Illegal Immigration..

[Dill_Pickle]

Oh my, Betty....you've clearly never had contact with some of the very abusive aspects of the legal immigration system.

I think a better approach would be to apply the constitution, in particular the bill of rights to EVERYONE, world-wide, and to note that if you are arrested in the US for a crime in the US you can expect to be detained for trial and serve a sentence, just as a voting citizen would, with separate proceedings as to whether or not you may stay once the sentence is completed.

[Elfy]

"Commenting on the Illegal alien/ Immigrant 'issue'. Something that people either forget or ignore or don't even bother to think about is the basic premise that The United States of America was founded on:....THAT IF YOU WANT SOMETHING, YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR IT AND EARN IT! Nothing is given."

[Diapered Jason]

Man, you guys are wonderful. The current law is if an illegal immigrant is caught committing a felony, they have to serve the jail time, then face deportation. Moreover, the fact that they are illegal just makes it so they are ineligible for bail.

[Bettypooh]

Man, you guys are wonderful. The current law is if an illegal immigrant is caught committing a felony, they have to serve the jail time, then face deportation. Moreover, the fact that they are illegal just makes it so they are ineligible for bail.

Perhaps yopu didn't see where I said "capital" crime. Where I live (SC) Assault and Battery is not a felony unless a deadly weapon is involved or serious bodily harm occurs. You can take a baseball bat to someone and as long as no bones break and no stitches are required it's a misdemeanor. And there have been a number of incidents here where illegals with a criminal record from their home country that prevents them from immigrating have done such deeds multiple times before getting caught. They know the system and they play it for all it is worth. And yes, they can get bailed out of jail for these too My point is that crime should always equal punishment under equal terms, citizen or not and that is not always happening with illegals.

[BabyGizmo]

what i was attempting to say in my post Jason, is that immigration is not in any way a black or white or even a grey issue, there are 100 different stories and viewpoints.

[Diapered Jason]

No, I guess I didn't read your posts thoroughly enough because it was late for me, but I believe what your saying about muslims is misguided. Your claim about Sharia law also does not make sense. Again, as I pointed out in an earlier post, you are blaming them for something that would happen anyway, but you appear to dislike. Perhaps you should think about the fastest growing group, people who have no religion, before you think the muslims did it. In America, people are usually misinformed about the religion of the founding fathers. The truth is they were kind of against religion, creating the constitution to separate government and religion. Then, sometime thereafter, we switched from that path putting in god we trust on our currency and requiring prayer in schools. Only recently have we started to reverse those changes, because more and more people are abandoning religion.

In the U.S., Christianity accounts for 73% while islam, judaism, buddasim, and Hinduism together are about 4% of the population. Current population with no religion is 19%. In Canada, this number is even higher with 24% claiming no religion.

To blame these changes in you country on Muslims is a bit prejudice, as the change is more likely being caused by people who are changing their minds about religion, an issue loosely connected to immigration at best.

[Bettypooh]

Nobody should be able to choose which set of "laws" they will follow once they step off of their own property You can still have full freedom of religion and do this too- the Amish people have been doing it for ages

[Personalias]

Nobody should be able to choose which set of "laws" they will follow once they step off of their own property

[BabyGizmo]

We have the right and responsibility to fight unjust laws in a respectable fashion, there is a process. first through government, then if they refuse to listen then though protest. The problem is people like to rant on their computers over going out and doing something, so most protest rallies are scattered and UN-organised, unlike the MLK protests of old, where you had 100's of thousands of people all fighting for a cause. we have tripple the number blogging the cause

[Elfy]

This won't be a popular opinion...

[Baby Brian]

You're right elfking, it's not a popular opinion. It is however, one I share completely.

[square_duck]

And what does "religion" have to do with a thread about Illegal immigration...?

[Elfy]

Well a lot of people who illegally immigrate are of a non-christian religion, in the UK... I think that difference in religion and culture is the thing that annoys most people about illegal immigration and immigration in general.

[Baby Brian]

Seconded, of course a lot of people also seem to hate immigrants simply because they often don't speak our language. I admit this is a peeve of mine too, though mostly it's because this makes it incredibly difficult to communicate with them and ensure they understand our laws and customs.

[BabyGizmo]

And what does "religion" have to do with a thread about Illegal immigration...?

We are discussing ALL facets of imigration, not just the ones that most people think about.

[Bettypooh]

I like the last paragraph Gizmo. And I'm with Elfking too. Religions get special status apart from other groups which are essentially otherwise the same. And that is wrong A model railroad or RC airplane Club has rules, beliefs, and regulations regarding behavior too but does not get that status. I like the concept seen on Star Trek where religious beliefs are acknowledged and their practice allowed, but it is seen as a personal thing and kept there where it belongs- personal and private with nobody being forced to accept something they may not believe in or agree with.

[Diapered Jason]

As I collected my wages today, I thought about how they have slid downhill through the years. Mostly because the ones who do not speak English know they are going to have to take whatever is offered them because they won't get too many opportunities not being able to communicate with everyone else. So they work for less and I have to match them or I'm out of work- and once that bar is lowered it never goes back up So while I am highly skilled, very competent, and industrious I have suffered greatly from the influx of immigrants who have also caused themselves to suffer equally low wages simply by not embracing their new country as they should have. Many other countries have set standards for immigrants and we should too, and if they do not meet those standards we should do as those other countries do- send them back. Just my $0.02 worth which took most of what I have left from this week's income after paying the bills

[Dill_Pickle]

Miss betty, I think you may be confusing cause and effect....I can re-write your conclusion, quite possibly incorrectly, as:

[Bettypooh]

In my case it was begun with a mixed lot, but most are now legal. Only recently has there beec a concerted effort by the government to ensure legality with huge fines now deterring those who would hire illegals. Had this been done a decade ago I wouldn't be complaining now but the damage is done. (that occured under Obama BTW) There are certainly other facets to it, some could be significant, but it boils down to there being too many people wanting the limited number of jobs and the pool of potential labor growing at an alarming rate, with most of them being immigrants. It's not that nobody wanted these jobs- when they paid decently there was enough of a supply of new bodies to keep things going- it's that the immigrants will work for lower wages, and with that the wages dropped and now nobody else wants a career in this business now. There were also some critical changes in employment laws making it more profitable for the business owners to contract out the work (that occured under Bush1 BTW) so the playing field changed too, and with that disconnect came a loss of benefits to those staying in the business. I have had to become a contract worker now, and I am no longer eligible for unemployemnt benefits, have to pay for my own job insurance and liability insurance, and have almost no chance to move forward without the ability to make a big jump financially to becoming the one hiring instead of the one being hired. So it's not totally all due to immigrants but that is still a large part of it.

[Dill_Pickle]

My point is, don't blame the bottom...the decisions that set up the destruction of the middle class were made at the top, not the bottom!

[BoTox]

All I've got to say on the topc is illegal is illegal. Not enforcing it doesn't make it legal. Acting like it isn't the law of the land doesn't make it legal. Creating a law out of executive orders doesn't make it legal (or illegal) because it bypassed the entire process.

[redneck diaper boy]

Border security will not happen under Obama's reign. If one looks at what he is doing, one would notice his sinister plan as outlined in Saul Alinsky's book "Rules for Radicals". Obama hates America and wants to reek havoc on America as a means of revenge. His sinister plan is to overwhelm our social service system and it is happening right now while he plays golf, shoots pool, drinks beer and attends fund raising events. We have our border patrol agents taking care of children instead of protecting our border. The border has many holes and the terrorist in the middle east have uranium. This also detracts attention from Obama's numerous number of

[Elfy]

"redneck diaper boy"

[BabyGizmo]

Shots fired!

[AwakenEvil]

Border security will not happen under Obama's reign. If one looks at what he is doing, one would notice his sinister plan as outlined in Saul Alinsky's book "Rules for Radicals". Obama hates America and wants to reek havoc on America as a means of revenge. His sinister plan is to overwhelm our social service system and it is happening right now while he plays golf, shoots pool, drinks beer and attends fund raising events. We have our border patrol agents taking care of children instead of protecting our border. The border has many holes and the terrorist in the middle east have uranium. This also detracts attention from Obama's numerous number of