Close To Incontinence With A Catheter

[shinjie]

A suggestion that probably won't work; How about on the balloon end, 3 inches down, where your hole is cut, put a dab of super glue on the inside and pinch the remaining cath length so the inflation tube still works without residual urine?

[Bettypooh]

A suggestion that probably won't work; How about on the balloon end, 3 inches down, where your hole is cut, put a dab of super glue on the inside and pinch the remaining cath length so the inflation tube still works without residual urine?

DANGER! Superglue is cyanoacrylate; please note that the 'cyano" part addresses a cyanide content. The medical grade super-glue is safe for topical (outside body) use but the usual store-bought stuff isn't, and I don't think any is yet approved for internal use. Cyanide is a very potent poison and I don't want to see anyone here make the mistake of doing that to themselves Perhaps the concept is OK; just don't use superglue for this purpose.

Bettypooh

[Bettypooh]

Well, this is accurate, but not precise... You're claim, while correct on certain points, is not entirely true.

For more information, please research cyano chemicals, cyanoacrilates, and chemicals such as sodium cynanide or potassium cynanide (which are slats, not polymers).

A good starting point is Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....i/Cyanoacrylate

Cheers.

I based my statement on several well-researched medical cases, and of warnings given to the medical community from the manufacturers of these products. I know of no instance where the proposed kind of usage had even been remotely approached or researched. If anyone knows of an adhesive safe to use in this scenario I hope they will speak up. Just don't use super-glue!

Bettypooh

[wetman]

Right, superglue, krazyglue, cyanoacrylate is a bad idea in this application, I think, for more than one reason: it does not always set immediately and thereby might get to places unintended, it sets hard and so would not follow the catheter's flexations, and as it sets hard, might cause bad irritation if any flakes come loose. As the urethra is not an absorbing membrane like, for example, the intestines, I think the toxicity issue is not really one; after setting, cyanoacrylate is mostly inert, and it's not made of "cyanide" anyway. There's a cyano-group in there, but that only means that it has a C=N somewhere in the formula.

<humoristic hyperbole>

I've just had a look on a cheap 1kg plastic container of table salt bought at Asda, the anti-caking-agent in there is sodium ferrocyanide. As everybody knows Americans kill people in gas chambers by dropping cyanide into some acid which then releases deadly gas. I think this is an American (Asda is Walmart after all) scheme to kill most of the British population next Friday (well, Rebecca B. didn't quite do it...), when they lash their cod'n'chips with copious amounts of salt and vinegar.

</humoristic hyperbole>

Superglue is irritating, not necessarily downright a poison. Bettypooh, I'm not dissing your post or the warning, just trying to clear up a bit so that there's less 'knee-jerk-panic' from the genital pubic general public.

I think I should have never mentioned the infection risk due to the 'dead-end' bit of the catheter, I have resolved the issue nicely for myself: it just isn't one.

If you flush the catheter before insertion with Octenisept, or dab a minute amount of Betadine into the downward end at the hole, I think nothing will ever happen. The urine is more or less clean until it gets exposed, and it doesn't get exposed. Also, as the end of the catheter is blocked, there's a volume of air in there and that will prevent entry of liquid in most cases anyway.

So, don't worry too much everyone, and leave the superglue out of your plumbing, for whatever reason.

[Bobbyca]

I've been bothered by the rough edges around the hole in the catheter. I looked for and found a water soluble latex product at my local fabric store, called Unique Liquid Stitch. I applied just enough to cover the cut edge of the hole and let dry thoroughly overnight. It's increased the comfort significantly, even after a few hours.

[wetman]

...

water soluble latex

...

Sounds cool, first off, but I'm going to grill you now :

Where's your research behind this? Do please post it!

I take it that you have tried for

• mechanical stability

• adhesion

• solubility after setting/curing

• response, if any, to common sterilising methods

before your first field test?

A .pdf of the paper would be nice*.

*Don't take me too serious, OK?

[wetman]

A suggestion that probably won't work; How about on the balloon end, 3 inches down, where your hole is cut, put a dab of super glue on the inside and pinch the remaining cath length so the inflation tube still works without residual urine?

shinjie, I've just thought about the mechanical effects of your proposition and I think its not such a good idea after all: pinching the catheter shut will alter the cross section from a circle to an oval, which will make the hole's edges stick out and thereby decrease comfort in the urethra dramatically, especially during insertion. This sticking out will, most likely, happen with in-plane pinching as well as pinching at right angles to the hole.

Glueing and pinching away from the hole (towards the distal end, the bit with the valve) would again create a waste space and be no different to no glue.

Just my humble opinion, and I think, not necessary after all anyway...

[Baby Brian]

It's been a while since the last post. Are there any new updated to the modified catheter? Has anyone really gotten it to work for more than a day or two without too much irritation?

[Lexi13]

I read some one say soaking the tools in alcohol wont disinfect them? is this true? What other options are there to disinfect your tools? I have a multi diameter rotating leather punch and want to play safe! Boiling some one said but how do i get it from the kitchen to a place to use it with out picking up infectious material? I've done caths in the past but was kinda let down because like people said it has no sensation just the end result. Any ideas for disinfecting?

[wetman]

Look up 'Milton', it's a cold sterilising liquid for baby bottles and such. Basically bleach.

[Lexi13]

I'm having a hard time finding a store that sells milton sterilizer? any ideas? I tried looking up alcohol as a sterilizer and said that on skin it evaporates to quick to work 100% but I plan on submerging the tool in the alcohol for 5 mins or so. Any ideas if this will lead to a uti? OR where to buy milton brand bottle sterilizer? I tried walmart and Babies r us and they didnt have it.

[Bettypooh]

FWIW- My electrologist said a 70% solution of alcohol (the usual isopropyl or rubbing alcohol) was the most effective sterilizer, because higher percentages caused some germs to create a shell to protect them against it, but that level didn't cause that reaction Her usual tools were autoclaved and the alcohol was for the skin and for touch-up after a tool touched the skin. Anything more dirty than that and she got another sterile tool. In 2 1/2 years with her I never got an infection, while several friends using other electrologists did- and they weren't pleasant being deep in the skin

I don't think anyone here has an autoclave handy (and it would melt rubber or plastics anyway) but her alcohol comment was worth passing on.

Bettypooh

[wetman]

OK, IPA (isopropylalcohol) is not the best steriliser* ever, although it does quite a lot. The 72% (I think it was) + 28% clean water is most effective for two reasons: 1.) it does not evaporate so fast and 2.) it diffuses into the cell much better than 100%, as Bettypooh already mentioned (or something similar).

Most spores (the ones of Clostridium difficile, aka c.diff, which gives you a really, really bad diarrhea) are resistant to alcohols including Isopropanol and some viruses like Hepatitis will also not die of it.

Bleach (like Milton, [Lexi, I guess you live in the US, as the stuff is really widely availabe in the UK. Do ask for cold sterilising fluid at a pharmacy, quote 'sodium hypochlorite' in a medical grade quality]) is a bit more effective, but as it's corrosive, you can't use high concentrations on all materials.

Iodine (as PVP-I) is pretty good, so is chlorhexidine (in some throat tablets and mouthwash) and octenidine (Sold under the brand name Octenisept in Europe. A non-stinging wound wash, ideal for kids.). Malic acid (the super-sour in super-sour confectionery) is also quite a killer, but then so is vinegar (the clear, 25% essence stuff). Hydrogen peroxide ('Oxygen bleach') is quite a hero, but very agressive. Formaldehyde is overrated (and poisonous, eek).

Octenisept is ok on catheters, of my own experience. The other chemicals I can't speak for, especially as the preparations can contain all kinds of 'helper' agents.

As far as I know there is no single, non toxic way of actually sterilising, short of 'glowing out' the object like they used to do with knifes. If you want to play with your blowtorch a bit, the revolver punch will be just good for one hole after that, because the steel of the cutting tube will lose all its hardness.

You can grab your hole punch and stick it into a pressure cooker for an hour. It's not exactly an autoclave, but close to it. Boiling will do half the job; most spores (think of unhatched bacteria eggs) survive it. I just looked it up: even autoclaving does not kill prions such as Scrapie or BSE (mad cow disease) which can lead to CJD in humans. Not nice, your brain turns slowly into foam rubber, with the same level of intelligence...

I hope you are still reading and not puking violently onto your keyboard, because there's also good news. We don't necessarily need to be sterile, in fact we can't. You pick up all kinds of stuff just by being surrounded by air, mostly in concentrations that our own body defence can deal with. If you aren't HIV-positive or had an organ transplant, you can cope with an amazing amount of 'dirt'. This doesn't mean you don't have to wash your hands any more after you poked through the toilet paper, but one or two bacteria won't kill you.

Clean, very, very clean and disinfected, is good enough.

All this is, as always, only my personal, totally non-committal, opinion and I endorse nothing at all. If you catch something, your fault.

Don't listen to me.

*I think we have to rip this apart a bit. True sterilisation for all infectious matter is extremely hard to achieve. What we usually mean is disinfection.

[Lexi13]

first time I placed the hole 3 inchs'ish from the balloon and it did make me leak a little. I tried a second time at around 9inchs from ballon and I have not stopped leaking since. It's crazy how fast a diaper fills up! Very interesting feeling to not have control. I also used waterproof medical tape to double over the cath and then cut the end off. So much good information here to try! Thanks for the ideas!

[Creepymouse]

even autoclaving does not kill prions such as Scrapie or BSE

Interestingly, prions are misfolded proteins and not alive per se, being the only infectious agents that don't require some form of genetic material. Horrible to think much about, but very interesting little deathtraps. Not much chance of getting them into a catheter by accident, thankfully.

[hg25baby]

WOW I tried that yesterday and it was super fun!!

I also found this video of a guy doing it even better:

http://www.xtube.com/watch.php?v=CyhNo-G864-

[mahleedl]

WOW I tried that yesterday and it was super fun!!

I also found this video of a guy doing it even better:

http://www.xtube.com...p?v=CyhNo-G864-

I have to admit... I'm very intrigued.

I think I'm going to have to do some heavy thinking on how to do that with something approaching aseptic technique, and the idea of losing/breaking that string scares the hell out of me... Things to ponder, but I really like the concept

[Fakename4me]

WOW I tried that yesterday and it was super fun!!

I also found this video of a guy doing it even better:

http://www.xtube.com...p?v=CyhNo-G864-

THAT is over the top just plain crazy.....

[incondl]

Wow, the extremes some people go through to leak without control!

[wetman]

Oh, man.

That was nowhere clean enough. He might get away with it, but not by design; rather by luck.

Too many items involved, insecure fastening of the retrieval string, way too much groping and fiddling.

I wouldn't recommend it.

[mahleedl]

Yeah, and all that manipulation on the bathroom sink surface...

I'm thinking sanitized surface covered by sterile surgical drape, autoclaved tools, sterile sutures, cold sanatizing solution (ie Milton), and a clean working room with minimal airflow...

Even then I'm still more than a little concerned...

[diapertime42]

I've done things simular to that video, but I used fish line instead of string or thread... fishline won't fall apart like some cheap string will. Also, I pierced the end of the cath with a needle and ran the fishline thru it, instead of tying it around the end of the cath. That way it wouldn't come off the cath.

Now having said all that, I've given up using caths... TO DAMN MANY BLADDER INFECTIONS!!

[wetman]

...

TO[sic] DAMN MANY BLADDER INFECTIONS!!

Don't use used fishing line.

[whisko]

as a guy who likes to have a bladder issue now and then, this topic has intrigued me for a while. after a lot of trial and error i decided to find my own solution. i call it my toobie. it looks like this: o-=-============---------O

Big Standard Disclaimer: if you make and use this, you are putting foreign objects in your body because you wanted to try something you learned on a fetish site on tha intarwebz. be safe and smart.

how to make a toobie:

parts list

- spare USB cable (trust me)

- Glide dental floss (strong non-porous Teflon)

- clothes button (preferably with 2 holes)

- utility knife

- lighter

construction:

1. use knife to cut about 9.5" of the middle of the USB cable

2. cut about .5" of insulation off one end, and use that to pull all the wires out of the cable, forming an empty tube

3. put one end in your mouth and blow through the tube to confirm that it is clear

4. use a lighter to melt one end, and while it's hot use your fingers to form it to a smooth point. (if it burns and turns crusty/charred, cut it off and try again)

5. test it for smoothness/leaks using your mouth. (lick your lips, try inserting it and make sure it's smooth, and then try to blow into it - there should be no airflow)

6. use the utility knife to cut two oval holes, not opposite from each other, near the closed end (approximately 1/2" and 3/4" from the end, catheter-style, if you've already seen one)

7. (optional!) use the utility knife to cut a shallow 1/4"-long groove around the entire circumference of the tube after the holes (approximately 1 1/2" from the end, for the inner sphincter to grab onto)

8. use the lighter to slightly melt the two holes and the open end of the tube to make them smoother

9. again check the whole thing for smoothness/flow using your mouth

10. take one of the wires we removed from the cable, melt the end so the end has a plastic knob on it, and cut off the metal wire end. (it's now our floss-pulling tool)

11. feed the wire up and through the top oval hole

12. cut about 28" of dental floss from the spool

13. tie one end of the dental floss to the wire using a double square knot

14. pull the wire slightly out, then feed it through the other oval hole

15. tie the other end of the dental floss to the wire using a double square knot

16. gently pull the wire completely out. (you should now have a tube with two pieces of floss sticking out through the end, still tied to a wire)

17. pull the knob-end of the wire out through the knots (leave the knots there)

18. put the two knot ends through the button

19. tie four new square knots, looping in the existing knots so it can't come loose

20. test the strength of the "retrieval cord". (pulling on the button should pull all the way at the oval holes, and should not come loose)

21. wash/store/use/enjoy your toobie :-)

insertion:

1. put your penis in the bathroom sink

2. wash your penis head, hands, and toobie with soap and water. (i also recommend running some water through the toobie)

3. get your penis into an erect condition

4. urinate a little for lubrication

5, insert the toobie and push it in as far as possible. (once the plastic part is inserted, use your fingers along the underside of your penis to push on the end of it to get it in further)

6, urine should be coming out uncontrollably! (if not, you might need to build a longer toobie and/or retrieval cord. lucky you?)

7. hold toobie in place and urinate completely to flush inside/outside of toobie with urine

8. enjoy!

[Bettypooh]

Just in case someone new to all this comes along....

The techniques given in this entire thread are experimental. You are using them at your own risk should you try them. As a general rule, one should not place any non-medical grade items inside one's body. And as this type of thing goes, one must be very, very clean and sterile as the risk of infection is great if you are not careful- however catheters are used medically with minimal infections when done properly. I would also note that as cheap and available as catheters are, there is no reason to do something as totally risky as the above post advocates.

Bettypooh