2sail2 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-pulp-focus/pulp-problems-why-shoppers-may-pay-more-for-tissues-toilet-paper-idUSKBN1KL1I6 Link to comment
Darkfinn Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 As we reduce our reliance on cheap imported Chinese shit prices for goods will naturally rise. Wages, however, will also rise as domestic manufacturing jobs are created. Link to comment
Little BabyDoll Christine Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Actually, wages will not rise THAT much. the cheap imports, made offshore in 3rd world countries where $10/day is big coin and that are hungry for work and industry; and act the part, have protected the buyers from the cost increases generated by the oceans of regulations; often to the tune of 60,000/yr and none of which were passed by Congress; all by the Executive Branch, that have been passed over the past 45 years which were, as one person put it in '78 "wreaking havoc on American industry". Now it is about to catch up with us. If you know anyone in business, ask about the cost of government-generated paperwork and dealing with a government that not only wants everything in triplicate but also will not pay its debts on time. And look up the etymology of "red tape". And THEY have first dibs on everthing Link to comment
2sail2 Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 I was wondering how to "combat" this increase? Maybe buy a cheaper brand, but get a stuffer? Maybe buy cloth with a stuffer? Link to comment
barnburner Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 On 8/1/2018 at 10:19 AM, Darkfinn said: As we reduce our reliance on cheap imported Chinese shit prices for goods will naturally rise. Wages, however, will also rise as domestic manufacturing jobs are created. I dont see how many jobs this could create, used to be 10 people to operate 10 machines, but now its looking to be 1 person for every 10 machines. Link to comment
Little BabyDoll Christine Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 On 8/1/2018 at 10:19 AM, Darkfinn said: As we reduce our reliance on cheap imported Chinese shit prices for goods will naturally rise. Wages, however, will also rise as domestic manufacturing jobs are created. Not necessarily, there may be other 3rd world countries willing to do the work and fill that place in the market, like Indonesia, Mexico or India/Pakistan Link to comment
Angela Bauer Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 6 hours ago, Little Christine said: Not necessarily, there may be other 3rd world countries willing to do the work and fill that place in the market, like Indonesia, Mexico or India/Pakistan Actually currently there are disposable diaper factories in many Latin and South American countries besides Mexico. Link to comment
Little BabyDoll Christine Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 35 minutes ago, Angela Bauer said: Actually currently there are disposable diaper factories in many Latin and South American countries besides Mexico. Thanks, I was wondering about that Link to comment
Firefly 35 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 16 hours ago, barnburner said: I dont see how many jobs this could create, used to be 10 people to operate 10 machines, but now its looking to be 1 person for every 10 machines. That sounds rather high. Even in highly automated factories, they will need some people to do jobs that the machines can't, and even if it's fully automated, they will need engineers/technicians to fix broken or malfunctioning machines. I've been on a tour of a metalworking factory, so this comes from experience. On 8/1/2018 at 10:47 PM, Little Christine said: Actually, wages will not rise THAT much. the cheap imports, made offshore in 3rd world countries where $10/day is big coin and that are hungry for work and industry; and act the part, have protected the buyers from the cost increases generated by the oceans of regulations; often to the tune of 60,000/yr and none of which were passed by Congress; all by the Executive Branch, that have been passed over the past 45 years which were, as one person put it in '78 "wreaking havoc on American industry". Now it is about to catch up with us. If you know anyone in business, ask about the cost of government-generated paperwork and dealing with a government that not only wants everything in triplicate but also will not pay its debts on time. And look up the etymology of "red tape". And THEY have first dibs on everthing There are still be some regulations for outsourcing as well, which would require coordinating with someone halfway around the world. So I don't think companies would save much in that regard by outsourcing. The biggest reason for outsourcing is so that companies can pay well below minimum wages and evade the penalties for doing so. Link to comment
Little BabyDoll Christine Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Firefly 35 said: That sounds rather high. Even in highly automated factories, they will need some people to do jobs that the machines can't, and even if it's fully automated, they will need engineers/technicians to fix broken or malfunctioning machines. I've been on a tour of a metalworking factory, so this comes from experience. There are still be some regulations for outsourcing as well, which would require coordinating with someone halfway around the world. So I don't think companies would save much in that regard by outsourcing. The biggest reason for outsourcing is so that companies can pay well below minimum wages and evade the penalties for doing so. As well as the tax headaches that go with it, the environmental regs and the various impact statements. And like I said in these countries 10/day is big enough coin to beat what the local economy has to offer Link to comment
Bettypooh Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Let's not veer too far off-topic here This is more about the commodities prices than the labor costs of manufacturing. This world has nothing in unlimited quantities. Whatever is being spoken of, there is a limit of it's availability. The trees which are providing our diaper pulp are diminishing in number and the shipping costs increasing, thus it's costing more for us in the end. Part of the problem does lay in laws, regulations, and restrictions, but perhaps equal to that is that we're using up the world's trees faster than they are being re-grown. That is truly a shame since there are few things as easily renewable as trees which require almost nothing from us after planting except patience This problem has been going on for a very long time now. Certain species, such as the beautiful Circassian Walnut, have been harvested to the point where they are almost totally gone now. The few still surviving are being protected from harvest, but being that it takes hundreds of years to grow them, their availability for use has effectively ended forever as the once large forests of them will never be re-grown and the areas which they once grew in are being developed for other purposes. The same is happening with other species, and with all old-growth forests in general worldwide. We are simply using them up faster than we're replacing them, and as the supply dwindles their market value increases. I'm not much of an expert regards the pulp used in diapers, but I do know that here in the southern US, almost all the focus on reforestation has been on fast-growing pine species- a softwood with poor qualities for all of today's purposes. That approach has been taken as being the one which gives the best short-term profits for the forest management companies. It is only in recent times that there has been a growing voice eschewing this approach and calling for better long-term forest management. We see the same failures occurring with non-sustainable resources as no alternatives are sought until the need becomes critical. Recycling has not taken hold here to mitigate the issues except where it is profitable to do so right now. We've taken the approach that our issues can be ignored almost completely until they become problems, with little regard for there being fewer ways to successfully address the problems then versus now. It is something which neither needs to happen nor is good for us as a whole when it does happen. With there being no changes forthcoming in how we're handling the problem, the cost increases and lessening availability will continue. Nothing will be done for that until it is too late to ever regain an adequate availability of low-cost pulp for diapers, and unless a suitable substitute can be found there is no limit on how far that will go. There is also now a large demand for the higher grades of wood pulp fibers which are being used in the "engineered wood products" which are replacing the lumber which once served for the same purposses. That leaves only the lowest grades of pulp available economically, and they may not be suitable for diapers. Perhaps Angela Bauer can enlighten me as she has a more intimate knowledge of these things than I do with her industry connections Until we change how we view, manage, and use our planet's resources it is only going to get worse all around with everything. At some point we will run short of the things which life itself depends on, and then we will cease to exist as a species, perhaps taking all other forms of life with us into oblivion. I am glad that I won't be around to see that, but I can see it coming. Short-term profits do us no real good when in the long term they lead to our demise. We can do better than this if we only will. There's more to life than today, we must allow for our tomorrow's as well. Bettypooh Link to comment
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