Mass Shooting in Orlando

[ForbiddenFruit]

I've seen people telling queer folk to not 'politicize' this. No. When our families, our ability to parent, our difficulties as a group, our access to public spaces, our right to even have loved ones, our very

[Pamperbum_uk]

I'm not

[rusty pins]

It keeps happening over and over and over, yet many in congress say over and over and over

[Dubious]

It's a tragedy.. that none dares to change the gun laws...

There is Massacres like every month over there..

[Elfy]

I will just say that if the man was affiliated with ISIS like I have seen some say (and I haven't been looking into it too much so I may be wrong) then it was prayer that caused it.

---

More than that Dubious: http://www.vox.com/a/mass-shootings-calendar-june-2016

You can look at practically any metric for shootings and gun crime and more often than not USA is at the top. I have spoken to people here before and I know that America's fascination with guns is too strong for anything to be done about it, we just all sit here and when the headline "Mass shooting in USA" appears there isn't much surprise.

One way or another there is a big problem and no one is quite sure how to fix it. But right now we are just going to keep seeing the same thing happen over and over again.

[smokey]

How did he get his gun past the gun free zone sign? What law could have prevented this?

[Diapered Jason]

I think there are 2 takeaways from this tradegy.

The first is we are going to have to have a discussion about civilian vs. military weapons. What weapons should civilians be allowed to carry? The AR-15 is a weapon designed for war. It is a high powered assualt rifle designed to shred flesh on impact for maximum killing potential. I personally believe assault weapons should not be allowed in civilian hands, but that's my thought.

The second takeaway is the intelligence community is really going to have to shape up in a dramatic way. It has been proven that when you cast the net so wide such as with mass surveillance, you understand nothing. The FBI was investigating the shooter before the incident occurred, but he was was still able to purchase weapons right under their nose. I think the problem is they just had too much data to sift through to track him. I think if they shy away from mass surveillance and move towards a targeted surveillance approach, not only will it be better for them in getting the information they need, but it will be better for all of us, because it will preserve our privacy.

I don't think the motives of the shooter will be all that illuminating. People join ISIS for random reasons and mass shootings are usually committed by socially marginalized people with a lack of morality.

[Diapered Jason]

2 hours ago, DL-FTW said:

The shooter did not use an AR-15

also, the AR-15 is not an assault rifle...

He used a Sig Sauer MCX, which is similar to the AR-15. Both are classified as assault rifles. Please, don't argue with me that it is not the same weapon used by the military, because it is. There is no reduction in bullet momentum. It is the same weapon. I don't care if you call it a sporting rifle, because it can be an assault rifle too.

[Dubious]

Its better than an AR-15, since its easier to use (apparently)

[Diapered Jason]

Fully automatic is not that important, not next to the ability of the gun to fire a projectile at greater velocities. Anyway, the AR-15 can be upgraded to be fully automatic if you by the feeder accessory.

My point has always been that it is the same design as the M16, which is hardly ever used in fully automatic mode anyway.

[Repaid1]

4 hours ago, Dubious said:

Its better than an AR-15, since its easier to use (apparently)

Easier how? On the AR, you put in a magazine, release the charging bolt, a round is chambered, you pull the trigger, bullet is fired and the next round is chambered, rinse and repeat.

Exactly the same way this rifle works that was used....It is merely a cheaper clone of the original, which is the Civilian version of the M-16 which is a automatic weapon. Meaning The M-16 can fire multiple rounds as long as the trigger is held, and the civilian versions fire one bullet each time the trigger is pulled. These are called Semi-Auto. There are far more powerful rifles, that are also Semi-Auto and they are classified as sporting rifles. The only reason the public and those not knowledgeable and appear to induce "Fear factor" regard these as a Assault Rifle, is that they appear to "look" like a military rifle (They are not) and use the same shell/ammunition....which by fact so do 10's of other rifles that are not classified as assault weapons...This could be argued all day, but those from the Military know which is which and also know a auto weapon or a semi-auto weapon have the same destructive force and capability as a single action weapon. A weapon of any class in the hands of a trained "professional" (as he was) could have exactly the same or higher consequences. These weapons have been in use for 100's of years and not just in the military and even then were never classified as "Assault" . Now lets get back to the topic at hand and not let the fear mongering media control what you should already know. This was a tragedy and you can point to this and that, but it boils down to a young man with hate in his heart and confusion in his brain...and as stupid as it may sound for some, I feel sorry for him and what he must have felt to come to this, if he was even able to comprehend the terror of such a event or he felt so lost inside.

[Diapered Jason]

My apologies Repaid1. Perhaps a discussion about assault rifles should be started in a new topic (I don't watch the news). My intention was to strike up a conversation about what can be done to prevent these tragedies in the future.

[Bettypooh]

There's too much placing of value on terminology here. Back in 1910 a bolt action rifle was an "assault rifle" yet we wouldn't call it that today. And it is not a high-powered round, in fact it was designed to be weak so as to seriously wound the opponent but not kill them. The same goes for names regarding religions and sexual orientations- they matter very little here. This guy was mentally unstable with inadequate regard for the value of human life. That is not often an inherent condition but one which is taught and ingrained into a person's belief system through outside influences. Therein lies the real problem, and the best (probably the only effective) solution lies there as well.

Each of us chooses what

[Wet Knight]

On 13/06/2016 at 2:35 PM, Elfy said:

You can look at practically any metric for shootings and gun crime and more often than not USA is at the top. I have spoken to people here before and I know that America's fascination with guns is too strong for anything to be done about it, we just all sit here and when the headline "Mass shooting in USA" appears there isn't much surprise.

One way or another there is a big problem and no one is quite sure how to fix it. But right now we are just going to keep seeing the same thing happen over and over again.

[Diapered Jason]

How many posts were there in this thread where they said that they were not quite sure what the problem was? Well, why not let the CDC investigate to find out the cause for the rise in gun violence and deaths in this country. The only problem is the federal government is preventing that investigation from occurring. You can all call your Congress woman/man and tell them to let the investigation occur. I think we can all agree that this is a much better approach than banning bullets or looking at ourselves in a mirror.

[smokey]

Gun crimes is actually on the decline with gun perchases on the incline according to the FBI and CDC. Thesr types of shootings are very rare, the media likes to sensationalize these stories to make it look like we have a huge gun problem. There are over 100 million gun owners in the US, if we were a problem, you would know it. I don't see obummer laying a wreath in Chicago.

[AwakenEvil]

When none uses the term assault rifle I instantly view any comment they make

[redneck diaper boy]

On ?6?/?12?/?2016 at 2:16 PM, musicaddict said:

I'm so fucking tired....how many times? How many FUCKING TIMES does this have to happen before people fucking ACKNOWLEDGE there's a god damn PROBLEM with this fucked up country.

The problem is not America. The problem is we are letting these Islamic terrorist assholes enter the country. It is time to close the border until we figure out how to vet these people. The Israelis have it down to a science. It is time to profile these people.

[Personalias]

44 minutes ago, redneck diaper boy said:

The problem is not America. The problem is we are letting these Islamic terrorist assholes enter the country.

[DL4LIFE]

10 hours ago, Personalias said:

Most recent shooter was an American born citizen.

[Personalias]

14 minutes ago, DL4LIFE said:

He may have been, but we left his father into this country with his radical preaching. You don't think that has any bearing on the situation?

Do you really think that banning people based on their religion is gonna do anything other than make bad people lie about their religion so that they can do more harm?

[Personalias]

13 minutes ago, diapersalways said:

he among other suspected terrorists were to be denied entry because of their affiliations with those type of groups when hillary clintons state department went above the pentagons heads and forced them to allow entry anyway.

That's a very well reasoned response; that being said:

[Personalias]

1 minute ago, diapersalways said:

but lets ponder why that matters to you? it matters not to the facts of the only meaningful sentence that of " if we had atleast been banning people based on their vocal support of the taliban then this shooting would not have happened. " yet you wanted to focus on her anyway, interesting...

It matters to me because I'm about putting blame where it's due.

[Personalias]

13 minutes ago, diapersalways said:

well no as was posted a page ago the shooters father preached support for the Taliban while running for president of Afghanistan, he didnt immigrate until after he lost that election. so this was BEFORE he came to america. and it was the reason the pentagon had him on a list of people who where to be denied entry before the state department threw the list out.

But I'm saying, in the 1980's the Taliban weren't our enemies.

[Diapered Jason]

This is just political banter with Immigration reform being used as a wedge issue. Nobody is going to pretend we do not need immigration reform, but this discussion was started because of a Donald Trump quote, which makes the whole discussion irrelevant.