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I'm beginning to have major issues with automation.


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So there seems to be this huge push in the world for companies to go fully or at least partially automated.  The latest thing these days seems to be headed towards driverless vehicles.  Trucking and driving jobs make up a massive portion of employment in North America and the world I suspect.  What are these truckers supposed to do once a robot or algorithm replaces them?

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Hopefully they come out with some kind guaranteed income because a lot of jobs are going away. If they don't there won't be a reason not to go and murder rich people and take their stuff like they did in France. And once they run out of rich guys anyone else with stuff.

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I'm not sure the guaranteed income is the way to go either.  I like to think that people need some type of motivation in their lives to try and better their situation.  I'm not saying that everyone who is out of work is a bum or a loser because...lets face facts....life happens...but a life needs challenges.

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Learn to service these new vehicles. They are complex and will require a while new kind of mechanic - one who understands large battery systems, electric motors, radar sensors, vision systems...  its a complex device so these people will be in demand. This is the challenge. 

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Not everyone can be a mechanic.  Not everyone can be a scientist.  Not everyone can be a computer programmer......

IMO...it behooves these large corporations to begin employment programs.  They need to start creating jobs rather than eliminating them through automation.  I realize its not everyones cup of tea but some folks are quite satisfied with what society deems 'menial' jobs.....

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12 hours ago, drynot said:

I'm not sure the guaranteed income is the way to go either.  I like to think that people need some type of motivation in their lives to try and better their situation.  I'm not saying that everyone who is out of work is a bum or a loser because...lets face facts....life happens...but a life needs challenges.

Look at it this way... in our post-industrial economy consumer demand is the largest driving force. We don't produce much here, we don't export much... most of our economy is jobs selling and servicing goods made elsewhere. If people don't buy things the wheels of economic progress grind to a halt. We saw this to good effect in the Great Recession, where the US government had to print NINE TRILLION DOLLARS out of thin air and loan it at essentially 0% interest so people would have money to buy things.

Robots don't have homes, don't have families, don't buy cars, don't eat out, don't take vacations. Yes there will be new jobs selling and servicing robots, but one person can sell and service hundreds of them. That means millions of people will have nothing to do. The attitude of many is "train these people for new jobs"... well we have to create new jobs in order to train these folks and, lets be honest, truck drivers and cashiers aren't the brightest people in the world. 

Bottom line, people must have income for the economy to continue to function. That's why forward-thinking minds like Musk and Zuckerburg are advocating for Universal Basic Income.

2 minutes ago, drynot said:

Not everyone can be a mechanic.  Not everyone can be a scientist.  Not everyone can be a computer programmer......

IMO...it behooves these large corporations to begin employment programs.  They need to start creating jobs rather than eliminating them through automation.  I realize its not everyones cup of tea but some folks are quite satisfied with what society deems 'menial' jobs.....

We need to get back into manned space exploration. There are limitless resources available in the cosmos... NASA recently discovered an iron asteroid near Saturn worth an estimated QUADRILLION dollars. We need a program to tow the thing into orbit and start mining it. We need to go back to the moon and establish permanent settlement, from there we can look to Mars and the further planets.

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Ah...but those 'forward thinking minds' don't realize that if you just hand people money for what amounts to essentially nothing then there is no....whats the word......PASSION for life....if you catch my drift.  I think that people will actually devolve into a simpler state and not use the opportunity to better themselves or society.

Lets face it....a universal basic income is very close to Communism.....which isn't too popular in American culture.  People down there want LESS interference from government....not more.  Also....you'll lose a tremendous amount of freedom when the government supplies your income rather than gaining money through work.

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5 minutes ago, drynot said:

Ah...but those 'forward thinking minds' don't realize that if you just hand people money for what amounts to essentially nothing then there is no....whats the word......PASSION for life....if you catch my drift.  I think that people will actually devolve into a simpler state and not use the opportunity to better themselves or society.

Lets face it....a universal basic income is very close to Communism.....which isn't too popular in American culture.  People down there want LESS interference from government....not more.  Also....you'll lose a tremendous amount of freedom when the government supplies your income rather than gaining money through work.

People who want to better themselves or society are already doing so... people who want to do the bare minimum in order to survive do that as well.

We already have a version of Universal Basic Income here in the States, it just goes under different names. Welfare, Food Stamps, Obamacare, etc. Millions of people already live off the system.

You are correct in that the future will propose a new set of social challenges for the human race, however UBI will also let artists and inventors be more free to create without having to worry about paying their bills every month... and that is where the true innovation comes from.

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7 hours ago, Darkfinn said:

You are correct in that the future will propose a new set of social challenges for the human race, however UBI will also let artists and inventors be more free to create without having to worry about paying their bills every month... and that is where the true innovation comes from.

See...I see it differently.  When the Government controls your income...then it will be they who decide what you invent.....how you innovate.  I think people will lose the ability to travel freely and decide how to live their lives.  Without your own money then others will make those decisions for you....

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1 hour ago, fuzzybunny said:

Honestly then go medical. I know it's hard but if you could get into medical billing or a nurse or LPN.

I'm not worried about my job.  I'll be working in my current field until I retire.  Wicked demand these days.

I worry about societal costs that full on automation might bring.  People seem so willing to embrace automation and tout its benefits without thinking about how much harm it could bring to humanity and our freedom.

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On 12/26/2017 at 12:16 PM, drynot said:

Trucking and driving jobs make up a massive portion of employment in North America and the world I suspect.  What are these truckers supposed to do once a robot or algorithm replaces them?

Sit back, take a deep breath, and think about what your saying. 

First off. Every driverless vehicle still needs a human behind the wheel that is the law. That human is there for intervention and prevention, something no robot is capable of. 

Secondly:  In order for the trucking industry to go complete automation would be for a complete overhaul of the entire infrastructure...roads especially. That includes in towns and cities. That takes a tremendous amount of money, money the government is not willing  to put out.

 

True story.  I drive truck in the construction industry.  I deliver asphalt, concrete, and various types of aggregate to job sites. My job is an intriquite part of the construction project whether it's a new pad, driveway, parking lot, chip sealing, mill and overlay, or a new road. The geogrid is continuously changing for that job in particular. Let's say for example I'm hauling asphalt for a new road and that road requires 3 lifts. Bottom lift is the thickest usually 3 inches 2nd lift 2 inches, and the 3rd and final lift is 1 inch making up 6 inches total in asphalt. Assume the job is 1 mile long and you have 15 trucks hauling 24 tons each. Each truck is going to lay 3 inches of asphalt a certain amount of feet on the road then head back to the plant and reload then head back to the job site and repeat the process over until the job is complete. Now with each delivery the geocooridinace is different. That would require some one to be constantly updating the grid for every truck load of material for every job. Not as easy as it sounds. 

Then there's the turn around point where the vehicle needs to go back to the plant or pit for another load. With the exception of parking lots and driveways every truck needs a turn around spot. When paving roadways we use the nearest approach to turn around. We often pave past those approaches and have to move to the next one, this is something no robot could do plus it would be a nightmare for those who have to update the grid for every truck load of material. 

We have a meeting every year at the beginning of the season and every year for the past 3 years this subject has been brought up and every year I laugh. 

We will never live to see full automation in the trucking industry. The same goes for long haul.

On 12/27/2017 at 10:19 AM, Darkfinn said:

 lets be honest, truck drivers and cashiers aren't the brightest people in the world.

No offense, but I take exception to this statement. 

While there are some individuals who shouldn't be behind the wheel there are far more intelligent truck drivers then there are stupid ones. 

Someone posted that is a menial task to drive truck. No so. Couldn't be farther than the truth. If they mean by menial just sitting behind the wheel driving down the interstate  than yeah that's the menial part of the job. A drivers true skills come into play when they take that exit ramp and have to navigate narrow city streets over crowded with narrow minded people.  A drivers eyes are constantly moving scoping his surroundings for potential hazards such as ppl and objects not to mention still looking for the turn that will get them to their destination. Have you ever navigated an 80,000 lb 70 ft long rig through the streets of New York City during rush hour? LA, Boston, Washington DC, Chicago? Do it then tell me its a menial tasks. 

Does everyone also realized that if it weren't for trucks all the conveniences of your well pampered (no pun intended) life would be over. After all there are no railway tracks or landing strips behind your local stores or malls.

Import products come in by ship. There off loaded onto trucks taken to a storage facility usually close by and dropped off. Next comes another truck loads up the container and delivers it to a distribution center. There the container is unloaded and stored. When orders are received the items are picked loaded into a trailer then taken to it's final destination, sometimes there's more than 1 destination per trailer of goods, in other words more than one stop for that driver which is even more time constraining for the driver.

But hey that's what goes on behind the scenes of the everyday life of a truck driver. But it don't matter. As long as your able to walk to the shelf, place it in your cart, and pay the stupid cashier........But next time you leave the store walk out to the loading docks and see where the stupid driver parked his trailer.

Final note and this is so true: WITHOUT TRUCKS AMERICA STOPS! 

If every driver parked their truck for a week this country would be brought to its knees within days. Think about it. 

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DL4LIFE....you're preaching to the choir.  I have my CDL as well and there are trucking jobs out there that no robot will be doing any time soon.  My main beef is that people seem to be embracing automation as the cure for all of societies ills.  I think major corporations have a duty to CREATE jobs rather than eliminate them.

Its a small thing....but I steadfastly refuse to use automated check out kiosks at grocery stores and department stores.  While these might seem to be 'menial' jobs to some....to others its their whole world.  People NEED jobs.  Our society NEEDS menial jobs to help people get a step up and give some a chance at a better life.

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19 hours ago, DL4LIFE said:

First off. Every driverless vehicle still needs a human behind the wheel that is the law. That human is there for intervention and prevention, something no robot is capable of. 

Secondly:  In order for the trucking industry to go complete automation would be for a complete overhaul of the entire infrastructure...roads especially. That includes in towns and cities. That takes a tremendous amount of money, money the government is not willing  to put out.

... ... ...

We have a meeting every year at the beginning of the season and every year for the past 3 years this subject has been brought up and every year I laugh. 

We will never live to see full automation in the trucking industry. The same goes for long haul.

No offense, but I take exception to this statement. 

While there are some individuals who shouldn't be behind the wheel there are far more intelligent truck drivers then there are stupid ones. 

Someone posted that is a menial task to drive truck. No so. Couldn't be farther than the truth. If they mean by menial just sitting behind the wheel driving down the interstate  than yeah that's the menial part of the job. A drivers true skills come into play when they take that exit ramp and have to navigate narrow city streets over crowded with narrow minded people.  A drivers eyes are constantly moving scoping his surroundings for potential hazards such as ppl and objects not to mention still looking for the turn that will get them to their destination. Have you ever navigated an 80,000 lb 70 ft long rig through the streets of New York City during rush hour? LA, Boston, Washington DC, Chicago? Do it then tell me its a menial tasks. 

... ... ...

Let me begin by saying that my job is as a trucking dispatcher, I deal with LTL and long haul truckers all across the nation every day.  So don't think you're speaking to some layman here.

First off: Laws can be changed. Right now every driverless vehicle still needs a human in the driver's seat... but what about 10 or 20 years from now? Twenty years ago autonomous vehicles were mere prototypes trying to navigate simple closed courses, today they're operating in limited numbers on our public roads. The future is wide open in this respect.

Secondly: What makes you think we need an overhaul of infrastructure in order for automated vehicles to function? The ones already on the roads are functioning so far, and they'll only get better in the future.

Thirty years ago there were people who were laughing about the subject of hybrids and EVs. Today those vehicles make up a small, but growing percentage of vehicles on the road. Toyota has sold 1.75 million Prius models in the US since 2002. That's nothing to laugh at.

Making the statement that we will "never" live to see anything is foolish and shortsighted.

I didn't say truck drivers were stupid, I said they weren't the brightest bunch. As in not intelligent enough to handle more mentally complex jobs, like computer programming. I've spent the last three years training hundreds of drivers on the use of my company's computerized in-truck dispatch system and the new Federally mandated electronic logs. Some of the drivers I work with are great people, hard working, helpful, easy to get along with. BUT we have to remember they're truckers, not rocket scientists... when it comes to technology most of them are challenged.

I understand how challenging it is to safely drive a truck, I'm not saying the job is easy and I'm certainly not trying to belittle anyone who works in the field. The job is "menial " because it doesn't require a high degree of book learning or formal education in order to perform.

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On 12/27/2017 at 11:07 PM, drynot said:

I'm not worried about my job.  I'll be working in my current field until I retire.  Wicked demand these days.

Me too, and automation can never take over the field of construction and renovations. But it doesn't have to do that for your career to go to he!! in a handbasket :( When I started in industrial building there was a huge demand for workers, more construction sites than you could count, and buckets of money given out to those willing to get a little dirty at work B) With a few years experience you'd be making more money than someone with a lifetime's experience at a factory and there seemed no end to that in sight :girl_happy: Fast-forward to now where I'm too old to try something different, where cheap labor from immigrants has caused the wages to sink abysmally, and where even though there is once again a huge amount of building going on here, there is no money and no future in it :crybaby: My difference is that I'll be working till I drop dead because I can't afford to retire. And with my body wearing out rapidly it's even worse. My favorite saying of late is "Welcome to He!!- I know it because I'm living in it" :badmood:

In the future if it can be done by a machine then that's who is going to do it including the building of those machines, and the role of humans will be to serve those machines. There will always be a few things where humans will be an absolute necessity and those jobs will go to whoever will do it the cheapest, leaving most people destitute like in the 1930's depression except this time around there will be  nobody wanting to save you. Better get rich while you can for any other ending will be a bad one!

Bettypooh

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Hey Bettypooh, there is already a brick-laying robot for example, fyi. Due to the speed at which construction occurs, automation kind of needs to happen though.

All this complaining about automation though reminds me of the jobs we don't miss, because they were less desired and did not pay very well. Truck drivers will be phased out, but despite an ever increasing population size and increase in automation, national unemployment seems to maintain a low value which is more or less dependent on the economy and less on other factors. Of course, that is not to say certain regions of the country won't feel it more, especially in areas where there is already not much for employment.

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