fool now as well.

The problem is that it is only your opinions. The FACTS say something very different. You can complain all you like but God is God and He makes the rules.

Lmfao "FACTS" ?

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  • 4 weeks later...

You're the one making a positive claim so it's Your duty to back it up with EVIDENCE (anecdotes of personal experiences are not evidence). 

Nobody is obligated to disprove anything. That's not how it works. Unfortunately religious folks like you have a tendency to invent their own logic, aside from their own facts. 

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A man who worked for our family does not believe in the 'near hereafter' .

He respects those who are Christians, but says that "When you are dead, you are dead"

This saddened me, because he is a good, honest, kind, sober man, who has worked hard and not been bitter about disappointments in life. He is skillful, he was fatherless, he helps widdows, he is not boastful and I am blessed to have known him for over 50 years.

At a "Businessmen's Full Gospel" dinner last week, the speaker asked us all to renew our prayer to BE BORN AGAIN in Christ, "For no man cometh to the Father but by Me", and in the wonderful way that the Holy Spirit reveals things, I now have the answer to something that has worried me for many years.

Where is their place in heaven for those who lived a righteous life, either without hearing of Jesus of before he was born?

The answer is "No man cometh to the Father, but by Me". If Jesus sees the good works that a man does on earth and approves of him, He will meet him and take him to His Father in heaven.
The fact of the matter is you must be saved to go to Heaven. There are no amount of good deeds that will get you into Heaven. Our deeds are as filthy rags to God.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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