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What it will take for ABDL to become mainstream


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I have been doing a lot of thinking lately about this particular kink and why choosing diapers as normal form of underwear isn't more widely excepted as a whole and I have come to the conclusion that given enough time that it will be and all stigmas associated with being ABDL will eventually go away.

 The only thing we need to get there is to have a celebrity presence who is openly ABDL. Think about the impact that Will & Grace had on the gay community. Or Caitlyn Jenner for the transgender community. It would take only one person to humanize our particular kink and make it socially acceptable. 

I have a middle school aged student in a very liberal city and as I walk through his school I see multiple signs posted on the walls saying "We accept all gender identities. All races. All nationalities." Et cetra. Before sending my student to outdoor school this year I got a packet on gender identity saying in essence that while the dorms are separated by sex, my child can choose which ever bunk and bathroom they identified with the most and that the same applied to the high school aged camp counselors. 

All of that is fine and well I support everyone's right to be who they want to be and overall this is a good thing but I cannot help but notice the stark contrast with my childhood experience. When I was in school D.A.R.E. posters lined all most all of the walls and sexual identity wasn't talked about at all. 

I did some more digging and I found a study that said about 1 million Americans are non gender conforming or about 1 out of every 250 people according to this study. That works out to about .04% of the US population. I know of course that these statistics are hard to quantify seeing as there are many people who are afraid to come out but this study did take that into consideration. 

Such a study on diaper paraphernalia to my knowledge does not exist but i'm sure that the findings would probably be lower but similar in the sense that we are talking about a small fraction of the overall population. Maybe 1 out of 300 to 400 would be my best guess but of course all i can do is guess. I was able to find a study on the prevalence of foot or feet related fetishes and it that said that it was estimated that 1.14% of the population has some sort of likening to feet. That number is more than double the amount of people who identify as non gender conforming. I would argue that most people are born with these desires whatever they maybe and have little choice in the matter. So why aren't there pictures of feet in my child's school? 

I feel that the answer to my question is one of lack of exposure. When I was a kid what Caitlyn Jenner did would have been unthinkable. So all it would take is one prominent figure who said "yep, I'm a foot person." Or "I'm a diaper lover." Someone who was relatable and open about their lifestyle that would instantly create awareness and liberal Hollywood and TV would be quick to embrace diversity and condemn any type of bigotry. People hate and fear what they do not understand and having someone humanize our lifestyle would instantly make it socially acceptable. Besides, I cannot think of a more harmless desire than choosing a different type of underwear. 

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Because being ABDL and being transgender are completely different things. Basically everything you talked about above is irrelevant due to the differences.

ABDL is already pretty mainstream... Documentaries have been made, episodes of programmes based on it, there is no shortage of ABDL content and products, there are conventions, meet-ups, dating sites, communities... What more do you want?

 

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I think I understand what he wants, because I want it, in theory, to: the ability to openly wear and have no fear of ridicule or censure.

And enjoying the physical sensation of a diaper is nothing like gender identity or orientation.

Yes this is the point I am trying to make.

I was more so refuring to widespread social acceptance. If you ask your average person at a bar if they are ABDL odds are that they will have no idea what you are even asking them. Obviously we are hyper aware of it but your average person if they know anything about abdl think it has something to do with children which it obviously to us does not. I understand the differences between gender identity and ABDL and I am not saying that they are the same I am simply talking about social awareness and acceptance but I am glad to have sparked a debate. 

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There's no link between gender identity and sexuality so no real comparison to be made there.

As for acceptance, does any fetish have mainstream acceptance? I can't think of a single example of any fetish being portrayed as a normal or healthy thing, like a tv couple who are into bondage where it's not played for laughs. Before anyone says 50 shades, that neither normal or healthy in it's portrayal, frankly it's closer to abuse.

I see these threads all the time, and I honestly don't get what people want. Do you want to wear diapers all the time? Fine then do it, no one will care. There's no real discriminations against abdl people, yeah it's weird and treated as a bit  freak show in the media. Which I'd like to less of. But what more is there?

 

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I see these threads all the time, and I honestly don't get what people want. Do you want to wear diapers all the time? Fine then do it, no one will care. There's no real discriminations against abdl people, yeah it's weird and treated as a bit  freak show in the media. Which I'd like to less of. But what more is there?

 

Being gay was treated as weird and a bit of a freak show. Unitl it wasn't. Being trans was treated as weird and a bit of a freak show. Until it wasn't. Positive media exposure has been proven to change hearts and minds. Show me a positive mainstream example of ABDL? I have not seen it yet and this is what I want.

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Being gay was treated as weird and a bit of a freak show. Unitl it wasn't. Being trans was treated as weird and a bit of a freak show. Until it wasn't. Positive media exposure has been proven to change hearts and minds. Show me a positive mainstream example of ABDL? I have not seen it yet and this is what I want.

Being gay and trans were and are heavily discriminated against, both legally and socially. ABDL not so much.

America is barely scraping actual sex ed in to the schools, it's such an sex negative culture, even in the vaguely liberal hollywood. American mainstream culture effectively being the global etc etc. So what can you do in against kind of culture, well you make your own. I can think of a few examples in comics of ABDL and age play being there, love and rockets, and finder for those interested. So try to put together a quirky indie movie about an ABDL romance, netflix would probably put it out.

While LGBT people have always been in mainstream media, though with hilarious amounts of coding in the hollywood "golden years" and then later a far more demonised appearance in later movies, typically being sexual predators, sex workers or serial killers (I've literally written essays on this). But there was always a strong independent scene for movies, theatre and comics and it was once those independent works gained critical acclaim and wider recognition that the wider acceptance came. Tom of Finland a legend in the gay art scene was put on stamps in 2014!

So the way you get positive mainstream media presentation? Is as a community taking control of our image, which is certainly a bit cringey and freakish at the moment and producing our own presentation that is well done and broad enough that it's easier for the mainstream to use that rather than manufacturing their own. This is something the LGBT community has been doing since the 60s and it's only now seeing fruit.

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I would also like to know what people would think if they took their kids to the part and found adults in diapers playing there? You are casually browsing something at a shop and the guy next to you just fills his pants? Eating in a restaurant with an adult in a highchair on the table next to you, etc... How about if you were walking through the park and saw a man with two naked ladies on leashes and in dog's masks? How about the person next to you in the cinema casually having their feet licked and kissed?

There is nothing stopping you going out in diapers whenever you want. It isn't hard to do so discreetly and there are even often places to change.

Would I like people to stop thinking ABDLs are predators in some way, of course I would, does it affect me in my day to day life? Nope.

I would be singing a very different tune had the UK law passed that would have blocked ABDL sites but common sense prevailed one way or another in that case. As long as I can practice what I do and not be restricted I don't need anything more.

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I would also like to know what people would think if they took their kids to the part and found adults in diapers playing there? You are casually browsing something at a shop and the guy next to you just fills his pants? Eating in a restaurant with an adult in a highchair on the table next to you, etc... How about if you were walking through the park and saw a man with two naked ladies on leashes and in dog's masks? How about the person next to you in the cinema casually having their feet licked and kissed?

There is nothing stopping you going out in diapers whenever you want. It isn't hard to do so discreetly and there are even often places to change.

Would I like people to stop thinking ABDLs are predators in some way, of course I would, does it affect me in my day to day life? Nope.

I would be singing a very different tune had the UK law passed that would have blocked ABDL sites but common sense prevailed one way or another in that case. As long as I can practice what I do and not be restricted I don't need anything more.

To the first part of your post I would say that you can find extremes in every fetish community but that would not accurately reflect how everyone in that community behaves. I would in fact say that most people would have the common decency not to involve others in their preferences. Overtly inappropriate or provocative behavior should never be deemed okay but as long as your behavior isnt disruptive to everyone else there should be no taboos and to a larger extent ABDL is still very taboo. I think what you said is true that people do see ABDL as predatory in nature and I would like to see that public perception change.

I understand that to a large portion of this community this line of thinking doesn't make sense to you. You wear diapers and you don't give a damn what other people think about it. I am not there yet. I do care what people think. Deeply. I am tired of being viewed as some kind of deviant for having this desire that I have tried over and over again to walk away from but somehow I cannot. I quit smoking. I quit drinking. I quit being an asshole. I cannot however quit diapers. Wearing diapers is a part of who I am and I have come to realize this but i still crave the acceptance from friends and family that can only come from society's view on ABDL evolving from deviant and predatory to a more informed and accepting position. I am a glass is always half full kind of guy and I feel that at some point society as a whole will get there.

 

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I understand that to a large portion of this community this line of thinking doesn't make sense to you. You wear diapers and you don't give a damn what other people think about it. I am not there yet. I do care what people think. Deeply.

I understand where you are and we've all been there at one point or another and most people who make similar threads are in a similar place.

However, acceptance doesn't come from elsewhere. Acceptance has to come from yourself and even if it became more accepted you would still need to come to grips with it yourself. I'm not saying that it's an easy thing to do but it will come with time.

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Just been reading through what people have been saying and for a start things are massively different these days from those of my youth.  Things are a lot more open now and more accepting to a certain degree, I have done quite a lot out in public dressed as a little girl and yes diapered although not on full view to everyone.  On the whole people that I have met out are generally ok with who I am and every now and then you even talk to someone that really gets where I am coming from.

Of course you will also run into people that will ridicule anything that is perceived to slightly different and you just have to ignore that side of things, but it is the nature of things to remember the bad things and not the good.  If, like I did, you go out in the public eye you have to accept what people are going to say to you, good or bad.  I would rather just try to get into little space and be myself but if I am honest you cannot be that relaxed and off guard when out in public.  I found myself thinking "what if" all the time and always had an escape route planned.

I think what slowed down my public exposure was the increase of social media. Instead of people asking questions and wanting to know me it became more of take a picture with the freak and post it straight away.  I know my partner developed a fear of exposure and ridicule although I am not so worried I had to take on her concerns.  I have only ever had online exposure as a little girl and have kept my adult male side away from any online and social media exposure but I do become more fearful that the facial recognition stuff will one day link my boy side from other people's posts and my girl side together.

I do agree with Elfy that there has been several TV shows that try to portray our lifestyle but they mostly, but not all, try to sensationalise what we are. I have been contacted in the past to do such a program and have declined because I do not think we are portrayed in a good light, because showing us as normal people does not get viewers.

If you want to walk down the road in a diaper and pretty dress, you can do it, I have.  But you are at the mercy of the world if you do and have to accept the view they will take and have no say in that.  Would I like a world where I could be the true me and not get judged for it, of course but I am pretty sure we are not close to it yet.

hugs

Karla

 

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If you think people who wear diapers aren't discriminated against socially, you honestly need a reality check. The fact that the most well-known adult diaper brand markets itself by trying to not be a diaper really says it all. Also, how do people who wear diapers fare in, say, highschool or the dating scene if others find out? Exactly.

It's also incredibly dishonest to try associating not wanting to live in constant fear of being outed, unfairly accused and losing things dear to them with wanting to be an exhibitionist. Wanting to be able to casually bring up a kink to your loved one without a major risk of them instantly turning vile and hateful towards you is not the same as strolling down the street in fetish gear. You can accept yourself all you want, but that's not relevant to whether you get to keep your marriage or children.

However, I would say that beyond AB/DLs in particular being stigmatized, adult diaper wearers in general including incontinent people are treated in an exceedingly poor way. For the same reason, though, I think AB/DL will be treated better as a side-effect if the societal acceptance of incontinence progresses, which should definitely be achievable if it were to be pointed out on a major scale just how much pointless malice many incontinent people have had to suffer through for a medical issue they can't help, and that it's not okay to perpetuate that kind of hatred towards them much like how no reasonable person gives people a hard time over other physical disabilities.

On a side note, I would like to point out that there are several major payment processors that will give even 18+ sites trouble over ABDL content, leading to them either having to ban the fetish or run into issues financing themselves. Just a little thing to think about for those who say that ABDLs aren't facing any issues.

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If you want to walk down the road in a diaper and pretty dress, you can do it, I have.  But you are at the mercy of the world if you do and have to accept the view they will take and have no say in that.  Would I like a world where I could be the true me and not get judged for it, of course but I am pretty sure we are not close to it yet.

Very nice for a first post :thumbsup:

It's a world I dream of as well, and I know that while it probably won't ever happen I can help by being non-judgemental my own self and even supportive of that diversity where I can be B)

Bettypooh

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ABDL and transgender are two completely different things and can’t be compared. When you’re transgender you don’t have a choice as to whether you dress in the appropriate clothes, you have to be dressed in public and to transition you are proving that you’re completely serious, not just playing for sexual reasons as a cross dresser would. When you’re incontinent you don’t flaunt your diapers and if someone notices and ridiculed you society will generally condem them because you have a disability. Those who wear diapers will never be completely accepted if they are wearing for a fetish.

Hugs,

Freta

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I think you grossly overstate the value of Caitlyn Jenner and Will and Grace. In fact, I would say that their influence is pretty close to nil. They didnt LEAD the charge; they followed well and truly behind it. Also, someone said that there is no connection between sexuality and gender. I dont want to be too harsh, but that is patently ridiculous. Since sexuality and gender conform for 99.95% of people, that connection is very, very obvious and very, very strong.

As for ABDL becoming mainstream, why would anyone want that and what would be acheived anyhow? As someone posted, spanking is by far the most common fetish and yet I dont know a single couple who does it because... it is private. It isnt mainstream - it is simply private. ABDL could do with losing some of the ridiculous connotations like pedophilia and 'icky' etc, but that will come in time as more and more people know more and more ABDLs. Just like most of the early hysteria about gays has evaporated. Not because more people accept or approve of it, but rather because people know what homosexuality is and are less threatened. ABDL simply needs to be better known. A celebrity ABDL is possibly the worst thing that can happen. After all, look at all the public examples of ABDL that have come along so far? Most have been very negative and a few have been neutral.

What is far more likely to help reduce the negative connotations is the rapid rise of diaper wearing by choice such as to concerts, special events or for occasional protection. When adult diaper wearing is more normal, then ABDL will seem a lot less weird, but never 'normal'.

ABDL will never be normal, nor will it be mainstream and nor should it be. We gain nothing from it and in fact, lose a lot. 

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Actually in the Real World; The Bronx; not the Hampsteads, Southie and not Cambridge; the kind of people I grew up with, Jenner is a net minus. Having "switched" in late age, Jenner is considered a phony who is trying to be relevant againa and, to the best of my knowledge, not having had full surgery, the claim of being "a women" gets either laughed at or people just have a WTF moment, whereas Renee Richards and Christine Jorgensen were viewed as the real thing and even then there were some bumps in the road

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Actually in the Real World; The Bronx; not the Hampsteads, Southie and not Cambridge; the kind of people I grew up with, Jenner is a net minus. Having "switched" in late age, Jenner is considered a phony who is trying to be relevant againa and, to the best of my knowledge, not having had full surgery, the claim of being "a women" gets either laughed at or people just have a WTF moment, whereas Renee Richards and Christine Jorgensen were viewed as the real thing and even then there were some bumps in the road

Everybody has an opinion. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. I’ll give you an example Christine, in my opinion your post I quoted above is obnoxious. I feel this way because you take what is your opinion and treat it like it is fact enshrined in an encyclopedia. I’m talking about this here: “Having switched in late age, Jenner is considered a phony who is trying to be relevant again”. This is just an opinion and I would defend your right to it on any day but you seem to have trouble recognizing the difference between your opinion and facts. I felt compelled to try to help.

You seem to have done it here too: “not having had full surgery, the claim of being “a woman” gets either laughed at or people just having a WTF moment”. This statement leaves me wondering what people? You could have said I think Jenner is a joke because..... and I wouldn’t be writing this post. I’ll give you another example of how this works. I think your post shows how bigoted you really are despite the fact that you are a self identified sissy and little girl.

Now I’ll get to another issue I have with your post. You seem to be under what I personally consider a mistaken belief that if a transgender person doesn’t have surgery they are not a “real woman” or by inference a “real man”. I am transgender and not ashamed to identify as such. I have not had surgery and I’m not ashamed of this fact either. I do not feel like I’m “not a real woman” despite your opinion. You, do not get to decide who is a real anything, you simply get your opinion. 

I’m not a fan of Caitlyn Jenner as far as the transgender community is concerned. That is a fact because it’s a statement of how I personally feel. Regardless of that I will defend her right to be the woman she says she is.

I also take issue with you saying “having switched in late age”. What difference does her age of transition make? I started mine at almost 40, do I get disqualified because I’m above the age limit? The reason young people are able to transition is because we of the previous generations blazed a trail for them.

Hugs,

Freta

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Actually in the Real World; The Bronx; not the Hampsteads, Southie and not Cambridge; the kind of people I grew up with, Jenner is a net minus. Having "switched" in late age, Jenner is considered a phony who is trying to be relevant againa and, to the best of my knowledge, not having had full surgery, the claim of being "a women" gets either laughed at or people just have a WTF moment, whereas Renee Richards and Christine Jorgensen were viewed as the real thing and even then there were some bumps in the road

You forgot Jan Morris.

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I don't want to be mainstream anyway.  I'd rather be special.  If I was gay I'd happily be out.  I don't want to be an out AB though - I'd rather that was shared only with my nearest and dearest, and other ABs & AB carers of course.  The world's a scary place, no place for unprotected babies in my view, however big they are.

I don't like mainstream music much, or watching mainstream sport, or most of mainstream television.  Partly just because they're mainstream.  I'd rather have homemade, improvised, garage, wacko stuff.  Being an AB fits into that very well.  Would I start wishing I wasn't an AB if the UK Prime Minister or the US President was an out AB?  I just might, and that would be awful.

...or is that just me?   :lol:

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I don't want to be mainstream anyway.  I'd rather be special.  If I was gay I'd happily be out.  I don't want to be an out AB though - I'd rather that was shared only with my nearest and dearest, and other ABs & AB carers of course.  The world's a scary place, no place for unprotected babies in my view, however big they are.

I don't like mainstream music much, or watching mainstream sport, or most of mainstream television.  Partly just because they're mainstream.  I'd rather have homemade, improvised, garage, wacko stuff.  Being an AB fits into that very well.  Would I start wishing I wasn't an AB if the UK Prime Minister or the US President was an out AB?  I just might, and that would be awful.

...or is that just me?   :lol:

Nope, I'm right there with you. It's like not watching "The Big Bang Theory" anymore because my parents started watching it. That was my show, darn it! A bit mature for a baby like me, but still. :P

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I don't want to be mainstream anyway.  I'd rather be special.  If I was gay I'd happily be out.  I don't want to be an out AB though - I'd rather that was shared only with my nearest and dearest, and other ABs & AB carers of course.  The world's a scary place, no place for unprotected babies in my view, however big they are.

I don't like mainstream music much, or watching mainstream sport, or most of mainstream television.  Partly just because they're mainstream.  I'd rather have homemade, improvised, garage, wacko stuff.  Being an AB fits into that very well.  Would I start wishing I wasn't an AB if the UK Prime Minister or the US President was an out AB?  I just might, and that would be awful.

...or is that just me?   :lol:

Trump isnt AB. Even worse, he is just B. His actions, his behaviours and his thoughts are very infantile and childish. Being AB certainly has its problems but at the end of the day there is still an A around. Far worse are the supposed adults who are in most ways, just children and even worse still, when they get elected to high office.

 

Everybody has an opinion. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. I’ll give you an example Christine, in my opinion your post I quoted above is obnoxious. I feel this way because you take what is your opinion and treat it like it is fact enshrined in an encyclopedia. I’m talking about this here: “Having switched in late age, Jenner is considered a phony who is trying to be relevant again”. This is just an opinion and I would defend your right to it on any day but you seem to have trouble recognizing the difference between your opinion and facts. I felt compelled to try to help.

You seem to have done it here too: “not having had full surgery, the claim of being “a woman” gets either laughed at or people just having a WTF moment”. This statement leaves me wondering what people? You could have said I think Jenner is a joke because..... and I wouldn’t be writing this post. I’ll give you another example of how this works. I think your post shows how bigoted you really are despite the fact that you are a self identified sissy and little girl.

Now I’ll get to another issue I have with your post. You seem to be under what I personally consider a mistaken belief that if a transgender person doesn’t have surgery they are not a “real woman” or by inference a “real man”. I am transgender and not ashamed to identify as such. I have not had surgery and I’m not ashamed of this fact either. I do not feel like I’m “not a real woman” despite your opinion. You, do not get to decide who is a real anything, you simply get your opinion. 

I’m not a fan of Caitlyn Jenner as far as the transgender community is concerned. That is a fact because it’s a statement of how I personally feel. Regardless of that I will defend her right to be the woman she says she is.

I also take issue with you saying “having switched in late age”. What difference does her age of transition make? I started mine at almost 40, do I get disqualified because I’m above the age limit? The reason young people are able to transition is because we of the previous generations blazed a trail for them.

Hugs,

Freta

Unfortunately, it is a common problem as people get older, to conflate their opinion with facts. Jenner is not being treated this way by 'everybody'. Rather, she is opposed by the usual suspects  - including the TG community - for whom 'their way' is the right way and everything else is wrong. I get a bit sick of people claiming to know what 'everyone' is thinking with zero evidence.

as for 'switching at late age', that would be the most pointless and specious argument of all, as if WHEN we address our identity issues has any connection to validity or truth.

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In the case of Caitlyn Jenner, much as it was with me, there might have been internal resistance to the change; one does not willingly leave a relatively happy and manageable situation until the pressure becomes so great that the change must now occur. I did not want to be TG. Most of us who are would not wish this on anyone. But when it happens to you there's nothing you can do to end the internal struggles except to become your real self and many of us only discover that later in life. I think that I would have done better had I started earlier but that's not how it worked out with me and I can't go back and change that. Older Transitions are not at all unusual, especially for those who do have the ability to wait and whose career can make a late transition the best choice. I know several TS's who waited till they retired to transition so that they wouldn't have to worry about finances afterward. I also know several TS's whose careers were destroyed by their Transition and those poor souls know the feeling of hunger and cold intimately. It is very wise to have your finances in place before you Transition, however that isn't always possible. You're not in control of who you are, only what you do about it, and sometimes you're not in control of that either.

Bettypooh

 

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