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23 hours ago, willnotwill said:

the mods are in the habit of deleting posts without even bothering to tell people that they'd stepped over the line

If a post is against the rules and might stir up trouble we delete it, but we also let you know what happened and why so that you can avoid future problems. We'd rather not ever have to ban someone or do Mod work but this is the real world so that needs doing sometimes. If something you posted not deleted and you haven't heard why, ask any Mod about it and we will get you an answer. Do note that this does not apply when we delete an entire thread, for there are posts in there which did not break rules but could not be kept without pointing straight back to what the problem was leaving a fire just waiting to be rekindled.

As far as the banned member knowing the rules let me assure you that they most certainly did. Members aren't privy to what goes on behind the scenes here. We're not trying to hide anything, it's just that such things aren't the publics business. We do our best to be patient and tolerant here but we won't be run over or ignored. When a Mod tells you something you'd darn well pay heed to it or you might end up like this one did. 

Bettypooh

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That certainly has NOT been true in the past.   If this has change, I'm all for it.  But it has happened to my posts within the past month, so I don't think you uniformly have.   My post had been silently and inappriopriately edited to make it appear I stated something that I did not.   Fortunately, since I started the thread I could delete the libelous content.
 

However, I will still point out that the "Site Rules" don't say anything about messages about minors.   If such is taboo, I would think it would behoove you to make such a statement.

 

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Don't you remember the uproar that occurred over Tiger Underwear and the original art associated with SDK diaper?

The ban on any association between adult diapers and "real children" and ANY fetish-related contact with minors was trotted out numerous times. A few persons left DD in fear of a Federal operation

If you have not spent the last 20 years under a rock, you would have heard about the priest and other pedo scandals and you would, out of prudence and "the fear of God",  just in the tone and tenor of what was said and how it was said, avoid that kind of situation like I avoid disposable diapers and PUL/PEVA panties

If you feel you have a grievance, pick a better time and place: To quote the phrase "Is this the hill you want to die on?". It can only damage your credibility such that if you have a legitimate grievance, nobody can support you in good conscience. When I aksed if the post did  or did not mention minors, I got no answer until Bettypooh commented; that spoke volumes

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Of course, I remember, but it's 100% NON SEQUITOR to the point I'm trying to make.

\If he is so much in fear then it should be stated openly in the rules rather than allowing these inflammatory threads to be created.    

I'm not arguing that we should not bar minor content here, I feel it should be made explicity.   Yeah, those of us who are regulars know by osmosis, but there are new people on this board everyday,.

 

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There was this

and unless you have been under a rock for the last quarter century, you would know that ever since that GOP legislator with "the wide stance" was pinched. men's room encounters have been considered probably sexual by default. and any fetish encounter involving a minor, automatically so. He could have been tagged as at least a low-level sex offender just for that. And he posted it here as a true story?! which makes it even worse than in a fictional story

There has been ample opportunity for anyone to know, or figure out, that this sort of thing just does NOT go

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4 hours ago, Bettypooh said:

As far as the banned member knowing the rules let me assure you that they most certainly did. Members aren't privy to what goes on behind the scenes here. We're not trying to hide anything, it's just that such things aren't the publics business. We do our best to be patient and tolerant here but we won't be run over or ignored. When a Mod tells you something you'd darn well pay heed to it or you might end up like this one did. 

Bettypooh

Elfy did post that the offending post(s) were removed, but would be left for others to learn from. That didn't last. There should've been a unified message from all admins on the subject and signed by each of them in the announce post. It almost appears that the left hand isn't aware what the right hand is doing. (No offense intended, just reality).

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1 hour ago, willnotwill said:

Of course, I remember, but it's 100% NON SEQUITOR to the point I'm trying to make.

\If he is so much in fear then it should be stated openly in the rules rather than allowing these inflammatory threads to be created.    

I'm not arguing that we should not bar minor content here, I feel it should be made explicity.   Yeah, those of us who are regulars know by osmosis, but there are new people on this board everyday,.

 

I'm interested why you're somewhat defending him. As many people said above me, it's the law. You ideally shouldn't need to tell people "hey by the way don't expose yourself to children!" The dude knew what he was doing is fucked up and wrong, that's part of why he was getting his rocks off. Don't try to minimize what he's done by going "oh well maybe he didn't know!" 

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I'm just going to say, after comments here by an Admin no less, someone seems to be treading on thin ice.  My God, site rules or no site rules, why are we even debating content involving minors!  We can pick the fly $hit out of the pepper all day long about what may or may not have been clearly stated.  The fact is, it's just plain friggin' wrong every way you look at it to even slightly involve a minor into your diaper fetish.  Why would anyone want to even argue semantics?  Especially when that same person states in their posts things like, "I bristle against the self-appointed guardians of the ABDL community decreeing what is and is not proper behavior.    What's next?   Telling people they can't appear on TV talk shows? write articles?" and, "Frankly, there has been, in MY opinion, more damage by people trying to "police" the community than has helped us."  Also, "If you think people dancing around in public in diapers either helps or hurts our "cause" in general, you don't understand public opinion." (I would like to see your documented evidence from a wide assortment of the varied public that shows they approve of people dancing around wearing diapers in public, especially in front of children).  How about, "I have an issue with people trying to be the diaper cops to tell anybody else what legal activities they can or can't do." (and on that note, legal and illegal are beside the point when we are dealing with a forum post on this site where there are rules against some behaviors weather they are legal in the view of the law or not).  Once more, "While you are certainly free to express opinions about things, "policing" by people who claim to suddenly represent the community at large is about as abhorrent as the behaviors you're attempting to stem."  This site is privately owned by Mikey and has rules for it's membership.  It's his site and we are here by his grace and invitation only.  Mikey and his Admins are perfectly in their right to "police" this site and it's members for what they deem is against the site regulations and ban anyone for what they feel is inappropriate or a violation.  If they deem a member has gone overboard in stating an opinion, they have just as much a right to warn, reprimand or ban that member as they do to the person who showed off his diaper to a 12 year old in a bathroom stall.   Then again you have, "What this person did was not illegal, but certainly distasteful and I agree he shouldn't do it.    However, I do thing that getting up what is and is not good for the "abdl lifestyle" is pretty damned presumptuous.      I think most here are pretty deluded as to what the public can and will thing about the hobby(show us valid documentation for that statement that we are deluded into thinking the general public would not find it wrong, disgusting and even perverted to see an adult purposely showing off his diapers to people and kids around him), Some of the people revered by this board have done more to set back the cause (in my opionion) than all the diaper cowboys in the world have ever caused." (if you feel that way, why are you a member of this site then?) and probably one of the most telling, "However, I will still point out that the "Site Rules" don't say anything about messages about minors.   If such is taboo, I would think it would behoove you to make such a statement."  Seriously?  Common sense should tell anyone you don't involve minors in anyway with this fetish.  It's spelled out in enough places here on Daily Diapers, but if it's not clear enough for some, why do you think this is an adult site only with anyone under the age of 18 not allowed here as a member?  If Mikey and the Admins just sit back and allow a post from a member describing how he sat naked on a changing table in a public restroom with an adult diaper half off while kids and teens watched and he answered their questions, he himself would appear to condone that behavior and in violation of his own rules if he doesn't remove that posting and ban that member.  I'm not trying to bash anyone here and that is not my intention.  I'm responding with my own thought and replies to some of the comments made.

The focus of this thread I made was to get people to stop and think about what they are planning to do before they act on it and to use some good judgement instead of letting their hormones control them into doing something not smart, especially when in public.  That somehow has evolved into what is legal, what is in some people's opinion not something we should be concerned about, who may be trampling on the rights of others to just do as they please and how we shouldn't be criticizing the behavior of someone sitting naked on a baby changing table in a public restroom with a diaper half on and the stall door wide open purposely waiting for the next random person to walk in and see him, even when that next person may be a kid.  Why the hell would someone defend the rights of a person to do do something like that, especially when that person has stated over and over in their posts, " I agree what he did was not in anybody's best interest", "Not only did I warn him against it, I questioned his motives for bragging about it here" and, "What this person did was not illegal, but certainly distasteful and I agree he shouldn't do it."  I just don't know why this argument and seemingly defence of the type of thing this guy did is still going on here. 

willnotwill, I state this not in any way to bash you and I say this with all due respect, but as some unsolicited advice from what I have been observing here.  At the risk of seeming to appear to be a "self-appointed guardians of the ABDL community decreeing what is and is not proper behavior", you seem to be having an issue with admins and site policy.  The way things are going, we might shortly find you no longer here if you keep persisting on the road you are taking. I agree that we don't want to end up with a George Orwell "Big Brother" situation having someone tell us what we can and can't do to that extent, but the purpose of this thread (and no one can say any different since I am the originator of it) is not weather You might think what someone does is proper behavior or not, weather by law it's legal or illegal, weather someone has the right to complain and say they think it's wrong behavior or not, etc.  It's simply, "Think Before You Act!"  Stop and let better judgement prevail.  Don't let your dick do the talking for your brain!  If you have thought about what you are going to do out in public for a day or so, then go and do it anyway instead of saying, "I don't think this is really a good idea", you deserve to have people here on this site state that they think what you have done is wrong, sick, perverted and against the rules of Daily Diapers membership.  The person who has done such a thing may have consequences from the public, the law, who knows.  Maybe it's not illegal to sit naked on a baby changing table with the stall door open and a diaper half on covering your genitals because your privets are tecnically covered, but it can perhaps fall under other laws about indecent behavior.  That is still not the point!  Think before you act!  If you still act on something people believe is stupid behavior because you didn't take heed of someone's advice to think first before acting, those members giving you the advice have a right to say it was a dumb stupid thing they thought you did without being accused of being the "diaper police" or policing someone!   

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Hey longtime member here giving my 2 cents on the deal of purposefully exposing your diapers to others which is for many situations DO NOT INVOLVE OTHER PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WANT TO BE PART OF IT.

However there are situations where i deem it acceptable to show your diapers on purpose i.e. disposing of used ones after getting change in a public washroom, or when sunbathing at the beach. In either case while you are "exposing" your diapers to others the methodology and reasoning for doing so are very different from I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT ME AND SEE FOR THE FREAK I AM aspect of exposing your diapers.

There's been several times at work when my diapers have peaked over my jeans, shorts, or uniform while out side my house and i just readjust my shirt or jacket so that way to any outsiders looking on at my activities it says. Yes i wear and use diapers but its not that big of a deal and I'm not going to broach the subject unless you want to talk with me about it, then I'll explain it in a way that is conservative while helping them to understand this is who i am as a person and its not a big deal.

I understand that not everyone has that kinda of capabilities and self control that I do but it is our duty as responsible members of this community to help teach new members that kind of respect and self control for others outside of our community, and to those people that continuously refuse to or don't want to learn this lesson then it is important to establish the difference between us as a community and those who try to break us and stand strong against them and reaffirm the lessons we have learned and are willing to teach to those who want to learn.

Sorry for the Rant,

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On 6/30/2018 at 12:04 AM, Little Christine said:

persons who impose their kink on others certainly are lowlifes

This. It’s so simple. Treat everyone else like a human being, not an object to use, and almost every question of how to act is resolved.

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50 minutes ago, Winterswarrior said:

Hey longtime member here giving my 2 cents on the deal of purposefully exposing your diapers to others which is for many situations DO NOT INVOLVE OTHER PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WANT TO BE PART OF IT.

However there are situations where i deem it acceptable to show your diapers on purpose i.e. disposing of used ones after getting change in a public washroom, or when sunbathing at the beach. In either case while you are "exposing" your diapers to others the methodology and reasoning for doing so are very different from I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT ME AND SEE FOR THE FREAK I AM aspect of exposing your diapers.

There's been several times at work when my diapers have peaked over my jeans, shorts, or uniform while out side my house and i just readjust my shirt or jacket so that way to any outsiders looking on at my activities it says. Yes i wear and use diapers but its not that big of a deal and I'm not going to broach the subject unless you want to talk with me about it, then I'll explain it in a way that is conservative while helping them to understand this is who i am as a person and its not a big deal.

I understand that not everyone has that kinda of capabilities and self control that I do but it is our duty as responsible members of this community to help teach new members that kind of respect and self control for others outside of our community, and to those people that continuously refuse to or don't want to learn this lesson then it is important to establish the difference between us as a community and those who try to break us and stand strong against them and reaffirm the lessons we have learned and are willing to teach to those who want to learn.

Sorry for the Rant,

I would say that any deliberate; i.e. "on purpose [done knowingly, willfully and actively]" exposure of diapers, especially in connection with fetishes, is exhibitionism, or it would not be "on purpose" since that is the only purpose it could serve. if it is a by-product of some other action it is a side effect and not deliberate, but if it is "on purpose", the purpose it is on can be only one thing and is a step on the road to being "that guy". Once one says one is doing it "on purpose" any attempts to deny or diminish that "on purpose" is just trying to evade what one knows to be true by saying "only a little [drug addicts used to call it 'chipping']" or some other self-disinformation. "On purpose" means "I WANTED to do it that way because [pick your poison] and get the results I got" and is at least uncouth. JUST DON'T and save yourself the perp walk at age 50, that is waiting for you as you get bolder and bolder as the thrill monster demands more and bigger chunks of food. Ask any addict if he thought he would be, or wanted to be, an addict when he started out

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4 hours ago, violetta said:

I'm interested why you're somewhat defending him. As many people said above me, it's the law. You ideally shouldn't need to tell people "hey by the way don't expose yourself to children!" The dude knew what he was doing is fucked up and wrong, that's part of why he was getting his rocks off. Don't try to minimize what he's done by going "oh well maybe he didn't know!" 

I'm not defending him.  I spoke up to him in the original thread and told him he shouldn't do it.   Calm down and listen to what I have written here.  I've specifically disavowed the behavior.   What we're talking about here is the behavior of the other POSTERS and the forum MODERATORS, not the now banned user.


AGAIN I AM NOT DEBATING THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE TALKING ABOUT MESSING AROUND IN FRONT OF MINORS.

I"M SAYING THAT IF IT IS BANNED (WHICH IT SHOULD BE), IT SHOULD BE IN THE FORUM RULES.

Make it clear to those coming in, that this isn't tolerated, and we won't end up in this rathole.


SHEESH.  NOBODY IS FREAKING LISTENING TO WHAT I AM SAYING.     You''re all too busy riding your damned high  horses to understand that I'm agreeing with you.   I'm just proposing a civil way to avoid this.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, willnotwill said:

I'm not defending him.  I spoke up to him in the original thread and told him he shouldn't do it.   Calm down and listen to what I have written here.  I've specifically disavowed the behavior.   What we're talking about here is the behavior of the other POSTERS and the forum MODERATORS, not the now banned user.


AGAIN I AM NOT DEBATING THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE TALKING ABOUT MESSING AROUND IN FRONT OF MINORS.

I"M SAYING THAT IF IT IS BANNED (WHICH IT SHOULD BE), IT SHOULD BE IN THE FORUM RULES.

Make it clear to those coming in, that this isn't tolerated, and we won't end up in this rathole.


SHEESH.  NOBODY IS FREAKING LISTENING TO WHAT I AM SAYING.     You''re all too busy riding your damned high  horses to understand that I'm agreeing with you.   I'm just proposing a civil way to avoid this.

 

 

You would think it being banned in the law would be enough to deter people from talking about it in a forum, but sure. Also don't we have a post that said something like "no underage characters in stories" or something like that? I would think that's also enough for people to figure out it's frowned upon.

 

But sure, let's put "don't be a pedophile" in our forum rules, why not.

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The issue is that it ISN'T necessarily banned in the law (at least not in the US).   Federally, in the US it takes either nudity (meaning genitals) or a sexual act, or a graphic depiction to be illegal.  Just talking about it isn't.    Further, there's an unstated rule that they don't even want to hear about people arrested for things like child abuse, though they've never come out and say it.   Frankly, I think as important as this issue is to both the legality and more importantly the public perception of the forum, that not only that we ban the under 18 here, we're not going to talk about the under 18 (or whatever the limit is deemed to be) be stated.  

As I pointed out, the act of the guy who started this discussion wasn't illegal in most states in the US, just rather improper.     

I don't have any problem with DD setting rules, but it doesn't do much good to have rules if they're not stated.    And this one is a biggie.    Betty's site rules bar homophobia, racism, or sexism, but one would think that since the general perception is we're a bunch of pedophiles, that the anti-youth statement be made explicit.

 

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Perhaps you should contact Mikey or another Admin and ask them nicely if they can show you on the site where it talks about banned members in the forum rules, since one point you are trying to make is, "IT SHOULD BE IN THE FORUM RULES.  Make it clear to those coming in, that this isn't tolerated"  Perhaps Mikey or an Admin can tell you specifically where to look for that information on the site, and if it's not there or not clear, maybe they can modify the site to explain it in more detail.  I don't think you should have to post it for every aspect of this site, the chat, posted photos, forums, etc.  I think the rule against involving minors should cover everything, period and I think most people know and understand that without having to have every little thing on this site questioned and spelled out.  It's not Rocket Science here.  No Minors is a blanket rule that covers everything including forum posts.  That should be clear and obvious to everyone without question.

 Now, you also stated, "SHEESH.  NOBODY IS FREAKING LISTENING TO WHAT I AM SAYING.  The issue is that it ISN'T necessarily banned in the law (at least not in the US).   Federally, in the US it takes either nudity (meaning genitals) or a sexual act, or a graphic depiction to be illegal.  Just talking about it isn't.    Further, there's an unstated rule that they don't even want to hear about people arrested for things like child abuse, though they've never come out and say it.   Frankly, I think as important as this issue is to both the legality and more importantly the public perception of the forum, that not only that we ban the under 18 here, we're not going to talk about the under 18 (or whatever the limit is deemed to be) be stated.  As I pointed out, the act of the guy who started this discussion wasn't illegal in most states in the US, just rather improper.     I don't have any problem with DD setting rules, but it doesn't do much good to have rules if they're not stated."  What seems to me is you also may not be listening when you keep referring to the law in the United States about nudity, sexual acts and graphic details.  As I have stated, it may not be illegal by definition of US or Federal law, but that is not the point when it comes down to a discussion about those kind of activities here.  It matters not weather it's legal in a court of law, what matters is it's against the rules of the Daily Diapers website and talking about it and posting details of being nude except a half on diaper covering your genitals in the open stall of a public restroom for people and kids to see when they walk in violates the rules of involving minors, even if all you are doing is talking about it or relaying your experiences in doing so.  I know you stated,  "I don't have any problem with DD setting rules" but you keep coming back to the argument of what is legal by law.  Ask Mikey or an Admin to tell you specifically where to look for those rules.  You say, "it doesn't do much good to have rules if they're not stated."  but personally I don't think it needs to be spelled out in huge letters across every single page of the website that involving minors under the age of 18 violates the site rules and that also implies and includes discussions of your acts that have involved minors in your diaper activities posted in the forums, in the photo gallery or discussed in the chat room.  That should be implied everywhere on this site with the basic rules regarding no involvement with minors which everyone is required to read and understand when joining.  No offence, but It just sounds like you are trying to make excuses for someone being banned for what they posted in the forum that goes against the rules of the website because there isn't a specific notice posted when entering the forums that specifically says not to write or discuss things that involve or have involved minors under the age of 18.  People should automatically know that without having to be specifically told it's wrong and trying to come up with excuses sounds pretty lame to me.

 

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Legality is our minimum standard of behaviour, but if that is all we ever abide by, we will constantly be in trouble - just not legal trouble. ABDLs are not respected by the community for reasons that area largely ignorant and unreasonable.  But we can debate and defend ABDL using facts and truth. The LAST thing we need is the stupid nonsense by the fringe that lables the rest as something they are not.

The whole discussion of ethics and morality is that it is a HIGHER standard than mere legality. This is why I oppose those who go out publicly in just diapers since it can only make things worse for everyone else.

I applaud the responses of members to criticise this. In a way, I do understand the drive that caused him to do this, but at the same time, we do have to build boundaries around our behaviour and make those boundaries strong and rigid.

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I will see about adding something to the rules. Just not right now unless another Admin handles it. With a full-sized PC doing rules changes took me over an hour, and right now all I have is a crappy tablet. And I ain't got 3-4 hours of frustrations filled time to devote to it.

As to Admins not having a consensus, I was asleep when this happened. It was nighttime here but daytime where Elfy is. If something needs doing whoever happens to be here handles it, and once an Admin acts they generally take care of that without anyone else jumping in. Anything big usually gets put up for Admin discussion which members don't see.  So as far as is practical we do have a consensus, just a loose one handled differently than usual.  

Again, this one knew the rule. Had it been someone who might not know it would have been handled differently. Since there's not much else to be said here I am locking this thread, posting a note to the other Admins, and letting them decide what to do from here

Bettypooh

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