My experience with stents

[roo]

Qwerty,  I'm  glad you made that decision. There does seem to be a certain theme of stenters becoming overconfident and going line free,  then waking up with the stent lost in to the bladder.

I use braided fishing line. Crazy strong, smooth, holds knots quite well, and quite soft. Peppermint floss. Ooops.

 

[Loveable_guy]

Yea, one lost stent was all it took for me. The braided fishing line works well with a 1.25" O ring tied to the end of the pull cord works well for me.  Dental floss is too thin for my risk level acceptance.

[InD]

On 5/6/2019 at 8:26 PM, qwerty said:

So I just recently finished gathering all the parts of my cloth diaper system, so I just put my stent back in now that I'm ready for some 24/7 diapering. I'm going to try to refine the stent so that I can wear it 24/7, ideally making it comfortable enough that I barely know it's there. 

I've found that with cathdiap's design, which I'm calling the "original", that the retrieval line causes significant urethra abrasion. Especially right where the front of the stent ends, I've found I always get sore there in short order. It has something to do with the way the urethra bends around the end of the stent, and thus the string tends to be pulled tight there. So the ideal design involves no retrieval line. This is of course risky, since there's no way to remove the stent if it migrates in. If we can make a stent that doesn't migrate though, this problem will be solved.

Over the past week or so, I've been wearing my stent with a retrieval line, which I can't do for very long without discomfort. I did this to make sure that even throughout my daily activities, the stent does not migrate at all. I went through several modifications of the stent to make this possible. I've found several keys to this:

1. don't skimp on the length of the back end (the part in the bladder). Make it at least 3cm long. This makes it so that the stent hits the wall of your bladder if it ever gets pushed inwards, and thus this will help prevent migration into the bladder. Don't make it too long though, or else it will always be hitting your bladder wall, which is rather uncomfortable. This might also make the stent not fit properly, if it can't make it far enough into your bladder (see next point).

2. The middle section's length (the section between the 2 bends) has to be just right. This way, the stent actually hugs the bend of your urethra and this makes it much more secure. Same applies for the angle of the bends themselves.

3.  Make the bends relatively stiff. Knowing what I do now, I have to caution against roo's approach of using springs, if you want to go line-free. It still works fine if you do have a retrieval line. If the bends of the stent can change shape, there's significantly less holding power. This particularly bad since your urethra is stretchy too. Both the stent and the urethra being stretchy make it so that the stent isn't being held in place by anything in particular. However, if the bends are stiff, the stent is like a key, which only fits well in a single point along your urethra. 

I think the front bend (the one that will rest outside of the second sphincter) is the most important. Make sure the bend is between 70-90 degrees, as this mirrors your urethra's bend. Also make sure you use a bit more stiff pipe than needed, such that the straight sections surrounding the bend are also stiff for about 1-1.5 cm. This way, the stent is really locked in at that location, and is unlikely to want to slip into your bladder. 

The combination of points 2 and 3 point to what I think is the most important principle in this kind of stent: the stent should, through trial and error, be shaped to exactly fit the 2 sphincter region of your urethra. The stent should hold this shape reasonably well, especially at the 2 points that it bends. This way, through the springiness of your urethra, the stent will only want to come to a rest at a single point in you. This way, it will not migrate.

 

So far, I've been wearing the stent all day without a hint of discomfort, while normally I would be starting to get a bit sore by now. The stent has not moved at all, and we'll see how it goes from here. I'll try to update tomorrow to see how sleeping goes. Hopefully I've got the perfect dimensions this time, and this stent is 24/7 viable

Couple of things if I may....

1.  I'm not sure I want the back part long enough to hit the wall of the bladder it there is an issue.  That's that the retrial cord is for.  The bladder is not a super strong membrane.  You don't want to be constantly poking it.  I've had the stent go into my bladder and had no issue pulling it out with the line, that's why it's there.  

3.  Every bladder is different.  Closer to 45 still works best for me.  Everyone has to find their own best fit.

What are you using for the retrieval line?  I spent most of 2018 with a stent in place ( my adventures are on tumblr, or were before they went full pg as ind247).  I've never had an issue with the string.  I'm using 9lb fishing line and it's perfect.  Not too thick and holds knots n

Have fun and good luck.

 

[qwerty]

11 hours ago, InD said:

Couple of things if I may....

1.  I'm not sure I want the back part long enough to hit the wall of the bladder it there is an issue.  That's that the retrial cord is for.  The bladder is not a super strong membrane.  You don't want to be constantly poking it.  I've had the stent go into my bladder and had no issue pulling it out with the line, that's why it's there.  

3.  Every bladder is different.  Closer to 45 still works best for me.  Everyone has to find their own best fit.

What are you using for the retrieval line?  I spent most of 2018 with a stent in place ( my adventures are on tumblr, or were before they went full pg as ind247).  I've never had an issue with the string.  I'm using 9lb fishing line and it's perfect.  Not too thick and holds knots n

Have fun and good luck.

 

1.  Yeah that was more of a contingency if one were to go without a retrieval line, which I now think is a bad idea. A retrieval line is much better for preventing loss of the stent.

And I absolutely agree on the every bladder is different thing. This is probably the biggest problem that we stent builders face, since what works for others usually can't just be copied and be expected to work.

 

If you wouldn't mind answering some questions, How do you keep the retrieval line from getting pulled taut when you get an erection/ shift in certain positions? I find that my line tends to grip on the opening of the urethra and this causes the line to be tensioned inside my urethra whenever the urethra path gets longer for any reason. I believe this to be a major source of the problem I'm having with the retrieval line.

[squeeek]

Dunno if anyone is interested as there seems to be a lot of concern about how hard it is to insert a stent so  I did a video today.

I normally leave in to about 7 days before removing cleaning and reinserting. One thing I have noticed after doing this for the last 6 months. I can hold no problem when the stent is out but not for long.

Dunno how long this will stay up for but here is the link before youtube knobbers take it down but here is the link

 

[diapered 4 ever]

On 6/3/2019 at 8:02 AM, squeeek said:

Dunno if anyone is interested as there seems to be a lot of concern about how hard it is to insert a stent so  I did a video today.

I normally leave in to about 7 days before removing cleaning and reinserting. One thing I have noticed after doing this for the last 6 months. I can hold no problem when the stent is out but not for long.

Dunno how long this will stay up for but here is the link before youtube knobbers take it down but here is the link

 

It would appear not long.  lol

[Alex Bridges]

To what does the retrieval line attach inside the tube?

[TGalactic2012]

On 3/31/2016 at 4:44 PM, Loveable_guy said:

Cathdiap,

How does one take it out looks more dangerous than its worth glad you did successfully but i enjoyed watching your description video

[roo]

On 6/15/2019 at 11:30 AM, Author_Alex said:

To what does the retrieval line attach inside the tube?

I think there are a number of methods, but I use a short length of sterling silver tube, bought from jewellery suppliers, that fits firmly into the tube. I can tie the string to that. There's no way it can come out because it behind the bends. 

Love your avatars, btw.

[dlnoir]

Personally I think there is little or no risk involved as long as you know what you are doing. I use fishing line for a retrieval line. I have been into stents for the last twelve or thirteen years now, I never had the fishing line fail on me. Same thing applies for installing or removing a stent. If you found or designed one that works for you just take it easy while installing and while removing it is no contest.

[GrumpyMonk]

23 hours ago, roo said:

I think there are a number of methods...

 

1 hour ago, dlnoir said:

Personally I think there is little or no risk involved as long as you know what you are doing. I use fishing line for a retrieval line. I have been into stents for the last twelve or thirteen years now, I never had the fishing line fail on me. Same thing applies for installing or removing a stent. If you found or designed one that works for you just take it easy while installing and while removing it is no contest.

I made my most successful design to date about three weeks ago. As I was trying to come up with the most useful way to post an update here, I couldn't help but think that it would be far more efficient to curate all the experience and wisdom from this thread into it's own website for safer and easier consumption (by newcomers and veterans alike). Maybe someone with more web design experience than me (basically none) could make quick work of such a project. Just thought I'd put the idea out there.

[Loveable_guy]

GrumpyMonk, I'm sure we all be interested to see your updates, I know I look forward to seeing it. 

As for another site my preference would to keep it here and support DD. 

[GrumpyMonk]

On 6/22/2019 at 5:50 AM, Loveable_guy said:

GrumpyMonk, I'm sure we all be interested to see your updates, I know I look forward to seeing it. 

As for another site my preference would to keep it here and support DD. 

After I submitted that post, I realized the awkward implication. Not my intention, for sure. The main idea was just that a format like a wiki or something would be a more efficient tool for organizing the fair bit of collected knowledge here. Not as a replacement, but as a more convenient reference for when anyone is looking to do stent design work.

Speaking of that update... I feel like a created more questions than I answered. For example: Do we know if the prostate can swell toward the bladder when you're, say, going to town on PornHub? Can't be sure, obviously, but I have this sneaking suspicion that the distance between the two sphincters may not be the same at all times.

Iterating on the malecot makes things sore pretty quickly, so I'm going to try the underinflated foley method again. Last time, I punctured the fill line trying to plug it with a piece of hard plastic that was too big and too sharp. I also didn't like how it encroached on the space in the drain line. That's valuable real estate ?. Can someone remind me what people use here?

On 2/6/2018 at 6:56 PM, Loveable_guy said:

To plug the cut end I use a piece of weed wacker line reduced in size to suit

Just found this and remembered that weed wacker line was what I tried, but it seemed way too big for the tiny fill line. Admittedly, I'm assuming there's basically only one size of weed wacker line.

Edited June 24, 2019 by GrumpyMonk
Answered my own question

[Loveable_guy]

GrumpyMonk, it was weed whacker line but in order to make a suitable size  I cut a 2" piece and spin it my battery operated drill while holding sandpaper around the line. You can create a nice tapered plug using this method and it easely cut to length when done with the tapering process. 

[qwerty]

Hey everyone,

 

So it's a really good thing I've got a retrieval line, because I woke up one morning with the stent deep in my bladder. Could have been an er trip without the line, but since I had it, it was a 5 minute inconvenience. I've had the stent in and out for the past few weeks, but as of today, I'm hoping to see how long I can go continuously. The holy grail is, of course, InD's experience, where he managed to spend an entire year totally incontinent.  

 

I've been having less problems with the stent comfort wise, and I'd say even sleep is about as easy stented than not. The stent is still working as intended, acting like an on/off switch for my bladder control. Maybe someday soon I'll get to the point where I just don't feel like turning it back on...

 

I've recently managed to figure out a 100% cloth diaper 24/7 cycle. This basically eliminates my ongoing costs for being stented, and the total cost was less than it would have cost to go 1 month in disposables. I've always preferred cloth, but now I'm at the point where I only need a few disposables on hand for emergencies when I'm out and about (it's impractical to carry more than 1 change of cloth). I think cloth a very natural choice for 24/7 diapering purely because of the massive, massive cost savings. 

 

So how is the stent journey going for everyone else?

 

[Catheterslave]

Too dangerous for me to try a home made stent. I stick with a Spanner stent my self ..

[qwerty]

Update: Stent 3.0

 

So after the stent migrated AGAIN at night, I decided it might be time to revise the design. Two things I wanted to improve: comfort, and non-movement. I've come up with two simple changes to the classic stent that improves both of these factors. Old stent on top, new on bottom. A retrieval line was added after the pic was taken.

As you can see, there were 2 changes. Firstly, the bottom bend (the one on the right) is nearly 90 degrees, and has a larger radius. The larger radius is for strength, as my tube will kink and collapse if I bend it too sharply, and this reduces the elastic springiness of the bend, which sorta defeats the purpose. Additionally, having a soft wide bend will allow the urethra to naturally wrap around it, which will probably do something to prevent movement. We're not relying on that though. The second, more important change, is that there is a third, reverse bend after the second bend. Note that those two bends are actually one piece of tubing. I think it's important to have a stiff connection between the two bends, as the geometry is essential to the movement stopping effect. 

 

I've made big strides in comfort, but that only means my stent time is measured in days rather than hours. Some of you may remember that I was having an issue with the retrieval line rubbing at the entrance of the stent. Today, I think I figured out the solution. I've implemented the solution, and it's feeling really comfy, but I've said that before. Since I'm dealing with small discomforts which build up over days, I can't reliably get an immediate gauge on the situation any more. So far though, I don't feel the telltale light rubbing of the old design. Here's a diagram that shows why I think this will help.

So as you can see on the left, the stent tip is pointed at an awkward angle. It will either cause a pressure point on the bottom, as shown in the diagram, or the stent could slide down to the right a bit and cause a pinch point on the upper/right wall of the urethra. This also causes the urethra wall to partially block the stent hole. I've found that the flow has improved with this last design. With the old design I could sometimes walk just a few steps to grab something before urine leaked out. Well, I found out the hard way that that won't work any more

Either way, since the tip of the stent is now in line with the urethra, in theory, no more irritation. Maybe I'll get to start measuring my stent time in weeks or months now. Or maybe this'll be the last comfort change needed to go indefinitely. Let's hope.

 

 

Now, on to stent non-movement. The diagram explains this one pretty well.

Basically, the old stent didn't reeeeally have anything to stop it going in, now that I think about it. All it takes is for something, anything (especially while you're asleep and unaware) to slide the outer tip of the stent into the external sphincter, and the next contraction of it will actually send the stent backwards, straight into the bladder!  For me at least, the external sphincter (ES) goes right up to the base of my penis, which is somewhat inconvenient. Because of the sharp bend in the urethra right at the base of the penis, that's as far as a stent can go, unless you want it to go a good 3 cm further, or else the tip will rub and poke like hell along the sharp bend of the urethra. So for that reason, the margin between the stent tip and the end of my ES is less than a cm. This probably explains why I lost the stent twice in 3 nights. Must have been a new sleeping position or something that pushed it the less than 1 cm require to get it lost. 

With the new design, I'm actually quite confident that it won't move into the bladder, but I'm still gonna stick with a retrieval line. Especially since I've now found that it's not really a source of discomfort. I may ditch it if, say, I can keep this stent in for at least two months (here's hoping!) without incident, but even that's a big maybe. The advantages of not having a retrieval line are small compared to the risks. 

 

Maybe this will help some of you out, but either way I'd love to hear how your stent journeys are going. 

To a wet, leaky future!

 

[GrumpyMonk]

Fantastic update, @qwerty. Thanks for sharing it. My most recent iterations have been focused on total stent length, and what that means for balancing comfort (too long: ending at a sensitive part of the urethra) with security (too short: kegels sort of grab the stent and push it inward). Rev.1 was a little too short. It felt like it terminated somewhere in the middle of the outer sphincter, such that flow was inconsistent. Rev.2 was too long, which made it pretty uncomfortable. There was no forgetting that it was there. Rev.3, about 1cm shorter than Rev.2, was just inserted about an hour ago, and so far feels pretty good. I find that it takes somewhere between 12 and 24 hours to get a fair sense of how it feels and what's likely happening inside, so time will tell if this is a Goldie Locks stent. I can say for sure that it's long enough to feel through the scrotum. Pretty sure that wasn't the case for Rev.1.

[squeeek]

Ok. Lets try again. Uploaded to a different place.

Hope fully will stay up a bit longer.

Vid of me inserting a stent to show how easy it is as a lot of people do seem worried about it.

I normally do not leave it in for more that 7 days before taking it out and cleaning before putting back in.

The longest I have left it in was on holiday which was 14 days. Bit scary going though airport security but lucky for me not stopped or patted down. Phew!!!

https://vimeo.com/350712383

 

[cathdiap]

The video has been removed already. I posted my video on youporn.com several years ago and it is still working. 

http://www.youporn.com/watch/9197816/how-to-become-incontinent/

Maybe you can put it there as well.

[cathdiap]

Like some of you I use stents to become incontinent and truly diaper dependent. In this condition I have participated in almost every activity I can think of.  I get easily bored by daily routines, the excitement of having to wear diapers at the same time helps me to get through these moments.

One of the best things I have done in the recent years was undergoing minor skin surgery under local anesthesia while incontinent and diapered. The diaper was completely exposed to the surgeon and his assistant as the incision had to be made pretty close to the diaper lining. It was nerve wrecking to slowly wet my diaper in front of them, but I have to say it was really cool to be treated and accepted as if I was a true incontinent person by these professionals. I know it may sound strange but somehow I felt less crazy afterwards. 

 

[GrumpyMonk]

@cathdiap

"It was nerve wrecking to slowly wet my diaper in front of them, but I have to say it was really cool to be treated and accepted as if I was a true incontinent person by these professionals. I know it may sound strange but somehow I felt less crazy afterwards."

This feels important. Honestly, prior to about a month ago, I would have simply understood this as exhibitionism sprinkled with some self-acceptance (with which I've had some experience). Recently, I started wearing for periods of several days in a row, but specifically around certain people that used to generate too much fear to be able to continue. It has spurred meditations on the same sentiments you mention. I'm still going out of my way to be reasonably discrete under clothing, but really breaking through the anxiety around thoughts like "omg what will I say if this person notices" is a deep and powerful kind of liberation.

Stent update: 

Malecot stent rev.3 only survived about 12 hours (including overnight). Standing flow was fine. Sitting flow was pinched somewhere until slouching with terrible posture straightened the hips. Sitting comfort was also pretty poor because of where the distal end settled in the urethra. Lying in bed, there was still resistance somewhere. I could only get a flow going by tightening my abs. Before falling asleep, I noticed a tendency for inward migration, and I woke up with the fairly sharp sensation of fishing line being pulled across the tip of the penis, so that's when it came out.

Slightly dejected, I'm reconsidering the concept of bypassing only the outer sphincter. While drips seem preferable to flows as far as dry pants are concerned, I think I'll risk the embarrassment of a leak over the embarrassing and painful urinary retention due to a perpetually activated outer sphincter that feels like it could press coal into diamonds.

Stent on, friends.

[Millerlite]

I want to know if it hurts putting it in? I’ve never put anything in there before but would love to experience full incontinence

[Allornothing]

41 minutes ago, Millerlite said:

I want to know if it hurts putting it in? I’ve never put anything in there before but would love to experience full incontinence

I can't speak for a stent as I'm not brave enough yet to try one.  However, I've been dabbling in catheters for a few years...so I can give you a valid response.  I suggest ordering a catheter online first and experiencing that a few times, so you understand what's about to happen.

The first time I used a catheter, the insertion was uncomfortable on the verge of pain.  However, removing it was so bad to me I was afraid I'd have to go to the emergency room to have it removed.  After my first experience, I didn't try for about a year.  Yet I tried it again and learned that those sensations were just new, not really pain.  They were so intense, that my mind interpreted them as pain.

Now, years later I describe the sensation as intense.  Insertion is hard to do without getting an erection now, so I can scratch off pain.  Removal is still uncomfortable and not really fun, but it's over in a few minutes.   

[qwerty]

On 7/28/2019 at 10:30 PM, GrumpyMonk said:

Fantastic update, @qwerty. Thanks for sharing it. My most recent iterations have been focused on total stent length, and what that means for balancing comfort (too long: ending at a sensitive part of the urethra) with security (too short: kegels sort of grab the stent and push it inward). Rev.1 was a little too short. It felt like it terminated somewhere in the middle of the outer sphincter, such that flow was inconsistent. Rev.2 was too long, which made it pretty uncomfortable. There was no forgetting that it was there. Rev.3, about 1cm shorter than Rev.2, was just inserted about an hour ago, and so far feels pretty good. I find that it takes somewhere between 12 and 24 hours to get a fair sense of how it feels and what's likely happening inside, so time will tell if this is a Goldie Locks stent. I can say for sure that it's long enough to feel through the scrotum. Pretty sure that wasn't the case for Rev.1.

I absolutely agree that the total length is critical. I think it has to be right to within no more than 2mm of error or else the stent will be very uncomfortable. One easy way I've found to find the right length is to take a catheter, or stent you know is too long and insert it. Then, clench and unclench your sphincter (try to "stop the flow" of pee) and you should be able to feel the movement of the sphincter with your finger. Move your finger along while doing this, and you can basically map out exactly where your outer sphincter starts and ends. Then, make your stent such that it reaches about 3 mm further than the end of your sphincter, and it should be perfect. A good test at this point is to try clenching again. If the stent is too short, you will feel discomfort when you clench, as the sphincter tightens around the sudden end of the stent. If, however, the stent clears the sphincter completely, then you should not really feel anything different than if the stent were not there.

@Strangedude9990 I recommend you give this method a try, in order to get the length of your stent right in one go. Also, I'm not there to see it in person, but from the pictures you've posted, it seems to me like the ending of your stent is sticking/flaring out a bit, and will eventually cause irritation. Maybe try to get it smooth and in line with the rest of the stent?

@Millerlite: It should ideally not be painful. However, for beginners it usually is lol. This is mostly because inexperienced ones do something wrong, such as inserting too fast, without enough lube, too large, or their cath just came with sharp eyelets that they didn't soften first, or they did everything right, but tried to insert into an already sore urethra that needed time to recover. As for myself, there's no pain at all when inserting, and I would hesitate to even classify the feeling as uncomfortable at this point. But that's because I have experience, and my urethra has gotten used to having stuff inserted. The takeaway though, should be this: it will start out uncomfortable, but should not be painful. It will get much better with time, so long as you listen to your body. 

Also, mini stent 3.0 update:

I had had it in last week, when it became uncomfortable after only a few hours. This was very strange, especially since the discomfort was in front of the stent, where there was no stent at all! Well, it turns out I messed up with the retrieval line again. Learn from my mistakes guys: don't used #69 industrial grade bonded nylon thread. It's rough. Duh. Today, I switched back to floss, which I washed the mint off of this time, and in just the few hours I've had it in, I've already noticed a big difference. We'll see how it goes this time