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Don'T Know Why, But I Took It Upon Myself To Consider "Can You Be A Gay Christian?"

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I'm immensely slow with my blog because lollaziness, but a particular topic caught me in a tizzy because it's tripe lined with pitfalls.

http://politetimesplitter.wordpress.com/2012/07/27/answering-can-you-be-a-gay-christian/

Odd that I found myself worked up enough about it to laugh, then think about it for a few days, then spend a few hours adding all my thoughts together. Oh well, least I had a bit of fun in doing so :)

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Being that I despise most "Christian" types because they are not following the Bible but are instead following what someone else twists it into saying (which is a huge sin), and being that all people sin and continue to do so because we're human, I cannot see any reason a LGB person can't be a true Christian B) When you toss in the Gender equation it becomes totally undecipherable. My last GF identified as Lesbian and was, but she preferred T-Girls with or without 'surgery' (which I never had). So now, when we were together we were a Lesbian couple in gender but a heterosexual couple in sex- so which one do you go by here? :screwy: We both hold Christian beliefs but not necessarily like any one particular sect.

As I see it, if such a simple thing as one's sex or gender can change an act into a sin in someone's mind, then they are not seeing the thing clearly for both are beyond our control and neither is in itself sinful ;) With that, there can be no exclusivity here- either all types of sin prevents Christianity or no type sin prevents Christianity- it cannot be both ways at the same time B) If love and forgiveness is universal then yes, you can be LGB(T) and still be Christian. If that love and forgiveness is restricted to only certain types of people then it is not good enough to believe in, and in that it cannot really be good for it would then contain some bad- again these are exclusive concepts.

It's a deep thing to consider which I won't argue over because nobody can prove anything to anyone else concerning any religion or belief. Not being able to prove something does not mean it isn't true, nor does it automatically make that thing false- it only means that you can't prove it. Religion can be good for some people who need the extra affirmation in their lives to deal with this existence. Religions that do not ask you to harm other people in any way can be the only possibly good ones, and there are several of those. Believe what you will but love one another, harbor no ill-will in your heart, and do no intentional harm to anyone else and you're OK by me :D

Bettypooh

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I can assure you that there is nothing wrong with being a gay Christian. There might be churches that have a problem with it and bias Christians (or at least people who call themselves a Christian) crawling out of the woodwork, but you have to realize that it isn't as cool to hate on racial minorities in church as it used to be so they had to find a new and less defended scapegoat.

*hugs*

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I believe that, as long as you believe in Jesus, and fallow your interpritation of the Bible, you are a Christian.

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I believe you can be a gay christian, if you have love in your heart and treat others as you would want to be treated it shouldn't matter what your preference is. I've often heard it said if god didn't want gays he wouldn't have made us this way.

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Sure you can! I have no more problems with someone being Gay than if they, say, cheated on a test in second grade or stole a candy bar or drive at 58 in a 55. Sure, the Bible might say it's a sin, but until the church starts attacking EVERYONE since literally everyone sins, I think they shouldn't be hating on gays.

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Hey Guys I just wanted 2 add my thoughts 2 this discussion if its ok? I know I'm a lil long winded. Please forgive me.

# 1 please don't hate or hold it against me, that I can't spell or type very well ok? thanx.

As I c it,the real question this brings up is, what is yr interpration or defination 4 "Christian"?

People have been taught or come 2 believe, many diferent things.

If u r going by, based on ,what the Bible says , then all that is required is 2 "believe".

It's what people believe that differs here.

Most people decide what works best 4 what they want. I was taught it's not about us it's about God. It's what He wants & what He says but then again no one wants 2 b told what 2 do. When we reach a certain age ,we want 2 do what We want & if u tell us 2 do something, we may do the opposite , just 2 spite ya ,hehe, Right? We all rebelled from our parents or some authority figure in general at 1 time or another.

Many people believe the Bible is not realy true or that it has been altered or who realy knows or whatever.

so using it is hard 4 some 2 accept. I get that But It's a place 2 start anway. So here goes.

It's as easy as reading John 3-16 God loved the world so much, that He sent his own Son 2 die & take our place & pay the price 4 our sins. He says it's not anything we can earn ourselves. It's not by our works. It's a free gift. It's up 2 the world 2 accept or reject his gift. But it takes Faith 2 believe in something we can't c w/ or natural sences..

I was brought up in a verry religous home, was sheltered from the world 2 a certain extent but. I was taught good Christain values w/ a strong Bible based foundation. Like most normal people when I hit cretain terrible teen age yrs I rebelled, suprize!!!

I was taught 2 treat others w/ no judgement & 2 try 2 respect others. I was told we r 2 seperate what we do from who we r. or another way 2 say it is 2 love the sinner but hate the sin.

Everyone sins or falls short, misses the mark, makes mistakes, whatever u wana call it. Sometimes we even chose 2 do it on purpose, no mater who it may hurt. Thats human nature.

There came a time in my own life where I had accepted a lot but what I was fealing did not line up 2 what I was taught. Thats when things got interestiong. Welcome 2 my world!!!

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My view is that all religions have been twisted and perverted from their original forms. Since im a Buddhist / Agnostic I believe in karma which I think all religions teach. Do good things you get good things, do bad things get bad things. So I believe as long as you do good things by your fellow man any God should accept you.

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If I might offer an outsider's point of view....

I consider myself straight (I have had fantasies, but nothing more). But I am not a Christian. I have always seen Christians as kind of a paradox. They always speak of forgiveness, and accepting Jesus as their lord and savior, and a spot in heaven for doing so. Yet at the same time, they damn people to hell for views that might not be consistant with their particular sect of Christianity. What I dont understand is if we are all created in God's image, and we are his children, why would he hate us for something like that? In addition, christian specific, if all you have to do is accept Jesus as your lord and savior, shouldnt that be enough?

Please, chime in if I have something wrong. As I said, not a Christian.

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Can a gay person be a Christian, YES! We as humens and Christians must remember, Love the sinner, hate the sin! I have many friends who are gay, many are church attending people, some even serve as musicians in church! To be a true Christian, one must accept Christ as their savior! As far as life style, the old testament calls homosexuality sinful! We Christians know that Christ came for the sinner and not the righteous! A person who proclaims Christ as their savior, is known by Him and HE is the judge, not man! I hope that this may help you!

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By which Bible do you read that says being attracted to someone of the same sex is sin? The Bible does say that fornication and adultery is sin. Practicing fornication or adultery with with someone of the opposite sex or the same sex is sin.

You can't help who you are attracted to.

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Love the sinner, hate the sin!

Oh, if only 'Christians' followed that...and I extend that offer to the zealots themselves.

"Love the idiot, hate their ignorance"

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I don't get it. Why does Christianity put so much emphasis on sin? They are just trying to make everyone feel bad I guess, because everyone sins according to them. I really don't give a shit, lol, but I think Christianity (and I mean the major institutions) is one of the most aggressive religions out there. They are even oppressive to their own people it seems.

In reference to the op's question, there are gay Mormans, so I do not think there is anything really stopping you. Also, that article is pretty stupid regardless of what it says.

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I don't get it. Why does Christianity put so much emphasis on sin? They are just trying to make everyone feel bad I guess, because everyone sins according to them. I really don't give a shit, lol, but I think Christianity (and I mean the major institutions) is one of the most aggressive religions out there. They are even oppressive to their own people it seems.

In reference to the op's question, there are gay Mormans, so I do not think there is anything really stopping you. Also, that article is pretty stupid regardless of what it says.

Which is weird, considering that Mormons / the let's-enroll-dead-people-cult are one of the most opposed to homosexuality. Come to think of it, even though the Church of England was one of the most vocal in opposition to same-sex marriage legislation being announced because it would degrade the institution of marriage (oh, the irony :P ), I gotta hand it to them, they're one of the few that actually practice 'love the sinner, hate the sin' and have some idea of what they're talking about (shame that what they're talking about isn't reality).

Edit: Jason, though I'd chastise you for dismissing an argument before reading it under other circumstances, I should have made it clear all that time ago that the article isn't asking the question, it's me debunking it :P

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Edit: Jason, though I'd chastise you for dismissing an argument before reading it under other circumstances, I should have made it clear all that time ago that the article isn't asking the question, it's me debunking it :P

No, I read it. It was just written by an elementary student, which is why I thought it was stupid. This of course being "mutually exclusive" of the conclusion, but "mutually inclusive" of the question being addressed as well as the way it was written, lol.

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I don't get it. Why does Christianity put so much emphasis on sin? They are just trying to make everyone feel bad I guess, because everyone sins according to them. I really don't give a shit, lol,

Jason, If you earned billions, more than you could ever spend, and gave much of it away, would you first give it to close friends before casual aquaintances and finally people who were indifferent to you?

Christians think of the billions as God's Love.

In an orchard wouldn't you pick the best fruit that is easiest to reach? At the supermarket wouldn't you choose the best apples, leaving the blemished ones?. Some religions think God is like this.

Christian, among other religions, think of sin as being distanced from God. It follows that the more sin the greater the distancing, hence the emphasis on sin, as the root of their desire is that all mankind should strive to be closer to God and chosen.

As you say "everyone sins" and so people from time to time think up a different slant on how this might be achieved. Sometimes this sweeps up a host of followers, but leaving others with their old ideas, so that now there are a multiplicity of religions and disagreement about whose views are better.

Undoubtably there are powers of good and evil, and we judge them with our concience. So far, neither has vanquished the other.

Christians believe that God has an ace that will always trump the devil. He can do what the devil can't. HE can FORGIVE.

Christians believe that God is always willing to forgive everyone. All he asks is that people should be sorry for the things that their concience tells them were wrong and at least make the effort of asking for his forgiveness.

Through forgiveness Jesus streatches to pick the difficult fruit and removes the blemishes from the rejected apples and restores people closer to God.

I hope my poor explanation may in some small way, help you to "get it".

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Ok, then I think these particular Christians have a bad philosophy and a limited understanding of humanity, because they think in terms of good and evil to too much of an extent, which has a great many flaws. Also, if you are part of their major constructs, with a few revisions, anything can be made evil. In fact, if I recall, the pope puts out new sins every once in awhile.

But, I do not think this reflects all Christians, just some of them. I think many of them have more apathy than that, which is one of the reasons you can be a gay Christian. To that end, you can practice any religion you want in any way you want and be gay at the same time. Did I mention there are gay Muslims too.

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Jason: why do you thin there is so much emphasis on sin? As a Christian, from my point of view and churches point of view, we could care less what sins people outside the church commit. If you're a member of a church then there are different categories of sin that must be dealt with and others that do not. For example a member involved in an adulterous relationship must be dealt with. However, something like slothfulness doesn't. Even for members, sin is a personal responsibility issue, there are not secret police following members. Members are told what the bible says about sin and where to read it themselves and it is up to them to follow it. Even during communion, which should not be done if one is living in sin, it is still a personal decision and personal time of reflection. Now you can see why so many Christians do not live like christians. There is nothing forcing anyone to do right, which it is how it should be. Living sinless or in sin is a personal decision based on how you want to live for God. How does someones lack of devotion to God change what He has said about love and sin?

God loves everyone. And yes, there will be gay people in heaven. Only He can judge a hearts condition.

The question is, why does this matter so much to the gay community? If your not member of the church, why does it matter? Why would you want to be a member of a church then violate it's statement of faith. Why is their standards for their own members considered hate by others?

The reason why so many Christians are opposed to gay marriage is that marriage is a picture of God's relationship to the church. (to them, us) a marriage between two people of the same sex is a perversion (for lack of a better word) of that picture. Not saying that we should or shouldn't legislate our religion, but as you can see that is why there is so much opposition to it. Please don't go there with, divorce rate of Christians. No church condones divorce rates at these levels.

My personal opinion was, that all unions should be domestic unions under the law. If you want a marriage (the religious institution) then go to your church and get it. However, of lately, with all the "your a hater" and "if you have that opinion, keep it to yourself" the gay marriage crowd has shown themselves to be nothing but fascists and thought police. So, they lost some of the sympathy they once had with me. It's clear that this campaign is an assault on religion in general and has less to do with Mary and Debbie or Bill and Bob wanting Tom share their lives together.

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Jason: why do you thin there is so much emphasis on sin? As a Christian, from my point of view and churches point of view, we could care less what sins people outside the church commit.

Well, it certainly does not show, but that could just be your church that holds your view. There are enough Christians out there that do the opposite.

My personal opinion was, that all unions should be domestic unions under the law. If you want a marriage (the religious institution) then go to your church and get it. However, of lately, with all the "your a hater" and "if you have that opinion, keep it to yourself" the gay marriage crowd has shown themselves to be nothing but fascists and thought police. So, they lost some of the sympathy they once had with me. It's clear that this campaign is an assault on religion in general and has less to do with Mary and Debbie or Bill and Bob wanting Tom share their lives together.

I disagree, because I think you are mixing up politics with policy. For example, the Chick-Fil-A controversy has really nothing to do with anything. The fact that politicians would try to ban these fast food joints from their town, which I have no idea why you would want to kick out a valuable tax payer, says they do not really care about the policy, but rather the politics. They are just trying to distract you and get more votes in their town. It is the same the other way around as well. This is also the same reason we are still debating this issue as well. This is politics.

Since marriage is awarded by the state and not the church, your argument does not work unless all the state recognizes is domestic unions and not marriage ever. With that must come every benefit awarded to currently recognized marriages. If marriage is a title given to domestic unions in their church, then so be it, but the state cannot recognize it or even see it ever. Unfortunately, this is a hard sell because marriage is seen as tradition to both sides in different ways, which is the other reason we are having this social issue in the first place. I do not think either side wants to give up marriage. Also, "we're domestically unionized" does not quite have the same sound as "we're married." This is policy.

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I disagree, because I think you are mixing up politics with policy. For example, the Chick-Fil-A controversy has really nothing to do with anything.

Except Dan Cathy's statements were only the tip of the iceberg - because Chick Fil-A are so rooted in their (misinformed) position that they donated cash to groups such as Focus on the Family and Exodus International. Exodus. Fucking. International. One of the biggest 'reparative therapy of homosexuality' groups out there, and still going strong even though their president admits it doesn't 'cure' homosexuality and two of its founders came out and are now partners.

But hey, physical, emotional, and spiritual abuse are all okay when it's got a religion in front of it.

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Except Dan Cathy's statements were only the tip of the iceberg - because Chick Fil-A are so rooted in their (misinformed) position that they donated cash to groups such as Focus on the Family and Exodus International. Exodus. Fucking. International. One of the biggest 'reparative therapy of homosexuality' groups out there, and still going strong even though their president admits it doesn't 'cure' homosexuality and two of its founders came out and are now partners.

But hey, physical, emotional, and spiritual abuse are all okay when it's got a religion in front of it.

but why does that matter? Does he have a super PAC? Oh, he is a donor of a super PAC. Him and a million other people. Until you change the campaign rules, you are squealing your tires. You can't really attack Dan Cathy without becoming a part of the politics and hence the distraction. It is not going to get you anywhere closer to your actual goal. If anything, you actually help your political antagonists. In addition, other groups will take notice of this fight and begin to see their own political gain. In fact, that is probably one the reasons Chick Fil-A got injected into this debate in the first place. The same goes for the politicians who promptly attacked and defended Chick Fil-A.

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I see your point, but I wasn't exactly commenting on that, just pointing out that Dan wasn't just making noise. He puts his filthy money where his filthy mouth is - pseudoscientific, hateful, bullshit-fuelled ignorant harm.

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*Forewarning: I do not profess to know everything about christianity. I only know from my life experiences and lots of testing of my faith. I am a horrible and struggling christian, so don't take what I say as rules/laws I am only saying why I believe you can be a gay christian and what I use when test my faith.*

You can be gay christian. In fact, lots of people get the bible wrong, as there is no place in the bible it says gays are evil and sinful. It says in the old testament where the ACT of a man lying in bed with another Man is evil, and other instance where the ACT of a man and man sex is evil. But, that is the old testament and doesn't point out to gay people exactly (as he does with rapeist, whores, and the likes).

Here is where I think alot of conservative christian's skip in the bible it seems. First, Jesus says specifically that we are NOT to judge, and only God can give final judgement (so no saying gays are going to hell). Also, after his death, the disciples were often times directed to people and areas that were outcast and sinful. Which, would mean gays should be complaining about the unrelenting storm of christians supporting them and being friends. Finally, gays are people like everyone else. Thus, Jesus taught that we are to love and respect our neighbors.

But, nothing really stuck with me about treating gays with respect, as an athiest (later converted to christian before publishing his book) asking a professor of christian theology about free will. What he said was that God gave us free will to CHOOSE to follow him or not to follow him. God will respect our decisions, and will not force our hand. God will always guide us on a path he wants us to.

So, my conclusion is, if God respects our free will, we should respect other people's lifestyle decisions, even if they don't mold into the christian idea. We should respect people no matter what religion/race/sexuality they are, but always show them the path that God wants when they want to choose to go down that road.

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You can absolutely be gay and Christian. If we examine the teachings of Christ, which compose the core of Christianity, we see no reference to sexuality at all.

The only direct mention of homosexuality in the Bible is from the Old Testament book of Leviticus, which says that a man should not lie with another man as he lies with a woman. This must be taken in context... it is a warning for men not to make use of the services of male temple slaves, nothing else. Furthermore, the book of Leviticus was written as a code of living for members of the Tribe of Levi. If you aren't a member of that tribe, then the rules from Leviticus don't apply to you anyways.

We come to the New Testament and see that Paul mentions homosexual acts in his letter to the Romans. In this letter he is referring back to the book of Leviticus, as at that time the teachings of Christ had not been compiled into one volume. Essentially, the only Bible during Paul's time was the Hebrew Bible, the same one Jews had used for centuries, there wasn't a Christian Bible yet, it hadn't been written.

Let's focus on the core teachings of Christ and examine what he said being a good person was all about. Examine the Sermon on the Mount if you wish to live as Christ did.

Blessed are the poor, the meek, the sad, the hungry, the persecuted, the peaceful, the pure.

Woe to the rich, the gluttonous, the jovial, the boastful.

Don't hold a grudge.

Don't swear.

Turn the other cheek.

Be generous.

Love your enemy.

Do right because it IS right, not to gain favor with men.

Worship in secret, for God lives in secret.

Pray simply.

Don't store up earthly wealth. For where your treasure is your heart is also.

Serve God, not man.

Don't be worrisome.

Judge not, for you will be judged and the measure you give will be the measure you get.

Don't be wasteful.

Beware false teachers, by their works you will know them.

Heed these words and you will indeed be thought wise.

Nowhere in there do I see any mention of sexuality.

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Being a bisexual sissy that is both Christian and not a proponent of gay marriage... yeah I tend to make everyone unhappy on this subject.

I get a lot of flack for the above at times, to be clear, I'm not an opponent to gay marriage either...

I do believe that Paul's (and in turn, Leviticus's) notions on homosexuality were, for the most part valid. God (in terms of Christianity) probably doesn't think homosexuality is the most productive behavior on the planet. The exact language can be translated in a few ways, but they all tally up the same.

I interpret it to underscore the sliding scale of humanity and sexuality; if it is a choice for you, lean towards heterosexuality, but don't kill yourself over it either.

This is why I think the millions wasted on stuff like Prop 8 (on both sides) should have gone to much more productive efforts, like feeding starving people. I think God is much more unhappy that lives could have been saved with that cash.

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