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8 hours ago, Brudda Voodu said:

Why do you need her to believe that religion can't help cure people people of this or any other thing?  You made your point, can't you move on now?

This whole thread has turned into a religious debate and should be moved to the Littles of Faith sub forum

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It started as a mislabeled religious thread with a link to a religion-centered post elsewhere as it's focus. I'll be happy to move it elsewhere upon the OP's request.

I'm not against Rosalie at all- she's done worlds of good for the ABDL community with her published writings and they have reached people who would otherwise not have had any interest in us, or perhaps had misconceptions about us. And that was done with some public exposure involved - something few of us would dare to do :thumbsup:

We just see some things differently, that's all ;)

Bettypooh

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18 hours ago, iweardiapers said:

Good for him I guess. I’m a Christian too but would I ever give this part of me up? Not a chance, wearing just plain old underwear all the time would be boring. There’s nothing like that nice feeling of padding between your legs with the occasional binky and baba. I believe God can take away anything though because there is nothing impossible unto HIM I just personally love my diapers and I’m sure God understands as long as I keep HIM first 

I think you are part of the great majority in that. But it also sounds as if you have it more-or-less under control. That;s not true for everyone and not matter what it is, if something is causing you disruption and distress in your life, you ought to deal with it. ABDL of course, is typically not curable but IS manageable. In this case, God chose to perform a pretty extraordinary miracle which included the return of perfect bladder continence after a lifetime of bedwetting. It is a substantial event.

I do not beleive that ABDL is sinful in itself, but if it leads to other sins or disruptions, it is something that needs to be controlled. Thats basic Bible 101.

4 hours ago, Bettypooh said:

It started as a mislabeled religious thread with a link to a religion-centered post elsewhere as it's focus. I'll be happy to move it elsewhere upon the OP's request.

I'm not against Rosalie at all- she's done worlds of good for the ABDL community with her published writings and they have reached people who would otherwise not have had any interest in us, or perhaps had misconceptions about us. And that was done with some public exposure involved - something few of us would dare to do :thumbsup:

We just see some things differently, that's all ;)

Bettypooh

I think it should stay here as it isnt really a religion thread, but rather an ABDL thread that has an obvious religious element. But it is ABDL first, even if it does relate to the removal of ABDL.

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From a rationalist perspective, I was intrigued with the idea that for some at least, ABDL desires could potentially be satiated by some kind of sustained exposure therapy.

For me it’s an attractive thought.  The worst that could happen is that you get a long ABDL holiday and at best, you might painlessly re-join the vanilla world.

The apparent reversal of incontinence seems a bit mysterious but if that “incontinence” is simply the product of patterned behaviour as opposed to some kind of underlying pathology (unknown here of course) then I guess anything else happening between your ears might influence it.

I remember reading an article once about a bedwetting couple who were able to regain nocturnal continence after a startling therapy that involved them deliberately wetting the bed before retiring for some weeks.  The nub of it was that by bringing an unconscious behaviour into the conscious realm, they were able to take charge of it: Milton Erickson if you want to google it.  A key difference here was that they WANTED to resolve their situation (although if you read between the lines on the account of the matter, this is far from 100% certain).

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12 hours ago, oznl said:

 if that “incontinence” is simply the product of patterned behaviour as opposed to some kind of underlying pathology (unknown here of course) then I guess anything else happening between your ears might influence it.

This exactly :Crylol: It's very hard to understand one's subconscious mind- I'll even stretch that thought to claiming it is impossible to understand the subconscious fully. But we can learn to understand a lot of it. Everything we've ever sensed in any way is inside that subconscious mind, and it will naturally have an effect of some kind on us even if we don't see that happening. It's what makes is who we are beyond any inherent traits we may have B) Pavlov showed us how physical behavior can be altered through subconscious means, and with the control of our autonomous body functions being there it explains why those who desire to become incontinent strongly enough can actually do that :) You can do anything which is physically possible for you :girl_happy:

Yet there's another side to this in that our subconscious directs our course, even if we do not realize when it is doing that. It was only when my Therapist and myself began digging deeply into my own subconscious that I began to see why a lot of my traits and inclinations exist, how they have altered my own course through life, and what I could do to overcome the bad ones. It was only at that point I began to understand myself, and more importantly to me I began to understand others too- something which I'd previously been unable to do :( We're really not inclined to do that, for deep inside of us is every bad thing we've experienced too and it is natural to want to avoid things we perceive as being bad. Most people cope by running away from the bad things or hiding them from others in an attempt to not have to deal with them ourselves. That is a 'work-around', not a true 'fix' and oftentimes we keep running into those unfixed problems over and over until a crisis point is reached. It's when that happens that you choose to live in denial of your problems or choose to try to fix them which is best done with the help of a Therapist or Shrink who knows how our minds work better than most do :D Far too many people find ways to live in denial as their chosen course because it's an easier more pleasant approach that usually works in keeping you away from the crisis point. But it also keeps you stuck there so you never reach your full potential and you never find all the happiness you were meant to have :crybaby:

In this 'cured ABDL' I notice in their own words that they have always seen it as a negative influence on themselves. Even in the full exploration and living of it, that perception always existed in their subconscious, and in that it always influenced them even if they neither saw or understood that. Once their known-to-them desires had reached the point where there was no further to go on that path, the subconscious negativity they had never addressed came to the forefront of their subconscious and caused the changes to happen. Anything you perceive as being bad for you will cause you to avoid dealing with it for as long as you can because it's not an easy or pleasant thing to do. If you run out of other options you have no choice but to deal with it then. And all that 'dealing' can and sometimes does happen without you're being aware of it when it's happening only on the subconscious level :whistling: That process doesn't change everything instantly but through a series of steps for we can only handle so much at once and remain sane. Again this is what I notice here- a process of steps albeit rather quick ones- which coincides with what I know of the human mind and how it works.

In the end what matters most is that they find a continuing happiness and I truly hope that they have :thumbsup: You can attribute this to whatever you wish, just know that your own veracity is at stake if you make claims which turn out to be wrong, and that will drive you to to a deeper disconnection with reality or draw you closer to it, which will have a direct effect on your own happiness. Either way the choice is yours and with anything being possible, I choose to wait and hopefully see what is happening through the future years with them as only that will truly show what has gone on here. 

Bettypooh

 

 

 

 

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If it’s what he wants, I hope this sticks for him.

Personally, I doubt people can ever get over this. They may stop. I doubt the desire ever entirely goes away.

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Some interesting comments above. I know my first thoughts were to consider that perhaps someone had stumbled onto a way of fully meeting the unresolved need that formed ABDL back in their original infancy. I would usually consider that to be impossible and when we treat people for unresolved traumas from their childhood, we deal with the results rather than seek to 'cure' the original trauma. For me however, the most striking issue is that of 100% curing of bedwetting and incontinence. After 10 years in fulltime diapers, bladder weakness would be considerable and bladder capacity would have shrunk notably as well. I can come up with a practical reason for the ending of ABDL at a pinch - although only barely - but recovering of 100% bladder continence is not explainable at all without reference to a miracle. And it isnt even a return to what it was like before. it was a complete ending of bedwetting as well - a lifetime issue. It was a complete work of healing.

The writer believes it to be a miraculous intervention by God and it is hard to disagree given the circumstances. When God does a miracle, He does it perfectly and leaves no bits unfixed. The writer's comment was that 'it was if ABDL had never been' and that was the clue for me to declare a miracle.

God does all things well and when he RESTORES someone, he fixes up the past, not just the present.

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I'm a scientist in my beliefs, so I chok this up to something we can't explain currently, not a miracle.  Could be something physical or mental, we currently do not know.

Of course if I did believe in god, then I would believe this is a miracle and that is why its a beliefs, you don't have rational reason to believe it, it just is. So it doesn't matter if I believe something else, I'm not going to change the mind of someone else beliefs. There are certainly edge causes that for whatever reason something change their belief system, but I think those cases are few and far between.

Although I don't subscribe to not believing in god, I don't subscribe to not believing in him/her/it either. I'm open to anything that tells me why we are actually here and if there is something on the other side, but as of yet I have not seen any proof that shows me one way or the other. So hopefully I've made the right choices that won't cost me if there is something else beyond my consciousness in this body on this earth, but while I'm here I'm going to enjoy myself and the people around me as that is what makes me feel good. Can't make everyone happy all time and you are going to have arguments, but hopefully overall I'm making their life better because I'm part of their life.

I know its long winded, but I am making a point here and that is I do hope if it makes them happy to be "cured", that it sticks and they don't fall back into it.  Also that it doesn't matter if I believe or you believe it, but that they believe it and hopefully that gives them peace when they pass on from this life.

I'm generally happy with who I am as a person and of course it would be great if I could get rid of this fetish, but I'm not sure what it would cost me and others if I did some how get rid of it. To do so I would have to fundamentally change myself as a person and question is would then I like the person that I am without all my current flaws? That I can't tell you and probably will never be able to find out. To bad its not the movies where I can go back in time make a change, see what that changes costs us and then usually go back and change it back as you generally find you don't like the big picture outcome when you make that change. Of course sometimes in the movies they can't make it go back to the way it used to be, which then they usually have to learn to live with the change they decided to make and the outcome it produced.

If you have played Life is Strange, you get to see this in game, that a change such as making it so a loved one doesn't die, can make an outcome that you dislike even more.

I've probably gone on 10 different tangents, so if you read all the way though this good on you because I skimmed most the posts.

TL;DR Tangents aside, as a philosopher, I hope that I have encouraged some fundamental insights into this topic with what I wrote. The gist being that whatever makes you happy and the people around you happy in this life, then that is a good thing and that I hope this makes them happy.

TL;DR 2.0 Was my first TLDR to long?  ;-P

 

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On 4/18/2018 at 5:58 PM, dl_ashlee said:

I'm a scientist in my beliefs, so I chok this up to something we can't explain currently, not a miracle.  Could be something physical or mental, we currently do not know.

Of course if I did believe in god, then I would believe this is a miracle and that is why its a beliefs, you don't have rational reason to believe it, it just is. So it doesn't matter if I believe something else, I'm not going to change the mind of someone else beliefs. There are certainly edge causes that for whatever reason something change their belief system, but I think those cases are few and far between.

Although I don't subscribe to not believing in god, I don't subscribe to not believing in him/her/it either. I'm open to anything that tells me why we are actually here and if there is something on the other side, but as of yet I have not seen any proof that shows me one way or the other. So hopefully I've made the right choices that won't cost me if there is something else beyond my consciousness in this body on this earth, but while I'm here I'm going to enjoy myself and the people around me as that is what makes me feel good. Can't make everyone happy all time and you are going to have arguments, but hopefully overall I'm making their life better because I'm part of their life.

I know its long winded, but I am making a point here and that is I do hope if it makes them happy to be "cured", that it sticks and they don't fall back into it.  Also that it doesn't matter if I believe or you believe it, but that they believe it and hopefully that gives them peace when they pass on from this life.

I'm generally happy with who I am as a person and of course it would be great if I could get rid of this fetish, but I'm not sure what it would cost me and others if I did some how get rid of it. To do so I would have to fundamentally change myself as a person and question is would then I like the person that I am without all my current flaws? That I can't tell you and probably will never be able to find out. To bad its not the movies where I can go back in time make a change, see what that changes costs us and then usually go back and change it back as you generally find you don't like the big picture outcome when you make that change. Of course sometimes in the movies they can't make it go back to the way it used to be, which then they usually have to learn to live with the change they decided to make and the outcome it produced.

If you have played Life is Strange, you get to see this in game, that a change such as making it so a loved one doesn't die, can make an outcome that you dislike even more.

I've probably gone on 10 different tangents, so if you read all the way though this good on you because I skimmed most the posts.

TL;DR Tangents aside, as a philosopher, I hope that I have encouraged some fundamental insights into this topic with what I wrote. The gist being that whatever makes you happy and the people around you happy in this life, then that is a good thing and that I hope this makes them happy.

TL;DR 2.0 Was my first TLDR to long?  ;-P

 

The problem with your argument and that of most others is that it is largely desperately seeking to find an alternative explanation when the more obvious one is being ignored. To recap on the facts, this former ABDL was an extremely regressive person who never conquered bedwetting and had been incontinent for 10 years (I think). The natural outcome would be a very weakened sphincter and greatly reduced bladder capacity. But that is NOT what happened. From the moment the ABDL need was removed (by God), the incontinence was 100% gone, including bedwetting which had always been there. This is extremely unlikely to be natural as spontaneous healing like this is virtually unheard of. After 10 years in diapers 24/7 and incontinence, you would expect a difficult and lengthy recovery that involved many accidents and difficulties while toilet training took place. But there was none of that. From day one of the post-ABDL period, there was stellar continence with zero accidents and zero difficulty. In fact, his own words are 'it is like none of this ever happened'.

I know I am not going to convince anyone because I've been down this route many, many times before. The problem is not unlike trying to convince a flat-earther that the world is a sphere. Every proof, every bit of evidence is either rejected as fake or reinterpreted according to their preferred model, no matter how ridiculous it is. I had a 3 day old girl miraculously cured of spina bifida - something that does not happen, period. I've listened to the absurd rejections and the insulting garbage thrown at us over this event and been amazed at what lengths people will go to to avoid facing up to the existence of God. 

This example of total healing from ABDL and incontinence is unprecedented to my knowledge. Those who are deeply regressive know just how difficult it is to even manage ABDL, nevermind be rid of it. And so, when a provable example arises, we should be open enough to wonder why. Behavioural therapy does not work. Sating the desire is impossible. Anyone who has worked with childhood trauma knows that you cannot heal or remove that trauma, but that you teach coping and management strategies to reduce its power. So when faced with an example of something that is essentially impossible, what should we do?

Perhaps consider the existence of 'the impossible' and go from there.

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as usual. Glennie brings the clowning to a serious situation.. does he have any diapers left, cuzz I can always us more diapers.. underwear are for quiters..lol j/k  back you your regularly serious conversation...

:baby-waving-bye-bye-smiley-emoticon:

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Subconscious behaviour or divine miracle: in the absence of empirical proof, both are arguments, not explanations.

We don’t know.

I think however that in stark contrast to subconscious patterning, a “miracle” can only ever be an argument and NEVER rise to an explanation.  In fact I consider the very concept of a miracle to be the antithesis of explanation. 

I had never anticipated applying Kantian philosophy to a DD post – thank you for the opportunity :-)

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/22/2018 at 10:47 AM, oznl said:

Subconscious behaviour or divine miracle: in the absence of empirical proof, both are arguments, not explanations.

We don’t know.

I think however that in stark contrast to subconscious patterning, a “miracle” can only ever be an argument and NEVER rise to an explanation.  In fact I consider the very concept of a miracle to be the antithesis of explanation. 

I had never anticipated applying Kantian philosophy to a DD post – thank you for the opportunity :-)

To be fair, you are falling into the constant trap of making a miracle IMPOSSIBLE to prove because it is the occurrence of an IMPOSSIBLE event. Sometimes, needing proof means you miss out on what is happening around you.

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Wow...just read this thread. Kinda sorta gave me hope...but not really. Sure, maybe he's cured. Great. Only took him half a lifetime to finally accomplish. For the most part, I've accepted the fact that I'm just stuck like this for life....once in a while I have hope though. Who knows? Maybe I'll develop the super power to shapeshift and turn myself into an actual baby so that I can have a second chance at NORMALCY. I've never done a lot of things normal kids are supposed to do; missed out on high school altogether, home schooled for years. Tried to anyway, didn't work too well. 

But yeah....I guess scientifically speaking, anything's possible. I don't believe in magick or miracles though; I believe miracles are simply events which we may not currently be able to understand. According to some peoples definition, a miracle could also be said to just be a coincidence/fluke accident. I don't really like that way of saying it though, because it makes it sound like it happened for no particular reason at all, which just simply doesn't happen in nature, or anywhere else lol. There's always some kind of cause for an effect to occur. Things don't "just happen". Something always makes something else happens. 

I blame gravity. =P

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Sorry no offence intended to any one but this sounds like a lot of c... but then again i don t believe in god or in any other types of religious mumbo .I am a atheist and miracles in my book don t happen for everything there is an explanation so in this case I don t believe his story,Or this guy was going through a real rough time in his life and now that things have gotten better he claims that god cured him because that s the way the guy was brought up.

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7 hours ago, oliver d said:

Sorry no offence intended to any one but this sounds like a lot of c... but then again i don t believe in god or in any other types of religious mumbo .I am a atheist and miracles in my book don t happen for everything there is an explanation so in this case I don t believe his story,Or this guy was going through a real rough time in his life and now that things have gotten better he claims that god cured him because that s the way the guy was brought up.

So it sounds like you are making your claim based on your personal biases. You dont believe in God therefore there cant be miracles. And then when you ask people for proof that God exists you claim that there is no evidence because you reject it all. 

I have a daughter whose severe spina bifida, complete with literal hole in the spine, was completely cured overnight. If you ever want to look for proof of the existence of God, you might want to start with a clean sheet of paper and leave your biases out of it.

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16 hours ago, rosalie.bent said:

So it sounds like you are making your claim based on your personal biases. You dont believe in God therefore there cant be miracles. And then when you ask people for proof that God exists you claim that there is no evidence because you reject it all. 

I have a daughter whose severe spina bifida, complete with literal hole in the spine, was completely cured overnight. If you ever want to look for proof of the existence of God, you might want to start with a clean sheet of paper and leave your biases out of it.

This is irrational and an Occam's Razor violation. You have no evidence, only an observation. Therefore, you cannot say that Oliver d is rejecting evidence when all you got is an observation. I can believe the author's account to the fullest extent that I can, but obviously there is no evidence that a god did anything.

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On 5/1/2018 at 4:03 PM, rosalie.bent said:

To be fair, you are falling into the constant trap of making a miracle IMPOSSIBLE to prove because it is the occurrence of an IMPOSSIBLE event. Sometimes, needing proof means you miss out on what is happening around you.

Actually I do agree with you on that point.  Using MY reasoning process it is impossible to PROVE a miracle so I will never conclude one.  If I’ve understood your thinking correctly, in your view it should not be NECESSARY to prove a miracle as it will be self-evident.

Having said that, I can’t prove the subconscious theory either: no evidence.

We’re just going to need either divine intervention or kidnapping and psychoanalysis to work this one out to arrive at a converged conclusion :-)

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I think the most nauseating thing with this thread is the use of religion as a cop-out. Miracle cures are great and science doesn't have all the answers because it is science; however, if you investigate and really leave your preconceived notions at the door, with time you can find an answer.

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