Leilin Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 To take into account all what is said, in one way, there is NO way to reproduce music, as each attempt cannot accurately enough reproduce what the composer intended. Oberving that, it is true that music is infinite. However, accepting the limitations within the composer, ones ability to document music and therefore reproduce it as close to the composers design as possible, we WILL get a fixed amount of notes, a fixed length of notes available etc, which when multiplied together WILL give a fixed number. The lenght of a pievce of music is within the range of being able to be performed within the composers lifetime, therefore, we also have a maximum length for a piece of music. As a result, mathematically, we can get a large, but fixed and finite number of possible music pieces, as I have already stated. If length were the only infinite factor, you might be correct, but it isn't, so you're not. Furthermore, your concept of the inability to produce assumes that the composer is not writing the music under the awareness that it may be reproduced with minor differences, something which most definitely does not pan out to reality (MANY composers sell reproduction rights to their music on release for band arrangements and similar things. Go check out a music store. There's an interesting, if not daunting variety there). Lastly, your comment completely discounts electronically produced music, which can very easily be exactly reproduced, down to the fraction of a wavelength. Infinite Factors: Melody Modulation (note by note) Instrumentation Length (see following) Rhythmic (Tonal) Rhythmic (Atonal) Lyric STILL furthermore, you assume that no composer can create a piece of music which is longer than his/her lifetime. That is not an accurate assumption. For an easy and fun example, look at "The Song That Never Ends." It can be repeated literally forever (assuming a new singer takes the place of the old one as they run out of energy) and is written to do PRECISELY that. It happens, in the case of the aforementioned, that it is what musicians call a vamp. It repeats until the conductor says not to. So does Vivaldi's The Four Seasons. So does Pomp and Circumstance (an especially long vamp) . Again, you are readily discounting or ignoring major facts which have been presented to you over and over at this point. Rather than selectively ignoring them, this would be the point where it would be tactful for you to stop digging and admit that you might be wrong, for once. Link to comment
lilJester Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Generation Base 10% Remaining Generation Age of 18 100 10 90 2010 1 90 9 81 2028 2 81 8.1 72.9 2046 3 72.9 7.29 65.61 2064 4 65.61 6.561 59.049 2082 5 59.049 5.9049 53.1441 2100 6 53.1441 5.31441 47.82969 2118 7 47.82969 4.782969 43.046721 2136 8 43.046721 4.3046721 38.7420489 2154 9 38.7420489 3.87420489 34.86784401 2172 10 34.86784401 3.486784401 31.38105961 2190 11 31.38105961 3.138105961 28.24295365 2208 12 28.24295365 2.824295365 25.41865828 2226 13 25.41865828 2.541865828 22.87679245 2244 14 22.87679245 2.287679245 20.58911321 2262 15 20.58911321 2.058911321 18.53020189 2280 16 18.53020189 1.853020189 16.6771817 2298 17 16.6771817 1.66771817 15.00946353 2316 18 15.00946353 1.500946353 13.50851718 2334 19 13.50851718 1.350851718 12.15766546 2352 20 12.15766546 1.215766546 10.94189891 2370 21 10.94189891 1.094189891 9.847709022 2388 22 9.847709022 0.984770902 8.86293812 2406 23 8.86293812 0.886293812 7.976644308 2424 24 7.976644308 0.797664431 7.178979877 2442 25 7.178979877 0.717897988 6.461081889 2460 26 6.461081889 0.646108189 5.8149737 2478 27 5.8149737 0.58149737 5.23347633 2496 28 5.23347633 0.523347633 4.710128697 2514 29 4.710128697 0.47101287 4.239115828 2532 30 4.239115828 0.423911583 3.815204245 2550 31 3.815204245 0.381520424 3.43368382 2568 32 3.43368382 0.343368382 3.090315438 2586 33 3.090315438 0.309031544 2.781283894 2604 34 2.781283894 0.278128389 2.503155505 2622 35 2.503155505 0.25031555 2.252839954 2640 36 2.252839954 0.225283995 2.027555959 2658 37 2.027555959 0.202755596 1.824800363 2676 38 1.824800363 0.182480036 1.642320327 2694 39 1.642320327 0.164232033 1.478088294 2712 40 1.478088294 0.147808829 1.330279465 2730 This tells us that removing 10% per generation, at 40 generations (year 2730, or in 620 years) the number of information points being passed on will be 1.33 out of 100, or 1.33%. Generation Base 25 Remaining 18 100 25 75 2010 1 75 18.75 56.25 2028 2 56.25 14.0625 42.1875 2046 3 42.1875 10.546875 31.640625 2064 4 31.640625 7.91015625 23.73046875 2082 5 23.73046875 5.932617188 17.79785156 2100 6 17.79785156 4.449462891 13.34838867 2118 7 13.34838867 3.337097168 10.0112915 2136 8 10.0112915 2.502822876 7.508468628 2154 9 7.508468628 1.877117157 5.631351471 2172 10 5.631351471 1.407837868 4.223513603 2190 11 4.223513603 1.055878401 3.167635202 2208 12 3.167635202 0.791908801 2.375726402 2226 13 2.375726402 0.5939316 1.781794801 2244 14 1.781794801 0.4454487 1.336346101 2262 15 1.336346101 0.334086525 1.002259576 2280 16 1.002259576 0.250564894 0.751694682 2298 I think, yes there is blood dripping from my ears. My brain just hemmoraged. Link to comment
Diapered Jason Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I think, yes there is blood dripping from my ears. My brain just hemmoraged. Don't sweat it, it's meaningless. We are in the information age. The very opposite of his prediction is occurring right now. I would definitely question the premise that about 10% of the information is lost per generation as that is just an arbitrary number. It also doesn't take into account literature and information that is necessary for our function that will always be passed on. We are also always learning new things too and rediscovering the past all the time. 1 Link to comment
Leilin Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Don't sweat it, it's meaningless. We are in the information age. The very opposite of his prediction is occurring right now. I would definitely question the premise that about 10% of the information is lost per generation as that is just an arbitrary number. It also doesn't take into account literature and information that is necessary for our function that will always be passed on. We are also always learning new things too and rediscovering the past all the time. It also doesn't take into account the fact that methods of storing information have improved with every generation. Like all of the rest of Keiff's "math" in this thread, it is based on bland supposition rather than any semblance of fact. This thread has become a testament to the precise arguments made by Zeno's paradox. 1 Link to comment
ldatsea Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 "So does Pomp and Circumstance (an especially long vamp) ." an especially long and PAINFUL vamp Link to comment
Leilin Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 "So does Pomp and Circumstance (an especially long vamp) ." an especially long and PAINFUL vamp Choir. Preaching. Etc. Link to comment
Yvhuce Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 "So does Pomp and Circumstance (an especially long vamp) ." an especially long and PAINFUL vamp Indeed... My graduating class developed a psychotic aversion to that... Arrangement... *needs smiley with psychotic eye twitch* Link to comment
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