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Close To Incontinence With A Catheter

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I've got a Duette 16fr in currently and it is working well. It's silicone so is more stiff, but the double balloon seems to be a key for me. Drainage at night seems to work mostly as expected. I ruined the first one tryign to cut holes by folding it over as suggested, because of the two balloons, there is a tube on either side. I had better luck just cutting where the blue line is. 

At first, I folded it back and put a zip tie on, then trimmed it. This created a hook to keep it outside. This was too long, so I added another fold and that reduced irritation considerably. But as things expand down there, it can be uncomfortable, especially the square end of the zip tie. (for better or worse, it doesn't seem to become erect unaided anymore.) So I found a nylon washer and drilled some extra holes, sanded it smooth and put that on then replaced the zip tie outside of it. Again, I loosened it but tightened it back up again. When things contract, skin wraps around the washer which isn't the most comfortable, but overall it works. Maybe next time I'll get a larger washer. For the most part, the feelings are unusual, perhaps intense, but not necessarily painful. It's gotten better. Occasionally, I'm positioned so it is blocked by the diaper and builds up pressure for a more dramatic/intense flow. Often a shift in position is enough to clear the way.

While I thought spacious diapers/pants would be best, it seems less movement is better, so I use a thick all-in-one diaper at night over my disposable. Been keeping an eye on things, drinking lots of fluids. So far, I think I'm good. Diaper I changed out of earlier was pretty smelly, but my research suggests that urine sitting over 2 hours at body temp can convert. While I have been wearing constantly for years, because I never got so I void early and often, I think it spent less time in the actual diaper and more time inside. Plus, I realized I only drank one glass at work today so I'm flushing with water this evening and I expect it to be fine when I go to bed. 

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On 11/1/2016 at 1:40 AM, abmichael said:

I've got a Duette 16fr in currently and it is working well. It's silicone so is more stiff, but the double balloon seems to be a key for me. Drainage at night seems to work mostly as expected. I ruined the first one tryign to cut holes by folding it over as suggested, because of the two balloons, there is a tube on either side. I had better luck just cutting where the blue line is. 

At first, I folded it back and put a zip tie on, then trimmed it. This created a hook to keep it outside. This was too long, so I added another fold and that reduced irritation considerably. But as things expand down there, it can be uncomfortable, especially the square end of the zip tie. (for better or worse, it doesn't seem to become erect unaided anymore.) So I found a nylon washer and drilled some extra holes, sanded it smooth and put that on then replaced the zip tie outside of it. Again, I loosened it but tightened it back up again. When things contract, skin wraps around the washer which isn't the most comfortable, but overall it works. Maybe next time I'll get a larger washer. For the most part, the feelings are unusual, perhaps intense, but not necessarily painful. It's gotten better. Occasionally, I'm positioned so it is blocked by the diaper and builds up pressure for a more dramatic/intense flow. Often a shift in position is enough to clear the way.

While I thought spacious diapers/pants would be best, it seems less movement is better, so I use a thick all-in-one diaper at night over my disposable. Been keeping an eye on things, drinking lots of fluids. So far, I think I'm good. Diaper I changed out of earlier was pretty smelly, but my research suggests that urine sitting over 2 hours at body temp can convert. While I have been wearing constantly for years, because I never got so I void early and often, I think it spent less time in the actual diaper and more time inside. Plus, I realized I only drank one glass at work today so I'm flushing with water this evening and I expect it to be fine when I go to bed. 

How exactly do you insert a Duette catheter? Like does 1 balloon go inside your bladder and is the other one supposed to be on the other side of the sphincter? Does it cause any pain at all? And do you just leak out like with a regular catheter or do you have to apply some pressure in order to go. It looks like you would have to with the way it looks to me.

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With a Duette catheter, both balloons are in the bladder.  The drainage hole is between the top and bottom balloons.  Theory is instead of the point of a regular catheter possibly poking into the bladder wall you have rounded top balloon touching the bladder wall instead.  Less bladder wall damage, less irritation, less spasms.

I have not used one myself.  Just repeating internet ramblings.  And speaking of internet ramblings...  Anyone seen this?

large.581bf5d616dbd_cathsfoleyvortex30.JPG

 

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Wow that's different. Doesn't look like anything I want to try. Scary looking. 

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Here is a diagram from the Duette website. I don't know if this was the only reason, but I found it quite comfortable. My only issue was at the other end. I had to keep it short so it didn't move around, but appeared to cause a rash where it was in contact. So I have some fabric covered neoprene I plan to make a cushion with that will go between the zip tie clamp and me. I also got some Merino wool felt which is 100% real wool that apparently has natural anti-bacterial properties and retains its properties when wet. So I plan to make some "washers" that go between me and the neoprene. It should let urine flow through and resist bacteria but be removable for washing. Maybe I only need the felt. We'll see... 

Screen Shot 2016-11-09 at 11.08.04 PM.png

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On 10/9/2016 at 2:38 AM, abmichael said:

I've tried foley caths in the past and always had trouble with it moving around and that causing irritation. Silicone seemed a good idea, but since it's more rigid, turned out to be worse. But I recently had the best success to date. I used a hydrogel coated 16F, made three holes 4" from the balloon. Inserted it cleanly, pulled it tight, folded the end over and put a zip tie on, then cut off the rest. This made for very little sticking out and worked well for an evening on the couch watching TV.

While I had never made it through the night in the past due to irritation, I felt this might be the night. But while irritation wasn't an issue, I couldn't get good drainage at night. I mostly sleep on my stomach, but even on my back, I had to push to get flow. I had consumed lots of fluids, so more than once, awoke on my stomach with a series of spasms pushing urine out. It was intense, but also a bit enjoyable. Frustratingly, it didn't seem to amount to a lot of urine, so I wasn't much better off after. 

While I'd like to retain the feeling of going and some amount of fill/void, the thing that bugs me most when not cath'd is when I'm sitting in positions where it's difficult to go. This after more than 10 years 24x7 wearing, where most cases it's easy to go, but other times not. So I want no control, but also no hangups. Some feeling of fullness is ok if it goes on to then drain, but ongoing feeling of fullness is bad, and that's what I ended up with here. 

So I was thinking maybe I need to go to a smaller cath, 14 or 12F but a couple people have mentioned this problem here, that even with the open stent, things don't drain easily at night. But they do with an open Foley don't they? Any ideas? Would a larger balloon help? More holes? Smaller cath? 

I have been using the holey cath for years and pretty much set up my 20fr cath as you do! 4 small holes 4 inches from the balloon/last hole is at 5.5 inches from balloon. I then cut of the funnel end of cath leaving only the the filling port of cath to fill balloon 10cc of water!

When inserting cath I make sure the holes in cath are pointing off to the side//say at 9 oclock that way the cath has a better chance to drain freely//less pressure on cath when sitting so drains freely!!  WORKS FOR ME//20fr with 10cc in balloon//also after cutting off the funnel end of cath you must plug the drain hole so it works the way it's intended to///NO OPEN CATH IN YOUR DIAPER!! ONLY THE FILLING PORT IS THERE IN YOUR DIAPER///WORKS GREAT!

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I've got one in again, only did one hole, I was thinking I should do one on each side, but with the two lines to the two balloons it's risky. At least for the one there is a blue line on the catheter I can use for reference. There are positions where it doesn't seem to drain which is frustrating but also somewhat more realistic in the sense that when I move to a different position there is no stopping it. The first night, I had several instances where the need to go would suddenly arise, followed by going without control which was cool, but that didn't last once things calmed down I guess. 

This time, I left the end long, bent it into a Z shape, but the tie on, and cut it just after the ports. Partly this was so I could adjust it later, but overall it seems more stable this way. The twin balloons seem to keep it from moving inside, and outside seems more stable by having to route it toward the back. When it was short and stubby, it seemed to rub the inside of the diaper more when I walked which was intense. I did put a piece of open cell packing foam over the zip tie and that drastically improved things. No matter how well trimmed, it still has sharp edges without that. 

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I hated the duette Catheter. It made my bladder very angry and felt like I was always full.  It was the first time I ever got spasms that I didn't want.  (sometimes they are fun)  Also the cost is 3 times what I normally pay.   And why do you say 100% Silicon Caths are stiffer ?  Mine most certainly are not !  I buy a blue dover 100% silicone. And when Silicone products warm they get even less stiff.  They are much smoother that latex, and are less irritating.  Sometimes the things I read here sound like Internet myths retold.  Everyone becareful and don't beleive everything your told on the internet...  Some people just like to tell tall tales !!

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Hey guys, I have some problems catherizing, I thought you might help :)

It's become more frequent that I meet resistance while passing my sphincter. Urine flows out but I can't push the catheter all the way to the fork (I don't want to accidently inflate the balloon the in urethra). First time this happened I tried pushing anyway despite the resistance and I felt a sudden pain from the bladder (like as if I had poked it). Today it happened again and I tried pushing it in several times by withdrawing it slightly and pushing in again. Nothing seemed to work. I even pulled it out entirely and inserted it again. Same problem. 

Also, do you guys shower before every catherization or do you just insert it sometimes (with clean hands?). I feel like when I shower, my glans become really dry and inserting the catheter, even with lube becomes really difficult because the catheters pushes the glans "inwards" and increases friction. 

How often do you catheterize yourself? And how long do you usually keep it in? How do you position the catheter when you sleep (if you're a guy)?
I can't have it pointed down at night because of the natural boners occuring during sleep. A boner with the penis in a forced down position with catheter kinda hurts, and I feel like I eventually wake up with the penis in the natural up position anyway. But if you point it up then the catheter can leak outside the diaper.

I personally catherize about every two weeks, and keep it in for max one day (I've read the catheter is fully colonized with bacteria after 2 days). 
I use 18 Fr and 20 Fr (although I regret buying 20 Fr as it is a bit too big, and now I have 9 of them left :P)

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For me, the small 12fr go in like a dream. I certainly don't take them all the way to the fork, just an inch past the point where urine flows, then inflate the balloon. I clean the head with an antiseptic wipe and use sterile tongs and sterile lube. Also I prefer catheters coated with silver salts (Bardex IC) to reduce the infection risks. A week is as long as I will go. For better or for worse, boners are not a problem, prostate was removed a while back.

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On 21-12-2016 at 3:49 AM, dipper said:

Hey guys, I have some problems catherizing, I thought you might help :)

It's become more frequent that I meet resistance while passing my sphincter. Urine flows out but I can't push the catheter all the way to the fork (I don't want to accidently inflate the balloon the in urethra). First time this happened I tried pushing anyway despite the resistance and I felt a sudden pain from the bladder (like as if I had poked it). Today it happened again and I tried pushing it in several times by withdrawing it slightly and pushing in again. Nothing seemed to work. I even pulled it out entirely and inserted it again. Same problem. 

I think the tip of your cath hits the bladder wall at the top. Sometimes the cath will bend allowing the tip to slide alongside the wall, in that case you can push the cath inside until you reach the fork. But in other cases the tip gets stuck in a corner of the bladder wall and will start to hurt if you try to push it further inside. You only have to insert the catheter one inch further after the pee starts coming out. No need to go all the way until reaching the fork.

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Back in the days when I used to install catheters I had the same problem every so now and then. I found that inserting a catheter in an empty bladder proved to be more difficult in comparison to installing a catheter in a full or half full bladder. So once I found that out I had no more issues. Something similar applies for the diameter of the catheter if it is too small it becomes harder to get it in, but that was back in the days I haven’t used on in over six years.

 

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Here is a quick review of my new design.

Start with a 16FR 30 CC cath. While sealed in the packaging tear open the fill end and add 1 1/2 CC of fluid. I've gone mucho and tried 2+ only to find it would go where I wanted it too. Using forceps clamp off the cath (after filling the balloon) about 5" from the tip. Next measure back from the tip about 6 1/2" inches and cut the cath in two. Discarding the long end. Now find something that will slid inside of the fill line without depressing the drain line. So far I have found a piece of telephone wire and the fold back part of a binder clip to fit well. I'm looking for something in the nylon or plastic department so there are no metals. Once you have the fill line plugged take a 12" piece of the 10# braded fishing line and HD sewing needle. Thread the needle and pierce it thru the fill line. this will prevent the plug from sliding out and makes a good attachment point. Next take the screw protector (Lowes Item # 137982 Model # 881038) and make a hole in the bottom. I use my leather punch for this. Slid the screw protector with the new opening in the bottom passing the retrieval line thru  and up and over the cath. So far the business end of the catheter has remained in the original package. Lastly tie something that will not allow the stent to get lost. I use a rubber O ring sized to fit over my shaft. This design has worked remarkable well for me. The only drawback is if you enter the bladder when you really need to pee it will likely force this design right back out. I have used this deign for 48 hours continuous and had to think twice about it being in place. Easy to make,  few tools required. business end stays in the sterile packaging until ready to insert. Not to mention very soft. Recommended one time use.

If you come up with something to plug the fill line please let me know.

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That just sounds like so many things can go wrong !   Take a cath and put a hole in the side away from the balloon fill line. Either by foldinh it over and snipping with scissors, or a razor blade, or a red hot tip of a soldering iron or a heated up coat hanger wire.  But make this hole 4-6 inches below the balloon  while the cath is still in the sterile packaging using extremely clean hands (Washed for 5 minutes, then sanitized for 2 minutes with sanitizer. Then sanitize your dick and insert as normal, inflate as normal.  Then give a slight tug on the cath while sliding your VERY SOFT penis back down the cath towards your body and then Clamp the Cath up near your pee hole.  Careful not to pinch the end of your dick, that really hurts and may leave a mark (Sorry Frank).  Then cut the cath 1/4  - 1/2 inch from the clamp and wrap dental floss around the cath end 3-4 times and then tie it really tight with a REAL knot,  Square knot preferred.  Now if you can find a little cap that will fit over the end of the cut cath (Plastic Screw Caps work well,  Wire Shelving Caps also work well)  or a little heat will also take the edges off the cut cath.  Again,  Don't burn the end of your dick (Sorry again Frank)   Or burn the floss.   Then when you finally unclamp, you dick will resume its normal length and the cath will disappear inside.  Then you can stretch out your dick and cut the extra dental floss off at about 4 inches past your full length.  Tie a know in the end and maybe add a washer or rubber band or whatever to make sure it remains out.  But by now you should be leaking like a 90 yr old man with absolutely no bladder control !!

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On 2016-12-26 at 7:55 PM, Loveable_guy said:

Here is a quick review of my new design.

If you come up with something to plug the fill line please let me know.

New designs are fun.  :D  
LG...  weed trimmer line works well to plug the fill hole, just make sure its round (some is not) .050 (1.3 mm) is close. .045 may work too.

 

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This is long but sort of summarizes what I've learned/experienced so far... 

I initially chose Fr16 size and had mixed success. I cut the hole with scissors, cut in and then out again. Tricky, but worked ok. Didn't leave the best hole. The cath moved around, I thought it was in and out movement, so tried duette which have a second balloon at the end. These were nice and comfortable, but presented different challenges. With dual balloons there are dual fill tubes and cutting between them is hard. I damaged one right away. Next one worked ok. The other issue is they seem more rigid which seems to transfer movement more. I tried using a leather punch as suggested, but it's extremely likely to damage a duette, even practicing on one I had damaged previously, it was still challenging to get right. I got one right and then ruined another. I position it right on the top surface, but it rolls a little so when it goes down it cut through the tube at the bottom. 

I was also trying to do what others had suggested which was to get it in and then fold the end over to crimp it and then secure it with a zip tie. This meant little sticking out, but more directly translated to movement from diaper movement. I first thought looser fitting diapers/pants would be better, but found tighter was best to minimize movement. I had trouble with the duette because being more rigid and having two fill tubes and the drain tube to seal off, even a zip tie wasn't closing them securely. I crimped one but left the end attached and I could watch urine fill the neck of the drain tube. This explained why a previous one appeared to stop draining. My theory is the lower balloon tube leaked so it collapsed and allowed the cath to come out some (up to the upper balloon), which covered the inlet. 

Ultimately, going up a size to Fr18 helped a lot. It prevents the cath from moving side to side I think which was apparently a source of irritation. It makes urine spray out more which is a little annoying when changing. I am also currently using a silicone coated latex cath, in part because I damaged my last duette, but it's also softer, it has been better. I think I thought it was hydrocoated (slippery surface maintained by moisture) but it is actually hydrophylic meaning liquid beads up on it, but it works for me. I also made holes using a wood burning tool and an small round tip. Had to be careful. I cut a notch in the package so I could expose it without putting it in contact with the work surface. Then carefully put three holes in about 1/8" apart, rotated around the cath except where the fill tube was. I tested this on an all latex cath and knew that the good released would wipe off. Since this was coated, it did wipe off, but discolored around the edges. I wiped it off with a wipe and then cleaned it with one of the disinfecting swab sticks once I had gloves on for insertion. 

I start by carefully modifying the cath and leave it mostly in its package. I pull the top off the insertion tray but don't touch what's inside. Then I shower and wash well, use a clean towel and try not to touch any bathroom surfaces with my hands. I open and apply the gloves. I open the swab sticks and swab the parts of the catheter that were touched by the cutting tool. I swab my genital area without touching it directly. Then I open and dispense the lube onto one of the drapes inside. I insert the syringe in the end of the cath. I use a swab and swab my left glove. I pull the cath from the package by the drain end using my right hand, wrap the lubed part of the drape around it and draw it through to coat it. Then I grab the end with my left, and insert it. Push bit by bit until urine comes out. I push until it stops, then load the balloon. Then I pull it back until the balloon is seated. I bought cath plugs and use that as a stopper. I have to sand the outer edge first as it's pretty sharp normally. I leave the cath whole, but plugged, and allow it to loop a little and usually put the end aiming up, though it doesn't matter as nothing comes out there. This seems to allow sufficient slack for movement without pulling. 

The cath I have in currently has a 30ml balloon. I thought bigger is better, thinking mostly that it would displace more space and drain sooner, but when first in, I could feel the end when I moved. That's why the duette is nice, but this didn't have that. I took 1/3rd of the water out and it has been fine since. From reading, the larger balloons are meant more for applying pressure to stop bleeding after surgery, so maybe not the ideal size. Some balloons are unsupported, so may expand unevenly and not create a good seal, but since we we're not trying to use a bag, and want it to leak around the cath, it shouldn't matter. The cath I'm using actually has a ribbed balloon, meaning it has internal supports to make it expand evenly. It wasn't visible, but that's what I read. 

Despite having a cath in, I was surprised to find that it still doesn't drain fully when sitting in certain positions. This is sort of nice in that it causes moments of greater loss. It's more annoying at night.. I sleep on my stomach and it does drain but drains more readily on my back. So I find myself turning over for this at times which kind of defeats the purpose. I was getting irritation at the tip, and read I could put neosporin on it. I started applying it at every change. It seemed ok but after several days, I was getting burning inside up near the tip. When I stopped the neosporin, it seemed to improve. (My neosporin had a pain relief ingredient, maybe that's why.) Now, it seems to burn a bit early in the day or if I haven't been drinking a lot, but then goes away. I think it's basically a function of the concentration of urine, because when I drink more and it flows more regularly, it doesn't burn at all. 

I will say that while there were times when it got to be too much and I took it out, there were many other times when it was less of a problem and while I considered it, I stuck it out and it got better. For instance, the first night is usually more irritating as it's new and more noticeable. I recommend a weekend day or some time when getting less than a good nights sleep is ok. It does seem to get easier each time I do it. Knowing better what to expect, preparing things more consistently, etc. Only thing that persists this time is an occasional state where I feel the need to push like I would when I urinate normally, but it seems to continue and grow almost to a cramp. I find it's best to pull back like I was stopping flow. The muscle calms down and everything is fine. I guess it's a spasm. 

I will say that every time I've taken it out, there was little or no residual effects. Maybe some burning for an hour or so, but then back to normal. Can't say there was any lasting loss of control but that's not unexpected. Our sphincters are meant to stay closed. 
 

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I have a question for all you men out there with a tube in your dongs : how do you place the catheter when going to sleep? If I place it down in the diaper then my littleman will migrate up eventually anyway and the pee will flow everywhere. Also how do you place it normally when up and about? I like to have mine pointing slightly up or to the side and the tubing doing a U turn down in the diaper.

Also other thoughts : if I stand up with a catheter inside I tend to get a lot of bladder spasms (probably because of the balloon pressing on the bladder. Do you guys experience the same? How long do you generally keep the catheter inside?

Do all of you use antiseptics on your meatus before insertion? I usually only clean with soap, sometimes I don't even clean myself down there (but I only keep the catheter inside for a few hours. And I don't insert if i'm too dirty either)

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13 hours ago, dipper said:

Also other thoughts : if I stand up with a catheter inside I tend to get a lot of bladder spasms (probably because of the balloon pressing on the bladder. Do you guys experience the same? How long do you generally keep the catheter inside? Spasms are generally a sign that the cath you are using is too small. try increasing one size at a time.

Do all of you use antiseptics on your meatus before insertion? ALWAYS I use povidone Iodine 10%. Same stuff you find in a catheter insertion kit.

 

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3 hours ago, Loveable_guy said:

 

I'm using Ch 18, sometimes Ch20, so I doubt it's too small as I already regret buying such large catheters (still have like 15 left of them) :P
How long do you keep your catheter in when having it in a diaper? :)

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I'm on anti-depressants, so I don't get many natural (unstimulated) erections anymore. But in terms of positioning the catheter, I've found it best to go down , curve it around and place the end pointing up. The end is probably at or below my penis, the loop is below that. I think the loop is important as it provides slack for movement. For a few days I wasn't positioning it specifically, just letting it hang down at change and scooping it up in the diaper so it didn't have a loop. I believe that's what led to the burning and irritation just inside the tip. Since I've gone back to careful arrangement, it's pretty much gone away. 

If you're having spasms and are using a 30ml cath, try removing some water. I wasn't having spasms but felt it when I walked. I reduced from 30 to 20ml and it went away. 

If you're using the cath fully open, you shouldn't do it for more than a couple days as you basically have created an open path for bacteria to follow. I'm doing the "holy foley" method which plugs the end of the cath and relies on the usual urine path. So it's safer and if you consume plenty of fluids, I think you can go for quite a while. I've had mine in for 2 weeks, and it's had its ups and downs, but the last couple days things seem to have stabilized. Not sure how long I'll go with it. Based on what I've read, silicone caths can be used for 6 weeks easily. We'll see. 

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I tried the holey foley a few days ago. But it didn't work for me. I had to consciously pee in order for the flow to start (so basically peeing manually but with a tube inside of you). I think I might have put the hole too high up so that the external urethral sphincter muscle was closing off the hole (unless I relaxed it). But I didn't feel the pee flowing outside the catheter the few times it happened. 

Normally I just point a regular catheter above my man dong so the pee trickles down the skin. Then I feel when I pee without the holey foley.

 

Quite nice to watch a movie and then notice that you're peeing yourself or forget about the time and then when you check your diaper you've managed to soak your pants. Oh how I love catheters :D

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That's likely what happened. I had to get a ruler and measure. It was further than I thought. Keep in mind, you're measuring from the base of the balloon, not the tip. I use the width of my hand (not including thumb) for reference which is about 3.5 inches. 

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I was asked how I modify catheters. I had inconsistent results trying to cut a hole and have gone to melting one again. Here is my current method. Your mileage may vary, I take no responsibility for how/whether it works for you. 

This is a Silastic (silicone coated latex) cath. I use a wood burner heated to highest setting with a narrow pointed tip. I also use a diaper wipe for cleaning the top and cleaning the resulting goo off the cath. 

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This cath doesn't have an inner bag, so I cut a notch out about 4 fingers width from the balloon base. This allows me access to the cath without touching it.  Cut the notch on the side opposite the syringe connector. The fill tube is located on the side where the connector is. 

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Carefully poke the tip of the iron into the cath. Do this in an area where some bad smells is ok. It will stink. It will pool a goo around the hole. At this stage, it's not through to the inside yet, so continue deeper, but don't push hard as you don't want to go through into the other side where the fill tube is. 

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Here we have broken through. At this stage, wipe the tip of the iron off on the wipe. And use the wipe to wipe off the goo. On some caths it completely wipes off. On this one, it leaves some discoloration. 

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That's where I stopped previously, but this last time, I discovered I can use the side of the iron tip and wipe it back and forth over the hole. this creates a recessed area for the hole which should make it less irritating. 

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Clean it off again

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Finally, use one of the swab sticks to clean and disinfect the area while leaving it in the bag. From here, I lube and insert as usual. 

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Great idea and write up, nice work. It's amazing how creative we have become with this project.

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Well... I tried this but my plumbing is a lot different than most people in this post.  I took one cath, inserted, inflated the baloon and then used a sharpie to make a lone where it comes out of my body.  With that as a guide I then took a new catheter and placed the hole about 1/4 of an inch before where the line is on the other catheter.  

What I found is my body still holds tightly around the hole so there isn't much uncontrolled leaking but I have an urge to pee much more often and I can't stop it once the urge starts so I'm wetting far more often.

Interesting experience

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