People Against Prohibition

[Conatus]

let me know what you think. sorry for the edit i forgot an important one. i also added some photos for your reference

[diaperpt]

let me know what you think. sorry for the edit i forgot an important one.

Well, I think the real problem with drugs is the people who get addicted to them. Part of the problem with those people are the other people who warp the first people to the point where they feel the need to take the drugs.

While I don't think addictive drugs ought to be legal, 1) I realize this is a little bit of a contradiction in that I don't think alcohol ought to be illegal 2) I don't think the penalties for drug use ought to be as harsh as they are and 3) when those drug laws are enforced, they ought to be enforced equally and fairly among all those involved - not favoring rich over poor or on the basis of race or culture (as seems statistically true now).

There IS a drug problem in this country that legalization will not fix nor will any 'war on drugs' and so I don't think that is the real question. The real questions are what can we do to help keep people away from addiction (not simply casual, occassional use) and how do we treat people with addictions. Unfortunately, I don't have good, simple, workable solutions. I think the solutions (or inability to find solutions) is wrapped up both in our individual human make-up and in our societal and cultural being. The first step - a BIG one - would be to stop throwing people in prison for simple use or addictions. Too many people are making too much money from the Prison-Industrial Complex (any older people out there remember the talk about the Military-Industrial Complex which STILL chews up our money!).

While it seems I'm talking about decriminalization, I'm not talking legalization. The legal system seems to want to throw the little guy (or girl) into jail for small offenses it seems just because those people are vulnerable...the guy who is addicted himself and sells just to support his own habit, etc. Check out how many people are incarcerated for drugs as opposed to violent crimes - we'd save a LOT on our taxes if we treated them as a medical and/or mental health issue (yeah, but really treated them as opposed to closing down helping agencies) instead of criminals. No, I don't want to coddle them, excuse them, or simply support them, but throwing them in jail only builds up our tax burden.

Maybe we need to get Botox to be in charge of their rehabilitation! He's had several great stories based on justice issues!!

[~Skitty~]

im all for weed, other drugs i dont really care about.

the problem with weed is the propaganda, when you goto a dealer you have to buy from a shady source. somebody that could probably push other stuff on you.

thats why weed is "a gate way drug" because your dealer (depends on who they are) are trying to pussh other drugs on you.

thats all really.

my main beef is with tobacco laws now.

this country (america) grew on tobacco, everybody smoked. it was widely accepted.

now anti-smokers, have the dangers of tobacco over hyped and over propagandad.

ive been smoking for 2 years, and i havent had any negative affects yet. so why are people freakingg out about second hand smoke when its only like a .1% that i ingest on a daily basis?

its bullshit. plain and simple :l

[WallaWalla]

Everything should be legalized and obtained through highly regulated legal dispensaries that took advantage of a licensing system. Medical licenses could be obtained from a doctor in a manner similar to prescriptions, they would function within the limitations set forth by the doctor that had prescribed them. In regard to recreational drugs, elective licensing courses could be taken to demonstrate an awareness of the risks of drug use. Recreational drug purchases would be monitored to curtail license sharing and those who got into any kind of trouble at all while under the influence would immediately have their license temporarily(long term though, at least a couple of years, in regard to misdemeanors at least) or permanently revoked(in the case of violent crime, DWI, or any felony) in addition to whatever other legal charges would normally apply.

Nothing will change until the hard drugs are legalized on that front though, because that is where the element of criminality lies. People aren't out killing and robbing each other over a brick of weed, they are doing it over drugs like heroin,cocaine, and methamphetamine. While the legalization of marijuana is important from a civil liberties standpoint, it would do very little to address the growing problem of the criminal underclass that is being fueled by the illegal trafficking and distribution of hard drugs.

The revenue to maintain and operate the dispensaries could come from both sales taxes and licensing fees. Or, optionally, a portion of the budget currently allocated to the housing of inmates.

There you have my fiscally conservative and air-tight platform for the regulation of recreational drug use in the United States.

ive been smoking for 2 years, and i havent had any negative affects yet. so why are people freakingg out about second hand smoke when its only like a .1% that i ingest on a daily basis?

its bullshit. plain and simple :l

I agree that the dangers are overhyped, but that you have suffered no ill effects in two years of use is hardly proof of tobacco's innocence. Especially considering that you are still very young.

Smoke a pack a day and call us back in 20 years.

[tenderheart]

im all for weed, other drugs i dont really care about.

the problem with weed is the propaganda, when you goto a dealer you have to buy from a shady source. somebody that could probably push other stuff on you.

thats why weed is "a gate way drug" because your dealer (depends on who they are) are trying to pussh other drugs on you.

thats all really.

my main beef is with tobacco laws now.

this country (america) grew on tobacco, everybody smoked. it was widely accepted.

now anti-smokers, have the dangers of tobacco over hyped and over propagandad.

ive been smoking for 2 years, and i havent had any negative affects yet. so why are people freakingg out about second hand smoke when its only like a .1% that i ingest on a daily basis?

its bullshit. plain and simple :l

I don't know about that either. Yeah there is a lot of propaganda surrounding herb, but it's still bad for you to smoke it. As far as tobacco goes I used to smoke it, I felt the difference in my body and lungs when I quit 4 years ago. My dad smoked tobacco for 40 years until he had 2 strokes. To bad it completely changed his personality. Sometimes not dying from smoking is scarier than being put in the ground. Smoking is reaaaaaly bad for you. But I don't believe in laws prohibiting it. Same goes for ganja it makes you unmotivated and damages your lungs but hey it's your call and it's fun to get high.

But much better legalization arguments can be made such as the fact the keeping it illegal only gives money to the black market (aka gangsters) and the only way to solve disputes in the black market is violence. So in essence you are making harmless people into criminals, giving the real criminals more money, and increasing violence overall. Not to mention all the tax revenue that is lost (our schools could use that) and the fact we could export internationally because we all know california grow the best herb. So yeah keeping cannabis illegal doesn't make any sense unless you are coming at it from a moral perspective and you think it is evil to get high.

Oh of course you have the medical argument. That argument is what is going to make cannabis legal.

[Conatus]

Benzodiazepines and barbiturates

[Conatus]

psychoactives

[peelover]

I think marijuana should be legal because its just a natural plant with nothing added. The only reason why its illegal is because of anti-marijuana propaganda. I once heard an anti-drug speech where the person was saying that marijuana has thousands of chemicals in it, but neglected to mention that every single one of those chemicals come from the plant.

[WallaWalla]

I think marijuana should be legal because its just a natural plant with nothing added. The only reason why its illegal is because of anti-marijuana propaganda. I once heard an anti-drug speech where the person was saying that marijuana has thousands of chemicals in it, but neglected to mention that every single one of those chemicals come from the plant.

Well, it's certainly not a matter of what they add so much as what they remove in the case of coca and poppies. Not trying to be critical, but there are thousands of natural poisons out there.

"All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." ~ Paracelcus

To me, the issue has a lot more to do with the right to self-determination and the role of government than anything. The financial disaster of imprisoning millions of extra people is another issue of concern...

[PrincessDragonette]

Well, it's certainly not a matter of what they add so much as what they remove in the case of coca and poppies. Not trying to be critical, but there are thousands of natural poisons out there.

"All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." ~ Paracelcus

To me, the issue has a lot more to do with the right to self-determination and the role of government than anything. The financial disaster of imprisoning millions of extra people is another issue of concern...

I agree completely, with the following added: The drug war has done nothing to even slow the tide of drugs. So what's the point? If it were legal, those with addictions could search out treatment and help instead of being treated as criminals, which, more often than not, at least in the US, results in lives as second-class citizens.

The main point is whether or not you think it is right for one person to decide for another what is good/right for them. Is it okay for me to tell my friends that disposable diapers are not okay anymore, they now have to use cloth? Oh and if they don't comply I get to seize their house, possessions and lock them in a cell for whatever length of time that I determine? Government is only an idea and made up of people, no matter which "system" it uses. Laws are in no way more than one person or group of people imposing their will on the rest of humanity. I have no iron in the fire either way with drugs, I don't use them, though I have in the past, I just don't think it's right for me to decide what someone else can put in their body, especially when a group of people calling themselves the "government" take my money to punish drug users with.

Okay, I'm done ranting. Back to baby time and ignoring all the big people problems in the world.

[Jedward]

First of all let me start that I been in the medical profession for the last 23 years and have worked most of that time in either ER or mental health. I have seen first hand the good and bad point of drugs. To have them like in the 19 century, is scare as I have medical book from that era and the death from meds like opiun and cocaine were out rageous. The main reason that they were regulated is that people were dying. Currently I am working on my prescriptive privlage with my advanced practice nurse status. Some of the drug you have listed are leagal with a prescription, but have a high degree of addictiveness and abuse. Some like marajauna we are realized have limited medical uses, especially in the treatment of HIV and cancer. Will their status be changed, we have to wait and see. I don't see cocaine being change or the halucigen being change as they don't serve a medical purpose at all. Though my tribe does us peyote for religous reason, but that a different story. The other problem with regulating these is regulating what is in the drug as all drugs by law are to be free of contaminants and with off the stree drugs like meth, crack, and opiods they are far from free. But there are great if you want to ingest a whole host of toxic chemicals.

Jay Esq. RN BSN CPMHN.(Psychiatric Clinical Nurse Specialist Masters Student)

[sarah_ab]

I believe marijuana should be taxed and sold to those 18 and over with a valid government ID. I also think the drinking age should be lowered to 18.

If someone can sign up for the armed forces, fight for our country, suffer horrific wounds, they should be allowed to come home and have a beer.

Benzo's are already legal with a prescription from a medical doctor, but if you meant over the counter, no i do not believe they should be available like that.

I believe marijuana should be legal because it is a naturally occuring substance. For almost all of the others on your list they are not naturally occuring but are made in a laboratory and so no i do not think those should be available.

[Conatus]

the problem i see is that people cant seem to regulate themselves. drugs like marijuana are harmless, they are completely natural, less intoxicating than alcohol and impossible to OD on. they tested monkeys to see how much thc it would take to make the monkey OD. they found that they could not inject the monkey with enough thc to make it OD. as far as other drugs i personally would be more cautious with. opiates until the 1930's could be bought at the local drug store. i think if people are educated about the risks and still want to use them that should be there option. benzos and barbiturates i don't have much of an opinion on other than the general free choice argument. we are already giving millions of adults and kids (mostly kids) amphetamines in the form of Ritalin and adderal, in the name of add treatment(ugh don't get me started). i look at psychoactive separately than all the rest, because there effect is so dependent on your mindset and setting. mdma i believe has great potential in psychotherapy used properly it is a beautiful drug. there are however side-effects of overuse. psilocybin like marijuana is totally natural and safe to use. lsd is considered non toxic however, i would be cautious because of the profound effects and potentially negative effects it can have on the mind. i do feel all psychoactive used properly can be a wonderful thing and should be considered in psychotherapy. there is also recent studies that have found lsd and psilocybin useful in the treatment of cluster headaches, the most severe and most difficult to treat form of headache.

[SilverIce]

From my backgrounds ill offer a law enforcement perspective.

First, marijuana and individuals who choose to abuse this substance are much easier to deal with then say alcoholics, Harder drug addicts, and other forms of crime deemed criminal. That being said I also believe that alcohol as long as its controlled deals no harm unless the individual has the mens rea, or in English, the criminal mind to abuse the substance. Now, especially in America you guys have a high drinking age which makes since considering whether or not most of you are old enough to remember it wasn’t very long ago when America didn’t even allow alcohol. Most anything is alright in moderation, it’s the addictive properties that need to be monitored. Other “harder

[rickibrat2]

NO WAY

it is like drinking to many people think it is there right to drink and drive or use pot and drive

then others have to clean up the mess they make on the road and we have to deal with the friends parents of others no longer allowed to be alive because some one else felt they had to right to drink or use drugs and drive

i also feel the it should be heath care option and not part of the standard package as we pay way to much to detox them for to be clean for a few weeks

also tired of paying the cost of other being in jail for the 3 rd time and up and feel they need to be killed they have no right to medical coverage if veterans have no right to coverage

[WallaWalla]

also tired of paying the cost of other being in jail for the 3 rd time and up and feel they need to be killed they have no right to medical coverage if veterans have no right to coverage

So people who get caught smoking pot a few times should be killed huh?

[rickibrat2]

yes if you do it the drive a car truck bike and injury another person

why do theyhave to pay with there life because you felt like doing something agaist the law

[WallaWalla]

yes if you do it the drive a car truck bike and injury another person

why do theyhave to pay with there life because you felt like doing something agaist the law

Driving while intoxicated is illegal in regard to any substance, including alcohol. I do not understand why it is being brought up in relation to a discussion about prohibition. Driving while intoxicated would still be illegal even if prohibition were repealed. I also hope that you are using 'you' to speak generally.

I might have just misunderstood you, but what I quoted seemed to indicate that you think that all people who have committed three or more offenses that resulted in jail-time should be put to death. I didn't notice where you strictly limited this to just those who drive while intoxicated and their doing so results in the injury of others.

I would hope that anybody participating in this discussion is firmly against driving while intoxicated. I simply do not think that an increased prevalence of incidents involving DWI would occur as a result of repealing prohibition under the proper circumstances. After all, it's not an either/or thing. You can bring levels of graduation into the process, and it's possible to regulate something as opposed to let it run wild or ban it entirely. Much in the same way that we do with prescription drugs, we could establish similar systems for what are at this time considered 'recreational drugs.'

[rickibrat2]

i just got home

sorry in a bad mood right now you see a buch of kids from collage decide they had the right to operat a boat under the infunace of drugs and drinking the drive of the boat was on probation alread for an accident

4 people are now dead on spring break me and my parter had to risk out lifes to recover the body of a child from 250 feet of water

and yes i belive that if you have not learned to not to hurt others or you use a weapon or you sell drugs to a child you rape or kill other you need to be pull down

we have a would of ohter that thing some one owes them somethin i must be from a different world where you took the responsablity of your actions

as for jail time that is the biggest joke i have seen in a long time

labor day weekend a person once again on probation for dui x's 3 killed two kids drivng under something

you know he only got 2 years for that

i have seen people get more time for stealing food for there familys

maybe as a nurse and what i do for a living i see more of this trash then others do

do not get me wrong i like the drug my body makes when i risk my life be it base jumping, driving my dragster, driving my mustang on the track i love the rush

but i do not need the other drugs i do not drink i learned my lesson many years ago

when me and a friend decide we want a bear skin rug for our room in kodiak alaska

we went hunting with 22. cal rifes because of to much beer and that was the only weapon allowed in the barricks

that *)* bear must have chased us 5 miles till we came accross other who killed the bear

then then belive they had a right to the skin

i feel you go to jail the first time you need to learn from that senoc time well you may have a proble but if you know the next time you will be killed it may make you grown u

i belive it it is not cruel and unusall unless it it worst then the crime you did to be in jail

[SilverIce]

Yes, im going to have to specify i suppose. My comment was directly related towards the use of the substance within a safe manner. The operation of any type of vehic. while under the influence of some substance~ well as stated above, clearly goes without saying. "Unacceptable"" Period.

[messyman]

I can't see any problem with having pot regulated like tobacco and alcohol.

Hallucinogens can be safe but most users would not like the regulations. You really can't safely use them until you are at least 25. By that age you will probably know about any mental illnesses. The other safe way would be in a very controlled environment with a experienced person guiding the whole trip with lots of preparation and debriefing. Shamans always guided the rituals traditionally.

There really isn't a safe way to use most of the other ones recreationally.

[rickibrat2]

I KNOW OF VEY FEW PEOPLE THAT HAVE USED WEEDIN IN THERE HOMES AND HAD PROBLEMS WITH THE COPS

THE PROBLEMS START WHEN THE GO OUT SIDE THERE HOMES AND TRY SELLING THE DRUG TO OTHERS OR DRIVING

in most places youy are allowed to have a certain amount with no problem

you are allowed i belive to have one or 2 plants for personal use

the problem come when you try to go over board and make money from it by selling or to many plants

another thing the stuff on the market to day is all enhanced to increase the drugs effect not the stuff from the 60's

as for new rules we already have so many rules on the books that are no enforced we need know more

years ago i may have siad it was a good idea but as i have gotten older i have seen many other things and how others react

i have seen the world go from what i grew up with to a world where others just want thing hand to them with no work or they think they have rights

it use to be if you got caugh using any drug you did time and lost right that is not now the case jail is not big deal

they are no drugs out there that your body does not make a better one all but it self, you just have to have the guts to push your bods limits to the wall then take the big step and go thought the wall talk about a rush they is nothing out there that can ever replace that

this does not change my feeling about 3 time losers at all

[Conatus]

Yes, im going to have to specify i suppose. My comment was directly related towards the use of the substance within a safe manner. The operation of any type of vehic. while under the influence of some substance~ well as stated above, clearly goes without saying. "Unacceptable"" Period.

so you are saying it is unacceptable to drive a car while under the influence of ANY substance. hhmmmm.. so you think people who use tobacco, caffeine, blood-pressure medicine, any sort of heart, diabetic, or psych drug, or any other drug should not be aloud to drive while under the influence of that drug. wow you must want the whole road to yourself. the fact of the matter is that medicine effects people differently. if you know you can handle a car while on a cirtan medicine then you should be aloud to. some people are shitty drivers sober let alone intoxicated and they are still aloud to drive.

[SilverIce]

so you are saying it is unacceptable to drive a car while under the influence of ANY substance. hhmmmm.. so you think people who use tobacco, caffeine, blood-pressure medicine, any sort of heart, diabetic, or psych drug, or any other drug should not be aloud to drive while under the influence of that drug. wow you must want the whole road to yourself. the fact of the matter is that medicine effects people differently. if you know you can handle a car while on a cirtan medicine then you should be aloud to. some people are shitty drivers sober let alone intoxicated and they are still aloud to drive.

Okay so... to specify to people who cant grasp generalization without having their hand held...

Let me rephrase to, mind altering substances that ""Clearly"" prevent and individual from operating a motor vehic. in a safe manner...

Also, i am not trying to target issues involving medication as that has a broad spectrum and i would be here all day. (Dont start quoting med. based MJ etc ~_~)

And towards shitty drivers, that also has nothing to do with anything in this thread.

[WallaWalla]

(Dont start quoting med. based MJ etc ~_~)

Okay then, I won't. I'll cite 'medical' methamphetamine instead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine_%28medical%29

Methamphetamine, known by the brand name Desoxyn, is a psychostimulant drug which is FDA approved for the treatment of ADHD and exogenous obesity.[2]

The funny thing is that they even give amphetamine to children, because it's just that safe when you take it in the proper doses.

Oh and that heroin stuff? Well, heroin is just a brand name. That's right, it heroin was a product marketed by Bayer at one point. The actual name of the drug is diacetylmorphine, and it's almost identical to morphine. In fact, it is still prescribed by competent doctors for pain in many developed countries to this very day under the name of diamorphine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin

Under the name diamorphine, heroin is prescribed as a strong analgesic in the United Kingdom, where it is given via subcutaneous, intramuscular, intrathecal or intravenous route. Its use includes treatment for acute pain, such as in severe physical trauma, myocardial infarction, post-surgical pain, and chronic pain, including end-stage cancer and other terminal illnesses. In other countries it is more common to use morphine or other strong opioids in these situations.

There you have it, the two most evil drugs in the world are both used for medical purposes in several developed nations. I fail to understand why any substance is fully prohibited when there are superior systems already in place that would enable regulation.