About Spelling And Grammer

[ForbiddenFruit]

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Interrobang

It's...beautiful...how long would you think until it becomes standard?

[Leilin]

It's...beautiful...how long would you think until it becomes standard?

Honestly? I doubt it will, but say it out loud. "Interrobang!" It's just fun to say.

[ForbiddenFruit]

However, if you use an interrobang, you can't have a choice between '?!' or '!?'. Which may make quite the difference.

[robert_dl]

whats the big deal wif grammer or punchtoin cant peoples still no whats bein said ?!

Seriously though, people need to have more empathy with others posts. Not all posters will speak or spell the same as you, some posters may even be foreign & posting via translation software.

I have noticed a moderate amount of grammar naziism, and it does spoil some posts.

The internet is a global community, if you don't like it's grammar, then bad luck for you.

[Leilin]

Again, I only really think it's an issue when it's plainly obvious that absolutely no thought went into the post. Your first line, parody as it was, Robert, was significantly more understandable than some of the things that have been posted here.

Once again, nobody is demanding perfection, just a modicum of respect for the people who you are speaking with. Going into a well thought discussion and basically going...

I leik dippers cause I can poopie in tem an rub m lil wewe al neit.

... but longer is incredibly rude, not to mention something that spending more time on your post, no matter who you are, or at the very least thinking before you type, (or not posting with one hand while participating in... other activities) can cure. Most of the non-English speaking members of this board, in my experience, actually put a decent amount of effort into their posts.

Of course, nobody in here is talking about any sort of mandate, either. This is just what we'd like to see happening to make the forum a more pleasant place.

[sarah_ab]

heheh a "sun lazer"

I demand

ONE

MILLION

DOLLARS!

[rosalie.bent]

As well as being a writer, I am also a voracious reader. The real clue to becoming a competent writer is reading. After all, we learn to do pretty much everything else in life by observing others and seeking to emulate them. So why is it that so many internet denizens struggle with the real basics of writing? I know that grammar is no longer taught the way it should be and that some have suffered through the idiotic educational period of time when correct spelling was 'optional', but so what? Is it that big an ask to expect people to grow beyond what they learned (or not) at High School? Was the last skill you acquired thrown at you by a disinterested teacher 10 years ago?

In chat rooms and rapid fire communication venues, spelling and grammar can become a bit ordinary at times and understandably so, but this is not one of those places. It is a forum. I can understand spelling mistakes and typos. I can accept that some people have better education and that some are brighter than others. But this is a written medium. There is no excuse for the grossly substandard messes that some people contribute. When there are spell checkers and grammar checkers abounding, there are fewer and fewer excuses for posts that are almost unreadable.

The OP was understandable, but torturous. Some are a lot worse, but most are much better. If you want to communicate effectively in a particular forum and wish to garner respect and understanding then the least you can do is to improve the level of your writing.

If your writing is grossly substandard, almost unintelligible and you cannot even spell 'diaper' correctly in a diaper forum, then expect to be ignored or mocked. We deserve better than that.

[sarah_ab]

ggg

[Leilin]

I've been seeing that all over Facebook. Adorable.

[wetman]

Leilin, two things, first that language is a concept and there are many different ones in the world, and many many many more dialects of every one of them, so it is impossible to "disrespect" it. Second, the artist is the writer, the reader taking a dump on it is the grammar nazi.

...

Kitten, I see that you have studied art, literature and linguistics and must bow before your knowledge.

Thank you for showing me the light.

...--- shaking my head in disbelief ---...

So, as it's art, it will be acceptable if I write like

t hl s feo m _new on . Ard bon't tako a dump no it, nezis.

I^Isert.

Now, seriously (even if I get a warning for that):

BULLSHIT, Kitten.

[KittenAB]

I see that you have studied literature and linguistics and must bow before your knowledge.

Thank you for showing me the light.

...--- shaking my head in disbelief ---...

You realize how many non-English languages you disrespect on a daily basis? Yeah, so ... English is somehow godly now?

[wetman]

You realize how many non-English languages you disrespect on a daily basis? Yeah, so ... English is somehow godly now?

So, jetzt hör' mal gut zu, Du kleines Rotzbalg. Wenn ich hier irgendwelche Sprachen missachte, dann ist das sicherlich nicht in Deiner Gehaltsklasse, mich zu kritisieren. Englisch ist sicherlich nicht die Sprache Aller, und göttlich ist es auch nicht. Und ich bin, im Gegensatz zu Dir, durchaus in der Lage auch anders zu kommunizieren. Mit korrekter Grammatik und Rechtschreibung.

Alles in allem: Halt einfach mal die Klappe, wenn Du nichts Vernünftiges beizutragen hast.

[Bettypooh]

....this is a written medium. There is no excuse for the grossly substandard messes that some people contribute. When there are spell checkers and grammar checkers abounding, there are fewer and fewer excuses for posts that are almost unreadable.....

I'm picking this response to respond to because it says what I feel rather succinctly I totally agree here. But in my posts you wil find misspelling and grammmar errors becuase I am not using spell-check right now, and for a reason. The spellchecker in Firefox is an intrusive program that goes beyond my comfort level of privacy concerns. Otherwise I like Firefox and will continue to use it. I had an easier go of it when there was a spellchecker onsite here. It went away during some "upgrade". The quotes around that word are used to point out how facetious that concept is, when most of us seem to agree that spellcheckers are good; so to lose one is not an "upgrade" but rather the opposite

....If you want to communicate effectively in a particular forum and wish to garner respect and understanding then the least you can do is to improve the level of your writing.

If your writing is grossly substandard, almost unintelligible and you cannot even spell 'diaper' correctly in a diaper forum, then expect to be ignored or mocked. We deserve better than that.

Especially the last sentence. (I do know the preceding sentence is grammatically incorrect, but I did it anyway- so there!) I am the Queen of the run-on sentence. I've already made about twenty corrections in what little I've written here so far and I know I've missed something. I flat-out refuse to use perfect grammar because it is not my style Yet I pride myself on my writing- even with all my faults. It is a style I developed which I feel projects my intended mesage best, and is easily readable. That is why I haven't been attacked by the 'Grammar Nazis'

I think to sum up what had been an interesting thread is just that- Grammatically correct or not, spelled perfectly or not, make your posts as easily readable as you can. Put some effort into them to acheive that. Respect us by doing that even if you don't like doing it- this is a community and not just a soapbox for anyone's shouting out whatever they want to. If you will not give us the respect we've earned by trying to do that for you, then you will get no respect when you post what we, as a whiole, consider to be garbage here.

Bettypooh

[ForbiddenFruit]

You realize how many non-English languages you disrespect on a daily basis? Yeah, so ... English is somehow godly now?

It's the language used on this forum, so yes, as long as you are here and talking openly, it is. The origin of words counts for nothing, you're here to respect the conventions of today.

[wetman]

...

Yet I pride myself on my writing- even with all my faults. It is a style I developed which I feel projects my intended mesage best, and is easily readable. That is why I haven't been attacked by the 'Grammar Nazis'

...

...

Grammatically correct or not, spelled perfectly or not, make your posts as easily readable as you can.

...

That's exactly it. No one will attack your writing if it is understandable, and if a sentence is 'creatively un-grammatical' to represent the opinion of the writer better, well, just the more credit to them for it! But if you write in a 'could not care less' way, you should expect criticism.

########################################################################################################

No one thinks bad of paralysed people who try to walk. These people deserve respect for trying. But if these people insist that they must be included in the football world cup, they will make fools of themselves. And spoil the game. This is a forum, its like a team sport. If someone wants to play in this team, then she or he should be up to the standard. The alternative is a 'sport' that does not involve a team; make your own website with as many spelling or grammar mistakes as you like. There you will set your own personal benchmark and nobody can fault you for anything.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

Even if you do not pride yourself on your writing, the point is making sure people know what the point is. Now I went out of my way to make sure that I narrow-banded my remarks to Brits, Yanks and other native English speakders. I saw plenty of CLAIMS of grammar naziism but no examples given by those making the claims. It looks to me like the old case of calling anyone with some modicum of standards "anal retentive" by the self-absorbed chaoticists. That Dodge is so old it has fins. I too, have studied art, literature and linguistics; as well as philosophy and psychology (of which linguistics is part). One of the things you learn is the word "context".

[robert_dl]

Even if you do not pride yourself on your writing, the point is making sure people know what the point is. Now I went out of my way to make sure that I narrow-banded my remarks to Brits, Yanks and other native English speakders. I saw plenty of CLAIMS of grammar naziism but no examples given by those making the claims. It looks to me like the old case of calling anyone with some modicum of standards "anal retentive" by the self-absorbed chaoticists. That Dodge is so old it has fins. I too, have studied art, literature and linguistics; as well as philosophy and psychology (of which linguistics is part). One of the things you learn is the word "context".

Try a board search for 'grammar' & you will see quite a few posts ruined by the 'grammar nazis' !

I find it extremely annoying when somebody posts something that's not grammatically correct, and instead of sensible replies there are posts correcting the grammar! Why do so many posts have to be hijacked (and ruined) by those who lack the intellect to decipher / interpret what is being said?

I think the following illustrates the fact we ALL have the ability to decipher seemingly illegible texts. Which reinforces my opinion that 'grammar nazis' only point out mistakes to either; (a.) make themselves feel / appear more intelligent, (b.) try to force others to conform to their ideals, or (c.) because they're assholes :

7H15 M3554G3

53RV35 7O PR0V3

H0W 0UR M1ND5 C4N

D0 4M4Z1NG 7H1NG5!

1MPR3551V3 7H1NG5!

1N 7H3 B3G1NN1NG

17 WA5 H4RD BU7

N0W, 0N 7H15 LIN3

Y0UR M1ND 1S

R34D1NG 17

4U70M471C4LLY

W17H 0U7 3V3N

7H1NK1NG 4B0U7 17,

B3 PROUD! 0NLY

C3R741N P30PL3 C4N

R3AD 7H15.

PL3453 F0RW4RD 1F

U C4N R34D 7H15.

[Leilin]

I think the following illustrates the fact we ALL have the ability to decipher seemingly illegible texts. Which reinforces my opinion that 'grammar nazis' only point out mistakes to either; (a.) make themselves feel / appear more intelligent, (b.) try to force others to conform to their ideals, or (c.) because they're assholes :

I think that it illustrates that some people go to way too much effort to make their posts barely understandable. If you can do THAT much to make your posts a pain in the patootie to read, you can go through a fraction of that much effort to make your posts readable.

This has nothing to do with stifling creativity. This board is a forum primarily for communication, not to stretch the boundaries of language.

Furthermore, this again makes the false assumption that most of the guilty parties could give two craps less that other people can understand what they read.

[robert_dl]

If you find something too hard to read, then why would you read it and complain? Why not just disregard it and move on?

I don't think anyone intentionally makes their posts hard to read. Perhaps they are so excited to share a new idea or feeling, their minds simply work faster than their fingers can.

My above post is simply to point out the fact that your mind should fill in the blanks and make illegible texts readable.

All I'm trying to say is this - if you don't like / can't understand someones grammar, then that's YOUR problem. You don't need to make the poster feel bad, or ruin a thread correcting them.

[Leilin]

If you find something too hard to read, then why would you read it and complain? Why not just disregard it and move on?

I don't think anyone intentionally makes their posts hard to read. Perhaps they are so excited to share a new idea or feeling, their minds simply work faster than their fingers can.

My above post is simply to point out the fact that your mind should fill in the blanks and make illegible texts readable.

All I'm trying to say is this - if you don't like / can't understand someones grammar, then that's YOUR problem. You don't need to make the poster feel bad, or ruin a thread correcting them.

You must be new here. Most of the people doing this are polluting the threads that OTHERS begin by doing so, with the exception of a few very well documented people who troll by doing it.

The only exception to this is stories, where many people will give constructive criticism involving grammar, when it merits.

[sarah_ab]

7H15 M3554G3

53RV35 7O PR0V3

H0W 0UR M1ND5 C4N

D0 4M4Z1NG 7H1NG5!

1MPR3551V3 7H1NG5!

1N 7H3 B3G1NN1NG

17 WA5 H4RD BU7

N0W, 0N 7H15 LIN3

Y0UR M1ND 1S

R34D1NG 17

4U70M471C4LLY

W17H 0U7 3V3N

7H1NK1NG 4B0U7 17,

B3 PROUD! 0NLY

C3R741N P30PL3 C4N

R3AD 7H15.

PL3453 F0RW4RD 1F

U C4N R34D 7H15.

of course for some of us with certain learning disabilities this just makes us dizzy!

Clearly i'm not huge about perfect spelling and/or grammar, i'm in the 'just make it readible to the average person' camp.... add some spaces instead of a giant wall of text... a type here or there or for example the I instead of A in the word readable .... a legit mistake.. but still easily understood....

however, whatever taht is above...i can't udnerstnad it at all... but i'm guessing i'm in the minority... but that sort of typing is just not ok... i mean i've been texting for years and never texted with numbers for letters....

[Leilin]

however, whatever taht is above...i can't udnerstnad it at all... but i'm guessing i'm in the minority... but that sort of typing is just not ok... i mean i've been texting for years and never texted with numbers for letters....

It's a twist on a fake meme that mostly illiterate forum posters parrot every once in a while to illustrate that they are in fact just being individual, or something.

All I'm trying to say is this - if you don't like / can't understand someones grammar, then that's YOUR problem. You don't need to make the poster feel bad, or ruin a thread correcting them.

Again, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the posts that we're talking about, because if you were you wouldn't be referring to the tripe that gets posted as any sort of "grammar." The onus is not on the people who are even remotely familiar with proper English if a post is completely inattentive to the point where it is barely readable by anybody who has English proficiency beyond baby talk (and I mean real baby talk).

[robert_dl]

You must be new here. Most of the people doing this are polluting the threads that OTHERS begin by doing so, with the exception of a few very well documented people who troll by doing it.

The only exception to this is stories, where many people will give constructive criticism involving grammar, when it merits.

Actually Leilin, I have been a member for about seven years!

I don't disagree with your post at all. I feel exactly the same way, what annoys me is the slandering for poor grammar that occurs on an original post.

Replies to an established thread with grammar so poor it makes your eyes bleed, and retracts from the meaning is annoying.

My point is that when an original post that contains poor grammar occurs, it shouldn't be slandered for risk of the post dying.

[Leilin]

I think we see more or less eye to eye, then, Robert, with the exception of stories and interactive posts such as RP where your ability to be effective in the forum is contingent on your ability to communicate.

And trolls. People who do it on purpose deserve to be berated.

[robert_dl]

I feel I should divulge my real reasons for posting so vehemently in this thread;

I am what you may classify as a 'lurker', I seldom post stories about my diapered life (mainly because it's something I can rarely indulge in). It is for this reason I 'lurk' and enjoy reading the stories of others.

I have this idea / belief that new users who are extremely eager to share their stories, and may mince their grammar posting the stories, may be silenced by grammar nazis. Wether or not this is true, I don't really know - I don't have the time to research it and draw a conclusion.

I just feel the need to protect those (who I don't even know exist) from feeling afraid to bash out their stories and post them.

My sincere apologies to anyone whom I may have offended, my objective is and will always be the open communication of all members - regardless of grammatical prowess !

BTW - I edited this post because I noticed grammar errors of my own (I can type faster than I can think / read)