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If you need any assistance when you start up on your work someday, let me know. I think I can contribute in the guide, although I'm not even close to the goal I strive at, maybe closer but that's it.

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I think there are many uncharted cycles of ebb and flow of desire in many human endeavors....I know I am just playing at incontinence sometimes, but sometimes I'm an awful lot more interested in being diapered and using my diapers than others.

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  • 9 months later...
  • 1 year later...

The waking at night is the biggest issue for you, most likely. I recall there being a lot of correlation between the start of real enuresis and the sharp decline of daytime continence, at least for those actively trying to diaper train.

You might consider one of the stent options for nighttime for a while, or one of many tricks that have been recommended in this and other diaper-training threads that helped their OPs with getting over that bedwetting hurdle.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey everyone!

Been... just a little while since I've posted.

I disappeared a few years ago due to a misdiagnosed rare form of epilepsy. It started as extreme vertigo and the inability to talk or remember/follow even a simple sitcom. Needless to say it took two years and an average of 30 doctor appointments a month for about 18 months to get the diagnosis (As of now I am still patient zero).

After we got the seizures under control I was still left with some additional scarring to my brain and long term mental and physical issues. I am on my way to be better health, and am finally seeing some steady improvements.

Much of what I have been dealing with is chronic pain, concentration, and nerve damage to my eyes- which has made it near impossible to sit in front of a computer for more than a few minutes up until the past couple of months.

I prolly won't be on this forum much in the coming months, but wanted to say hi, and to let everyone know I am still alive and getting better.

Now, I know you are wanting to know what my current status is with the incontinence as well as the guide.

The guide never really got started unfortunatley. Mahleedl and I were just starting to work on things when literally overnight I went from functional to non functional.

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hey brooke, glad your hanging in there. getting your health in order is the first thing you should focus on, after all you didn't get potty trained after the first time so you just have to dust yourself off and get back to it when your able so there's no rush on your part, as it's about the journey and not the destination, you can't be late if you arrive precisely when you want to.

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Thanks Mahlee!

@TantricFollower

Thank you for your support, and I am glad (if not surprised) this thread has been helpful to you and so many others after all this time.

Also, it's not petty to appreciate a documented journey such as this.

If there is anything that I want to convey it is to say the need, want and desire for incontinence is as real as any other type of body and identity dysphoria. The toll that such dissonance creates is also very real. I want to say again that the dysphoria that being continent causes for me is just as important and impactful on my health and wellbeing as my gender dysphoria and various health conditions.

If I could give you the takeaway that I've learned is this.

Yes, its real, it hurts, it matters. My suffering and issues though perhaps not common, well documented and well understood affects me no less than the challenges of 'recognized disorders, conditions and dysphorias'. The want and need to align and correct your body to more closely match your identity does not make you crazy, stupid, weird, or sick. We all have the basic human right to be comfortable in our own skin. The journey and reasons are irrelevant in this regard, as is what is currently considered fact by society. You have the right to live for you, and you are justified in doing what you need to in order to live a happy and full life.

One of the biggest surprises to me over the past few years was that experts don't know everything and far too often their ego gets in the way of their willingness and ability to learn. Too many times I've run across "if I haven't heard of it, and can't find documentation and research than it doesn't exist".

I actually went through over 30 specialists before getting the correct diagnosis. I've had neurologists tell me that what I was experiencing could not be real, and it was a "physical manifestation of severe depression". I've had doctors rule out the brain with absolute certainty that my issues were not neurological.

Society and doctors forget that modern medicine is really in its infancy and that the journey of medicine, yes even modern medicine is marked by "facts and proven treatments" that in historical context is viewed as an atrocity, inhumane and simply just wrong.

So don't undercut yourself and what you feel and need.

Yes, it's real, it hurts, it hard, and it matters!

-Brooke- AKA Blake

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I hate that inability to admit uncertainty that doctors are prone to. That's WHY Watson can more accurately diagnose than most human doctors - it doesn't have preconceived ideas and blind spots. For all their self-assumption, sometimes a quick Google search comes up with the right answer but they wave their hands and say "that's not what it is, you self-diagnosing lunatic."

Admitting you know nothing is the first step to wisdom.

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On 13/12/2016 at 10:52 PM, Creepymouse said:

The waking at night is the biggest issue for you, most likely. I recall there being a lot of correlation between the start of real enuresis and the sharp decline of daytime continence, at least for those actively trying to diaper train.

You might consider one of the stent options for nighttime for a while, or one of many tricks that have been recommended in this and other diaper-training threads that helped their OPs with getting over that bedwetting hurdle.

Certainly once my bedwetting became a regular thing once more my daytime control was soon lost too.

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  • 3 years later...

Hey everyone,

Another quick hello. I wanted to both check in, let you know I’m still around, though my life and health is still quite the rollercoaster.

I wanted to take a pull, as what is to become of this thread, the guide which was mentioned so many years ago and if that is still wanted/needed.

I’ve been reading through a lot of the recent threads in this sub forum and I see the same questions come up over and over.

Please reply if you have any thoughts as to what should come of all of this, if anything or if we as a group have moved beyond the need of the resources held within the posts of “what to expect “

Thanks!

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Much of this thread is a interesting read and I can relate to some of it. I understand your struggle to become incontinent and remember mine. For me urinary incontinence was easy as a accident caused mine and in time I really embraced it. I felt the need for bowel incontinence as well and that was much harder to achieve. But that was several years ago now. Today I’m fully incontinent and couldn’t be happier. I hope you achieved the level you wanted as well. The driving force behind it is something I don’t understand and no longer try. I just figured that it makes no sense to understand the need when the end result is being content. 

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1 hour ago, Brudda Voodu said:

I have a question. Its been 10 years since you started this thread. In 10 years have your personal decisions made your life, better,worse or is it the same?

I realize your question was directed at someone else but I’d like to answer your question as well. I’m well over 10 years urinary incontinent and somewhere around 6 years bowel incontinent and my life is far better. Being dual formed a completion for me. 

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I have a question. Its been 10 years since you started this thread. In 10 years have your personal decisions made your life, better,worse or is it the same?

For me the answer is infinitely difficult to untangle from how life would have been. I think for me it’s a net positive, which is to say sometimes they get in the way but the benefit they provide in terms of not just emotional reasons but also physical/functional is immense. I don’t think the joy they consistently bring to my life will ever go away. I believe that joy should be valued, it’s hard to come by in the darkest of times.

The decision to just stop fighting the urge and need has left my shoulders much lighter, much more capable to handle life’s other burdens. I didn’t ever quite realize how much emotional energy went into fighting this, and how much self acceptance and more self embracing who you are can be.

It also gets easier. The first year is by far the most stressful as you’re excited, anxious, embarrassed, questioning, trying to make it work. Slowly that fades into routine. I mean routine in that you don’t have to think about the routine, the logistics, you can just enjoy.

I’ll be the first to admit that there were several start and stops after the first year as my health went haywire. Each of those cycles I lost more and more control and it got to the point where I was constantly on hyper vigilance not to have an accident all the while wasting energy on fighting not wearing.

I don’t think there is a point of no return in the way we commonly think about it. More I think each time you do return the harder it is to make it all the way back.

I’ve been doing a lot of reading on how the brain never really loses its motor patterns, rather the brain chooses which patterns to use. It is also possible to modify these patterns and replace the primary with secondary patterns. I believe this is the most accurate representation that happens when attempting to achieve incontinence. It’s the same reason modifying an old habit is much easier than creating a new one.

I think we are tapping into that training/patterns we never really lost- strengthening them and learning not to fear them. With enough time they become dominant and tend to corrupt or modify the training we received after (potty training). It explains why incontinence is first achieved again only when padded, only during the day, then at night occasionally and then completely. (Night opportunity to switch to those patterns is much less because you’re unconscious).

Anyway back to your question, for me it’s been for the better. It’s been far less intrusive than I thought, and in many ways not mentioned already has made life much easier.

Any questions or comments are welcome, as always.
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10 hours ago, BlakeJordan said:


For me the answer is infinitely difficult to untangle from how life would have been. I think for me it’s a net positive, which is to say sometimes they get in the way but the benefit they provide in terms of not just emotional reasons but also physical/functional is immense. I don’t think the joy they consistently bring to my life will ever go away. I believe that joy should be valued, it’s hard to come by in the darkest of times.

The decision to just stop fighting the urge and need has left my shoulders much lighter, much more capable to handle life’s other burdens. I didn’t ever quite realize how much emotional energy went into fighting this, and how much self acceptance and more self embracing who you are can be.

It also gets easier. The first year is by far the most stressful as you’re excited, anxious, embarrassed, questioning, trying to make it work. Slowly that fades into routine. I mean routine in that you don’t have to think about the routine, the logistics, you can just enjoy.

I’ll be the first to admit that there were several start and stops after the first year as my health went haywire. Each of those cycles I lost more and more control and it got to the point where I was constantly on hyper vigilance not to have an accident all the while wasting energy on fighting not wearing.

I don’t think there is a point of no return in the way we commonly think about it. More I think each time you do return the harder it is to make it all the way back.

I’ve been doing a lot of reading on how the brain never really loses its motor patterns, rather the brain chooses which patterns to use. It is also possible to modify these patterns and replace the primary with secondary patterns. I believe this is the most accurate representation that happens when attempting to achieve incontinence. It’s the same reason modifying an old habit is much easier than creating a new one.

I think we are tapping into that training/patterns we never really lost- strengthening them and learning not to fear them. With enough time they become dominant and tend to corrupt or modify the training we received after (potty training). It explains why incontinence is first achieved again only when padded, only during the day, then at night occasionally and then completely. (Night opportunity to switch to those patterns is much less because you’re unconscious).

Anyway back to your question, for me it’s been for the better. It’s been far less intrusive than I thought, and in many ways not mentioned already has made life much easier.

Any questions or comments are welcome, as always.

This by far is one of the better explanations I’ve read out here. It doesn’t explain the drive in some of us to do it but that’s not all that important anyway. Not that you would know or understand either. Please don’t view that as a attack. Clearly that would never be my intention. It’s just an additional question I would have lingering. The bottom line is how does it make you feel? If life is better then that’s really all that counts. 

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@BlakeJordan I appreciate your detailed and well thought out answer to my question.  As I read your response I felt similarity in my own feelings.  The "giving in" and just wearing and using diapers, the feeling of an emotional weight being lifted. I am happy to report that I felt that too, when I "gave in" to 24/7 wearing.

Dealing with these compulsions is our burden to carry it seems.  It makes my burden feel lighter to carry, when I read about people like you struggling and succeeding.  Thank you for being so candid.  You are inspiring.

 

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This by far is one of the better explanations I’ve read out here. It doesn’t explain the drive in some of us to do it but that’s not all that important anyway. Not that you would know or understand either. Please don’t view that as a attack. Clearly that would never be my intention. It’s just an additional question I would have lingering. The bottom line is how does it make you feel? If life is better then that’s really all that counts. 



I’m going to copy/paste from another post I made a little earlier in this thread, at least to start.

If there is anything that I want to convey in this thread it is to say the need, want and desire for incontinence is as real as any other type of body and identity dysphoria.

The toll that such dissonance creates is also very real. I want to say again that the dysphoria that being continent causes for me is just as important and impactful on my health and wellbeing as my gender dysphoria and various health conditions. (I’m transgender).

If I could give you the takeaway that I've learned it is this.

Yes, its real, it hurts, it matters. My suffering and issues though perhaps not common, well documented and well understood affects me no less than the challenges of 'recognized disorders, conditions and dysphorias.

The want and need to align and correct your body to more closely match your identity does not make you crazy, stupid, weird, or sick. We all have the basic human right to be comfortable in our own skin. The journey and reasons are irrelevant in this regard, as is what is currently considered fact by society.

You have the right to live for you, and you are justified in doing what you need to in order to live a happy and full life.

One of the biggest surprises to me over the past few years was that experts don't know everything and far too often their ego gets in the way of their willingness and ability to learn. Too many times I've run across "if I haven't heard of it, and can't find documentation and research than it doesn't exist".

I actually went through over 30 specialists before getting the correct diagnosis. I've had neurologists tell me that what I was experiencing could not be real, and it was a "physical manifestation of severe depression". I've had doctors rule out the brain with absolute certainty that my issues were not neurological.

Society and doctors forget that modern medicine is really in its infancy and that the journey of medicine, yes even modern medicine is marked by "facts and proven treatments" that in historical context is viewed as an atrocity, inhumane and simply just wrong.

So don't undercut yourself and what you feel and need.

Yes, it's real, it hurts, it hard, and it matters!

————-
I wanted to reference my other health challenges to rgive some context to your underlying questions.

How does it make me feel and what is the drive to align my body in such a way. I’ll do my best to answer.

This journey for me is about alignment, recognition, acceptance. I suppose the easiest of the two answers to give is that it makes me feel at peace, and whole, it’s as if a part of me is seen and not shamed for the first time in my life.

The why... well that’s a much longer explanation....

I read a book recently that theorizes “infantilism, or adult infantile regression” fits much better on the scale of dissociative disorders than lumped in with psychosexual paraphernalia diagnoses.

For me the concept of a sub identity born out of unmet needs and/or trauma clicked and everything fell into place. It explained our desire to explain these drives, to rationalize them somehow but in truth, at least for me I believe whatever happened, whether it was unmet needs with attachment, or trauma happened much earlier than I had previously thought, younger than preschool age and when solid memories started to form.

The result was a fracture in identity, a young girl stuck in time trying get needs met that were never fulfilled. Creating a cycle of want and need to feel safe, to be taken care of, to be loved, and to be able to trust others.

From what I know about my life from being born to preschool age and through age 9 when the self/ego typically becomes whole it fits.

The closest representation the book gives as a recognized diagnosis is OSDD-1B. This child part of us is them a real person, with real feelings and real needs, rather than a little side of our adult self.

For me, that simple framing that this child has unmet needs changes everything. Understanding that this part of me had every right to live their own life, allowed me to shed the shame, the fight, the guilt, and embrace this little girl’s needs. We found together that the best way to keep balance was to wear 24/7 and seek incontinence due to the strong regressive nature of her needs.

I want to make clear that for us, her identity is as real as mine. I want to make clear that she doesn’t know what happened for our mind to create her, but that is beside the point. I have always identified as female and thus her identity isn’t that of a sissy etc.

I will also add that much of my younger childhood was filled with trauma, abuse, peer trauma, and medical traumas. Not the perfect typical conditions, if there ever even was (there isn’t) to create multiple alters. This is something I’m currently working on with my psychologist as over the Q1-Q3 of 2019 I ended up in the hospital for about 90 days straight and the period before and after I have retrograde and anterior-grade amnesia. The memory loss caused acute ptsd and started us down the path of sign posts that are easier to see in the rear view mirror. These included missing about 3 years straight of my later childhood, two trips of a lifetime during that period lasting 2.5 months each, pretty much 90% of my college memories wiped out, and that knowledge and skill set being intermittently available.

We know I have some sort of dissociative disorder but aren’t sure exactly what. I believe it’s either OSDD-1B or DID.

I also bring this up as the book that I’ve referenced came up in my deep dive into dissociative literature and I did not specifically seek it out or cling to it.

I was, and still am looking for a diagnosis that explains my intermittent full body paralysis which was what put me in the hospital in the first place and for which doctors can’t explain yet. I basically cast a wide net on every diagnosis that had known similar presentations which led me down the disassociation rabbit hole.

(though I’m told by family members that doctors had observed the disassociation while I was in the hospital and talked to me at length about it, but alas for me that conversation was never recorded, lol)
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I’m not sure how it went for you but after I became urinary incontinent and became proficient at management of it I had thought about being bowel incontinent as well but never acted on it. Several years went by & I tried it. Something clicked and I’ve never used the toilet again. Over time it became automatic. No planning for it as it all became automatic. Today it’s multiple times in any given 24 hour period. So it’s like I’ve come full circle and am fully content.

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7 minutes ago, incondl said:

I’m not sure how it went for you but after I became urinary incontinent and became proficient at management of it I had thought about being bowel incontinent as well but never acted on it. Several years went by & I tried it. Something clicked and I’ve never used the toilet again. Over time it became automatic. No planning for it as it all became automatic. Today it’s multiple times in any given 24 hour period. So it’s like I’ve come full circle and am fully content.

I am starting to experience bowel incontinence the longer I unpotty train my bladder.  I recently shared my fear of my diminishing bowel control to my wife and she did not respond.  This was a hard limit for her when I started unpotty training.  Now I may have no choice.  I feel she is very disappointed in me about this.

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I’m not sure how it went for you but after I became urinary incontinent and became proficient at management of it I had thought about being bowel incontinent as well but never acted on it. Several years went by & I tried it. Something clicked and I’ve never used the toilet again. Over time it became automatic. No planning for it as it all became automatic. Today it’s multiple times in any given 24 hour period. So it’s like I’ve come full circle and am fully content.

Did you mean fully incontinent in that last sentence? If not I’m confused.

Honestly I’ve avoided and resists becoming fecally incontinent. Simply to the the mess, and difficulty getting myself clean with one hand when out and about.

That being said the past couple years I e developed bad autonomic dysfunction/POTS which also includes delayed gastric emptying. Basically the food doesn’t move from my stomach quickly and then can basically get stuck in the GI tract. Feels like I’m bloated pretty much all the time and have to use some sort of laxatives regularly. At this point due to the discomfort I would be okay with the occasional accident if it got me regular. Quite the interesting thought experiment!
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