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ABDLism =/= LGBT


Elfy

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4 hours ago, ELLIE52 said:

I don't think ABDL equals LGBT by any means.

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On 10/18/2017 at 5:56 PM, ForbiddenFruit said:

ForbiddenFruit saidWhy do cishets keep necro-ing threads like these. Why.

 

ELLIE52:  My apologies for necro-ing but I was replying to a younger date. I may be a cisgender, but het is a far cry from being among my virtues. Is that normal, going around calling people cishets?

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After reading all posts, I get it a bit more, why LGBT get so upset by this comparison. Still I think it there better and worse ways to educate about this issue, doing this in a way that is mean, excluding and dimishing being an ABDL, is not OK.

It seems that many here think, that if an AB had the urge to publically dress as an AB, it something that is sick, perverted, immoral and asking for trouble, while on the other hand it is not for a TG. Sure, I get the difference between gender identity and age identity, but I hoped that the TG would be a bit more tolerant and open minded to the AB, but maybe being a TG doesn't magically make you not an idiot like everyone else ;)

If on daily diapers, no one can be found to share that liberal world view, where can?

And maybe we can at least, the bare minimum all accept this rule?

There shouldn't be a ranking on how bad discrimination against sexual minorities is, it is just always bad.

Who gets to decide that being AB is just a little thing, easy to supress while being gay is not?

Sexual minorities are discriminated against all over the world, and if LGBT, ABDL, Crossdresser, and other fetishists don't stand together against that, then we do not achieve the ultimate goal of freedom and acceptance of sexual-diversity.

To the two specific posts, answering me:

Both of you talk about equaling ABDL and LGBT, which is not what I was talking about, I was talking about comparing and finding similarities.

Also I feel it is ok in this case to necro a 3 year old thread because it is out there on the internet, permanently, timeless, visible and hurting others that think like I do.

I also want to state, that being ABDL - even in western countries - is still seen as a disorder, it is still in the DSMD( F65?), while homosexuality is a not (anymore), and it is irrelevant, how good it can be hidden, it is the fact it has to be hidden in the first place that is the problem.

I do know that there are countries where LGTB go to prision or even face death penalty, some people I deeply love and care about are gay, and one of him is my brother. He is works and travels over the world, also to egypt.

In all honesty, do you really think that in these countries/societies ABDLs(in their mind just other perverts) would be any better off than LGBT, given they don't hide?

And if so, then this argument just boils down to the aspect of hiding. And while ABDL can be hidden, well, so can LGBT - I have witnissed this. From my point of view, it is also not about hiding privacy, it is about living a lie and having secrets - and there, I do see similarities. And just stating that an openly/publicly out TG is in any way more serious, more important than being an openly/publically out AB, is too much of a generalisation, since it always varies between indiviuals, how important the living-it-out-in-public aspect is, and how much the hiding and lying hurts.

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12 hours ago, Little Christine said:

Absolutely correct ABDL and LGBT are separate and independent categories and may or may not overlap in a person. Niether are causal nor linked to the other in any substnative way,, unless I am a male lesbian

Well OBVIOUSLY ABDL and LGBT are separate and independent categories.

but so are L and G and B and T. Just saying...

Also I am Bisexual, and I am really mad at LGTQ for comparing with me. (no not really, I am Bi, but, it was just a joke that I am mad at anyone (who is open, accepting and loving to other beings))

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That does not "link" them to each other. the link is to a larger idea, as you say, hiding, self-acceptance etc. In some places and times, that could pertain to a minority religion

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There's no rules against necro-posting here by design. If you prefer to pick up on an old thread instead of starting a new one that's OK :D

I've known all types of people, and in them all tolerance of others is always variable. That;'s counter-intuitive but it's true :( Even among those in the smallest minorities or with the largest visible differences you find some who are intolerant. I've never been able to figure out a pattern to this intolerance save that it occurs more often in less-intelligent types. And I can find no solution either though I wish I could. All that anyone can do is to be their best and to treat others the same way they want to be treated and hope that it is noticed and catches on

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10 hours ago, WSvenH said:

I also want to state, that being ABDL - even in western countries - is still seen as a disorder, it is still in the DSMD( F65?), while homosexuality is a not (anymore), and it is irrelevant, how good it can be hidden, it is the fact it has to be hidden in the first place that is the problem.

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3 minutes ago, Saschadzg said:

LGBT fought for homosexuality to be thrown out of the ICD. They did not indulge in self hate and instead went into the streets to fight, on Christopher Street for the first time.

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2 hours ago, WSvenH said:

Someone who is gay and DL might think that the DL side is just a small kink as opposed to the gay side of her, which is clearly more visible to the outside and a larger part of her personality.

So what is this about? How big a part of someones personality $sexualDeviation is?The whole question - for me - revolves more or less around social stigmatization vs acceptance, because for me ABDL is a big part of who I am as a complete person. T

The stigmatization begins with the internal stigmatization, also called shame and self hate. Only after that we may start campaigning for social accaption.

There is a lot a self reflection and personal work to go through for the AB/DL world.

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13 hours ago, Saschadzg said:

The stigmatization begins with the internal stigmatization, also called shame and self hate. Only after that we may start campaigning for social accaption.

I wonder how much the fact the we humans are social beings plays into that. It is often stated that acceptance and self-love must come from within, but as a matter of fact, humans evolved for thousands of years in a closely tied social context, where being accepted and liked was the fundamental condition of survival.

From an evolutionary point of view, the concepts self hate and interal stigmatization don't make sense, unless they are causally linked with hat and stigmatization by the group/the society.

So for me at least, there is no problem with self-acceptance if enough others accept me, so that my existance is not threatended, it's mostly about what others think, I am a social animal.

Why would I for my self care to judge or shame myself!? Shame and hate come from the outside, for me at least :)

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19 hours ago, Saschadzg said:

The stigmatization begins with the internal stigmatization, also called shame and self hate.

Absolutely. You can only be offended or shamed when you accept it. If you refuse to accept it, then it doesn't matter what someone else thinks :P We here all know that there is nothing wrong with being LGBTQ or ABDL, but society at large hasn't grasped that truth yet and that is where the problem is really at :( How we solve that I do not know but I am all for having it happen :)

Bettypooh

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8 hours ago, Bettypooh said:

it doesn't matter what someone else thinks

Well it mattered at least the last 1 million years what others thought... the concept of self just is derived from living in a social context, hence the matter of acceptance is never only a matter of self acceptance, it's always acceptance from the (virtual) court of public oppinion.

Let me try to explain my thoughts:

Every social being somehow is required to model the society in their heads, in order to fit in and support each others interest in survival.

Self-acceptance is the minds construction of an assumed public, that judges one's position in society in a favorable way.

This model consists of many layers: Members of the same fetisch, Inner family, best friends, signaficant others, spouses, friends, neighbours, college, the city, country, sports club, and it is assumed that this modelling happens on multiple layers, and I assume, that some of these layers are more relevant for survival than others (co-workers, boss, customers, police, significant others, parents if your a minor).

For me self-acceptance translates to the congruent construction of an accepting subset of this assumed/implicit public, comprised of those layers, that are vital to well being or even survival.

And this leads me to critisizing the emphasis on self-acceptance:

Because it can easily lead to self-deception by faking the results of this acceptance-simulation.

Thas is not to say that there's no value to that in and of itself, it definitely lowers the blodd-pressure and cortisol levels, but does it really help in reaching actual acceptance - which is vital, especially in societies where sexual devation is sanctioned by law?

When self-acceptance is self-deception, one tends overly paint the actual society darker than it really is.

Self-acceptace should not hinder someone from going out, meeting actual society and try real people - they might be much more accepting than the simulation predicts.

This is due to the inherent negativity bias of the brain.

when I came out to many about wearing diapers for non-medical reasons, I had the worst of all scenarios in mind, but it turned out always much better than what I head simulated in my mind.

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6 minutes ago, tyrantblade3500 said:

I really dont get the desire to be out in public showing your diaper/other ABDL attire to the world

Ok, I beleive this is self deception out of fear of rejection and shame, it is quite natural (and proposed to be a fundamental human right) to express ones sexuality.

6 minutes ago, tyrantblade3500 said:

And i dont equate it to LGBT struggles.

Again equate is not the point, compare is what we can and should do.

6 minutes ago, tyrantblade3500 said:

ABDL can be hidden away most of the time and enjoyed when away from

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9 minutes ago, WSvenH said:

Ok, I beleive this is self deception out of fear of rejection and shame, it is quite natural (and proposed to be a fundamental human right) to express ones sexuality.

Again equate is not the point, compare is what we can and should do.

Everything can be hidden, and how does ABDL not define someone? Sex-Experts agree, that the sexual characteristics are a very integral, defining part of a human. Also the last part is just a tautology, you could say that for any property or characteristic of a person.

LGBT is not more or less defining than being ABDL, also the sexual attire has individually varying degrees of importance, who has the right to define the norm of how much a person is defined by their fetisch or sexual orientation - also some argue having a strong fetisch is a sexual orientation in and of itself.

Who would want to oppress anyone, expressing their sexuality in a way, that is not harmful to others?

I think that has been one of the nicest statements I have read in this thread :)

Well i guess for me i dont see being AB/DL as something i need the public to see when im out doing things like buying groceries or going for a walk; or whatever i may be doing

Im not saying anybody should have to suppress their AB/DL side; im just saying; does it have to be a public spectacle?

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  • 1 month later...

Im bi and realized this in my early 20s. I think people associate being LGBT with anything else they see as sexually different. Its just an unfair way to categorize things. I get the sense on this site that most ABDLs are actually hetero which would probably surprise many out there.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/20/2017 at 3:07 PM, rubbersheetmike said:

I think people associate being LGBT with anything else they see as sexually different.

I disagree.  I think most people still realize differences for what they are (wanting to wear diapers, being attracted to someone of the same gender, etc).  The question is if they are able to recognize what is or is not a problem, (such as the difference between an AB and a pedophile), and to be able to not automatically assume that anything different is bad.  

On 12/20/2017 at 3:07 PM, rubbersheetmike said:

I get the sense on this site that most ABDLs are actually hetero which would probably surprise many out there.

Why do you say that?

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Jeez, even AB != DL necessarily  and LGB != T.   There are plenty of transsexuals that other than their personal gender dysphoria don't have other sexual issues.   Lots of people equate BD/SM to LGBT as well.

Assuming there's some necessary correspondence isn't accurate although there's certainly overlap.   And if that overlap exists, then anybody whose open enough to discuss one likely will also talk about the other.   This is why you see a lot of S&M stuff at pride events, etc...

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15 hours ago, Firefly 35 said:

I disagree.  I think most people still realize differences for what they are (wanting to wear diapers, being attracted to someone of the same gender, etc).  The question is if they are able to recognize what is or is not a problem, (such as the difference between an AB and a pedophile), and to be able to not automatically assume that anything different is bad.  

Why do you say that?

Im just going by what I believe a lot of people still think. I dont think tolerance is as strong as a lot of people like to think it is. Younger people have grown up in an environment where gay bi and trans people are visible but not long ago these people weren't. I doubt that being an abdl is widely tolerated either although most likely wouldnt know if somebody is. A lot of people still equate sexual preference or lifestyle difference with negative things even if theres no logical reason for it. For those of us who know the difference theres no problem but we cant always assume that others think this way.

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  • 1 month later...

I think as a AB/DL it makes it easier to accept something that may be in the back of your mind. Having a diaper fetish is much worse than being gay or lesbian as far as how well it's accepted. Everyone's a little gay, to what extent determines whether or not you act on it. For me it took getting changed by a gay friend who's an AB to realize I have a curiosity I'd like to try out. I think my wife might understand as recently she got a girlfriend. Last night she was out at the bar and when she came home I asked if she got lucky. She stared at me and smiled as she pulled the other girl's panties out of her purse. ;D

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