Luv'S Size 7 & 8

[Kari]

I heard this from a unreliable source so IDK if there's any truth to it.

But I heard Luvs is coming out with sizes 7 & 8 to compete with Pull Ups & Goodnites.

They are still going to call them diapers,

But sell them as a bridge between diapers and potty trained.

Any body else know more about this possibility?

[wetatnight]

I hadn't heard that.

it sounds to good to be true.

where did your source see or hear this?

[drynot]

Wow....sized eight diapers!! I sure wish they had them around when I was a little guy.

[Angela Bauer]

Let us thing about the situation of baby disposables in Size 7 and even larger.

In early 2007 the Pampers Division of P&G started to advertise their then-new Size 7 Cruisers. To manufacture those P&G had to design a whole new approach to diaper making machines. The previous generation of high speed sophisticated baby diaper machines maxed out at standard Size 6. Inside sources informed trusted consultants that the new generation of machine could actually make diapers wider and longer than Size 7. Those actually are the same width as Size 6 and use the same absorbent core, but the outer shell is 30mm longer.

To put the market condition into perspective, remember that KCWW started making a real success of their Pull-Ups disposable training pants. P&G had designed Easy-Ups but ran into the same production problems as had KCWW. In late 2004 according to consultants KCWW and P&G were seriously considering a marketing approach in which larger sizes of baby disposables would be marketed on the basis that older wetters could at least release a tab so they could slide their diaper down to use the potty as easily as they could do so with pull-on trainers.

Apparently there was no solid market research showing parents wanted kids taking off their diapers. The idea of trying to sell the concept was a work-around to the pull-up production difficulties.

While one R&D team at P&G was enlarging the standard diaper making machines to produce Size 7 and bigger, a different R&D group was re-thinking pull-on manufacturing. That effort lagged behind the bigger diaper machine by 12-18 months. Consultants have told me that KCWW also did some R&D on a larger diaper machine, but decided to hold off. Instead they knew they could put smaller tooling on adult diaper machines. Apparently they did that to make prototype Huggies larger than Size 6 and with wider tabs. KCWW R&D people solved the Pull-Up production problems and used that same approach to increasing GoodNites production efficiency.

So P&G hit the market with an expensive advertising effort to launch Size 7 Cruisers. Very soon retailers were reducing shelf space for Size 7 because parents never bought those in quantities Pampers executives hoped. Cruisers to fit children as large as 100 pounds were produced in test-market quantity, using the new generation machines. However, with the marketing failure of Size 7, actual test marketing of the Size 8 was halted.

Consultants have told me P&G did ship some of the new generation machines to foreign plants where Pampers are made both for the USA and other areas. In those plants various other brands are made. Probably some brands selling larger baby-style diapers are made in the same factories as Pampers.

LUVs are also a P&G brand. Chances are good that in some situations LUVs and Pampers are actually made in the same factories, on the same machines, perhaps with different tooling and certainly different components. It would only take an experienced crew a few hours to switch a machine from one brand to another and much less time to switch from one size to another. The complication is that decorated baby diapers need unique printed outer layer material. For example, although the absorbent core of Size 5, Size 6 and Size 7 is identical and is made from the same components, beside re-setting the length of the outer layer, the crew has to thread-up different outer layer, which is more difficult than you might think.

There are differences between the components of LUVs and Pampers and Baby Dry. P&G would need to order outer layer with longer and maybe wider printing for Size 8. Possibly the absorbent core is also larger, but switching those die sets is not difficult. They do so routinely going from Size 3 to Size 4 and to Size 5 & 6.

What I find hard to understand is what has changed in the market research? Up to now word leaks out every time any diaper manufacturer test markets anything. Has anyone been told about larger LUVs? Perhaps what we have is a new test marketing trying to sell as fresh the concept of larger disposables which did not work in 2007. It has been over 5 years. A new generation might been in charge of diaper test marketing at P&G. It should be very interesting to see how KCWW responds.

[Dirty Diaper/Maxipad Lover]

I'd want to hear this from a more reliable source before I put any real faith into it, but I could certainly see this happening. Sources with questionable reputations have also suggested that KCWW might either introduce Huggies in sizes larger then 6, or introduce a new product in the GoodNites line that would be more like a traditional diaper instead of a pull on. Equally questionable sources have claimed that P&G was considering the same concept for the Pampers line--both sources were linked to on DD at one point in December, but I forget what thread they were in.

What I find hard to understand is what has changed in the market research? Up to now word leaks out every time any diaper manufacturer test markets anything. Has anyone been told about larger LUVs? Perhaps what we have is a new test marketing trying to sell as fresh the concept of larger disposables which did not work in 2007. It has been over 5 years. A new generation might been in charge of diaper test marketing at P&G. It should be very interesting to see how KCWW responds.

Full disclosure: The following is my own speculation. Let's assume for the moment that this source is accurate--if it's not this question becomes a moot point. There is actually a lot that could have changed in the market research.

The first thing that could have changed is simply time. Five years is a long time in the world of disposable diapers. Trends change over time, and this could be an example of that.

The consumers (parents) could be what's changed since 2007. The people buying diapers 5 years ago probably aren't the same people buying them today, and there are probably at least some new consumers who may have a different attitude about a certain type of product.

The economy has changed since 2007. 2007 was at the height of the housing bubble that collapsed a year later. If there's a noticeable difference between pull ons and traditional diapers for consumers it might make sense to test market larger traditional diapers.

Obesity in children has risen since 2007. It's quite possible that there are larger children who are too "round" to fit into smaller diapers. People may not want to acknowledge this, but it would create a market that didn't previously exist.

Also, it's possible that parents attitudes changed once they actually saw Pampers Size 7. You kind of said this yourself Angela but Pampers Size 7 were really just "Pampers Size 6 Big & Tall." Maybe parents wanted a legitmatley larger or more absorbant size 7 diaper. Maybe they liked Pampers Size 7 but didn't like the price--it's no secret that Pampers are P&G's premium line, and it's no secret that Luvs has become their economy line. It could also be any combination of anything mentioned above.

Things change. In 2001 KCWW released a product in the USA that they called "Huggies Convertibles." These were diapers that went on like training pants and could be removed like training pants--they sold poorly and were quickly discontinued. Australia had no problem selling their version of "Huggies Convertibles" and the product was a success there. 10 years later in 2011 KCWW gave the concept another try in the United States. The end result was Huggies Little Movers "Slip-On" diapers and those seem to be selling quite well--they've already been on shelves longer then the "Convertibles" were. It's entirely possible that the market for a size 7 and size 8 diaper has changed.

Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if KCWW also had product concepts ready in case their market research changed as well. The real question to me would be what product line these diapers would be sold under. KCWW could brand them as Huggies and treat them as "real" Size 7 and Size 8 baby diapers, or they could brand them as GoodNites and treat them as an alternative to the pull on style. I think their response will be based on what P&G releases though. If these are meant to be aimed at competing with Pull-Ups and GoodNites I think that KCWW will respond by releasing something under the GoodNites brand. Of course, if KCWW has market research that matches P&G's I could see them trying to get a larger diaper to market before P&G's Size 7 and Size 8 Luvs.

Also, I should note that several major online retailers list Pampers S/M UnderJams as "Size 7" and Pampers L/XL UnderJams as "Size 8" already. If P&G pushed this sizing system, then I really could believe that these Luvs are a real possibility. If that's the case, I fully expect that KCWW's "Size 7" and "Size 8" will be sold under the GoodNites Brand instead of the Huggies Brand. The release of any larger diaper--either the GoodNites mentioned in December or the Luvs mentioned here--would certainly add credibility to the claim of the other major diaper manufacturer also working on a larger diaper.

[DiaperPony]

This may be one of those impossible-to-answer questions, but if adult diapers (say medium and large) were given baby diaper size numbers, any idea what they might be?

[Repaid1]

This may be one of those impossible-to-answer questions, but if adult diapers (say medium and large) were given baby diaper size numbers, any idea what they might be?

Well All I know is I wear adult small, so I am in the newborn section and there about if sized accordingly....and I am okay with that!!!

[drynot]

This may be one of those impossible-to-answer questions, but if adult diapers (say medium and large) were given baby diaper size numbers, any idea what they might be?

Mine would be around 30

[Honeywell6180]

I have serious doubts that a "size 8" Pampers or Luvs will ever exist. The current trend for Under Jams and Goodnites is towards the smaller sizing, and I see the diapers as being no exception. At least for now, Pampers Cruiser 7's remain on the market and I was told by a P&G representative that they'll remain that way as long as they sell. The market for them is extremely small, however, and only ONE store in my area carrys them, and then you have to buy a case of 88. They aren't even marketed, in fact, and you have to know what you are looking for when you go find them. Their primary aim, is towards families with children who have severe disabilities, yet are too small to fit in a small sized adult brief. Think: A 4 year old, non-verbal with severe cognitive problems who won't potty train.

I will go on further: Now that Depend has their Real Fit and Silhouette products, any form of tabbed protection from the big manufacturers will be eliminated in time. This is evidenced by the disappearance of tabbed Depends from most national chain shelves, only to be replaced with feminine pads and lady's underwear (in Grampa colors, as well as for Grandma). Also: I would keep a vigil on the market for a smaller sized Depend Real Fit and Silhouette, complete with the lack of features found in Goodnites, to replace the L/XL Goodnites, with the small sized Goodnites reverting to the Huggies Pull-Ups line.

Now, I know how so many folks here have a dislike for ABUniverse (mostly due to the Star-BMX debacle). But they and Bambino will be the only vendors left who will carry anything that resembles a diaper with graphics. Otherwise, the trend will continue towards cloth-like Abenas and Tenas for caregivers and their bed-ridden loved ones.

Sorry, people. But the diaper stigma just will not go away, not in our lifetimes. Not in your children's lifetimes, nor in your grand-children's lifetimes. Just remember: John Q Public strongly feels that "DIAPERS ARE FOR BABIES". Keep the medical web sites in your bookmarks, because you will NEED them!

And one last remark: IF there is EVER a technology, a form of electronic technology or implant available even, a pill, or some form of needle cocktail for that matter that would make incontinent people continent, then it would be wise to expect any and ALL adult incontinent products to be pulled from the market.

[Nat]

A size 8 just came out in the UK this month. 

[mike indiapers]

This may be in response to the trend for parents in the UK waiting longer to potty train their children.  See the attached article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4649006/Britain-faces-potty-training-crisis.html

[AbabeBill]

I wonder? If there were truly a larger sized, or sizes of child diapers to be produced, if they could be embraced by parents. It is, a sort of counterproductive concept, parents on one hand, want a larger sized diaper for older wetters. But, they are also afraid of a thicker, (fatter), more bulky diaper for an older toddler, or small child. I don’t believe, parents are willing to accept a more bulky looking diaper for a child. And let’s not forget, they don’t want to pay extra for the privilege, of having their child clothed, in such a highly visible bulky diaper. “Wow, you still have that kid in diapers! And boy, are they big!” Just to much of an embarrassment for a parent. I think, there is a notion, that it has to be stylish, and stealthy, ahead of function. I believe, this another reason why, pull up type pants, no matter how good, or effective, are so popular.