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Bi; Gender Identity Issues


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I've always been bi, but have had few opportunities to make anything of it (similarly there have been few girls I have ever been interested in). I've always known it but considered myself leaning straight, until recently.

I've also always preffered to be mostly masculine in character but feminine in manner. That general way of being has been dynamite for me and worked excellently, until recently. There are several guys I really like whom I wish to become involved with (one of which is undoubtedly straight :crybaby: but we will still make great friends, I know it) but in addition I can so easily see myself as feminine, to some degree, in appearance and perhaps even form. And increasingly. I'm still not sure how far I'll end up taking it, but it is unnerving the hell out of me because it might just change everything and I could easily be carried away. And just when I thought my life had reached an equilibrium :/

It scares me even though the concept is very familiar to me (I have suspicions that someone I liked was transgendered, she was tall, lower voice than usual, ~masculinish hands but far more beautiful than the vast majority of girls, despite. Normally wore relatively neutral clothing.) and I've been thinking about it, on-again-off-again for a long time. When I was about 14-15 I considered the possibility of some level of transgendering but I considered it 'just a phase'. Now I'm beginning to wonder.

I see diapers as feminine, if anything, so that won't be a conflict. But I really don't know where I'm going with this, but I guess I'm about to find out. Any input would be useful.

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Pretty good answer for someone just starting out abrera. One thing I might add to this is that you can better understand the big picture if you step out of your shoes for a while. You might find it a rewarding experience to try going out crossdressed. It's one of the surest ways to find out whether the path you're on is the right one. You might find that the experience is not what you thought it would be and that you're really happy just the way you are. You may also find that you want to move in a more feminine direction. Walk a mile in our shoes and see what it feels like.

Hugs,

Freta

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.... It's one of the surest ways to find out whether the path you're on is the right one.....

Hugs,

Freta

It's an experience that will blow your mind the first time you know for sure that you really 'passed' :D The smile will last for days aftewrwards. It may not be easy but it's possible for most people if they're willing to learn and practice. But you may decide to just go as a T-girl and that's OK too but it's not as easy dealing with real life that way :( This screwy world still thinks of gender as a binary when it's NOT! :angry: I was successful with every part of life as a woman except work- my business is decidedly male and I have no other job skills- and that is why I never transitioned. I don't regret that choice, and there's always tomorrow so if life gets me to a place where I can make decent money as a woman who knows what I'll do?

Abrera knows more than her experience would indicate- trust me. It isn't as simple as putting on a show, the world on the other side operates in a totally different way and you lack the lifetime of help and advice the other girls got from friends and female family members about that as they grew up :huh: If you go out there you're going to have a very accelerated learning curve to deal with as you have to figure out just what you said or did wrong that shut you out of the female world again :o If you really want to take the 'easy way' to transitioning find a successful T-girl and ask her advice- you can't beat experience! If you know none, seek a TG support group(not a CD'ers group, that's a whole different ball of wax but they do know a lot about appearance)

To Abrera, don't worry about your height. I've met many GG's that were over 6 ft and some were not all that feminine-looking but they were without a doubt women. How did that happen? They knew who they were and acted accordingly- you know who you are so do the same. Yean, you're going to get a lot of stares and questions about basketball but that's what tall girls have to go through and there's not much you can do about it beyond wise clothing choices- colors, patterns, and cut DO matter :blush: I'm 5-9, right at the upper limit for "average" women's height and vertical stripes put me over the top visually. It's funny but I've always been drawn to tall women :angel_not:

Aurelius, I've been at both ends of the gender spectrum and now find myself living between two points somewhere near the center most of the time now. I can still go to the extremes rapidly- I find myself about to burst out in tears at the sillyist things and two minutes later I'm ready to punch some idiot in the nose :lol: I never know ahead of time how I'll feel about anything, I've just learned to tame the extreme feelings and responses so I can go through life with the least trouble. That doesn't mean I've given in to what others want me to do and be, it just means that I've finally found where I need to be right now- and it can change or I can change it(to a lesser degree). Oh, life- it's SO strange sometimes..........

As long as you're young, explore- experiment(safely)- try new things. Eventually you'll know what it is you want and what you nedd to do to get there in life. The worst regret is saying "I wish I had done that when I was young enough to do it" and knowing that there's no way you can do it now :P

Bettypooh

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Ok, first off let me say. Your gender identity has NOTHING to do with your sexuality. That's something most general psychiatrists don't get. You can be Gay, Straight, Lesbian, Bi, Queer or Questioning and have a confident gender identity.

I think I might be having parallel problems here.

Also you should never make up your mind about your gender in order to pull somebody. Most straight men will not look at a T-Girl in 'that way' mainly because T-Girls unfortunately in society are the lesser equals of the G-Girls. Being Trans and making a decision takes time, you can't just snap into a decision, it takes months of reasoning just to get to a decision, you have to take every argument for and every argument against and weigh them up. You also have to picture yourself in your minds eye. Now, 5 years, 10 years, 30 years, 60 years, they're all variables you have to imagine. If you have ONE shred of doubt, then don't proceed. You're young, you have PLENTY of time to discuss these things. Personally I've been discussing this in my mind off and on for 7 or so years and have absolutely no reservations.

Never assume that life is simple. The human mind is over complex because it is not perfect. That's a problem that creates delusions of self importance with regards to variety. Humanity loves this.

I fully intend to deliberate on the topic for some years. It might take a while for me to develop some idea of how I 'should' be. Today I want to be androgynous, yesterday I wanted to go all the way, and a month ago was a proud man so... How could this sort of conflict even be triggered? The mind boggles.

Engaging in relationships is not in any way connected with my tg desires.

I'm well aware of the extreme changes choosing to do this would precipitate. However, I am quite comfortable with an intervening androgyny stage. It may be best, I think, to be androgynous-leaning-male until I am capable of taking it further (not for some time, as I have said). I feel comfortable about that anyway, but there's a lot of (and should be a lot of) 'wait and see'-ing.

Also, T-Girls despite looked down upon, are the same (well kinda) as G-Girls. It takes a lot of work and emotional strain to switch gender. I'm not sure how I know as I'm still a relative beginner, but never mind. Don't do anything without examining every aspect of your life and seeing it through females eyes. Also expect people to reject you if you do it, expect abandonment and prejudice, because unless you're very lucky, it will happen.

I know... but we have to be who we are. I think there's a very good chance I'll settle on being bi/androgynous but I really can't tell. Everyone knows I'm bi and I expect transgendering slightly would just be taken almost as just fashion by most, fortunately. The situation for transgendering is a hell of a lot better than even 10-15 years ago.

Just for the record, I dislike this political party, but i dislike the oppositions claims that the MEP is useless ebcause of her Trans-ness:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=586084

Frankly I'm as tall as her. I must lose height. One day.

UKIP are okay, at least they aren't the BNP :lol:. Back to Saxony/Denmark, English foreigners! Seriously, country is not an organic nationstate anyway - Northern Ireland is an example of how being 'British' is essentially artificial (yet quite compelling). Give it 100 (even 50) years and the whole world will be having similar issues defining states, since it will probably be ethincally cosmopolitan but with a virtually indistiguishable culture. I can fully understand wanting to slow down - particularly considering many immigrants are not legitimately wanting to become good British subject-citizens - but it would be way to easy for that to become badly corrupted, particularly in expelling 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants (who could do such a thing? monsters!). UKIP are better but economic integration is an inevitable feature of the global age we are irreversably involving ourselves in. Protectionism is nuts, considering it's actually wealthy countries that benefit usually more than the poorer despite losing a couple of jobs. Western Europe is developed and creative enough to make new ones, whatever unfolds.

Yeech! Stormfront! I hope you're not one of those! (Okay if you are, we can agree to disagree or argue to a common point).

Being tall is good. The (t)girl I spoke of was tall. She was popular and very convincing (I'm still not that sure). The majority of tgirls usually look better than ggirls.

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You might find it a rewarding experience to try going out crossdressed.

This could go horribly wrong, at least as things stand. I strongly suspect it would, at least initially. I feel like going androgynous within maculine parameters first. If I look convincingly female then I might crossdress. This is probably going to be a very long process, I'm well aware of that now.

I'm not averse to buying girl's clothes. I've been doing that already.

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I've met many GG's that were over 6 ft and some were not all that feminine-looking but they were without a doubt women.

I would be unusually tall, but I deal with girls from time to time who are even taller. I should be able to manage. It's a weird dichotomy - if you are taller you will be 'hotter' to most guys, but it's more difficult to seem feminine.

As long as you're young, explore- experiment(safely)- try new things. Eventually you'll know what it is you want and what you nedd to do to get there in life. The worst regret is saying "I wish I had done that when I was young enough to do it" and knowing that there's no way you can do it now :P

I plan to make the change over some years. I might not even be androgynous until my mid-20s. But I will work progressively at it, getting as much experience and as much done as is sensible, rest assured.

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"This is your Captain speaking. Please remain seated with your seatbacks in the upright position and your seat belts fastened while Bettypooh hijacks this thread. We'll return to our original flight plans momentarily. Thank You!"

In no uncertain terms for myself it is not.

Abrera, I was never handsome, never pretty never anything but sort of plain and gawky and geeky looking with bad skin and a horrible set of teeth. I have nice eyelashes and (so I've been told) some wonderful eyes- and that's all! Nothing else looks good or even close, yet I've been told that as a woman I look pretty by so many different people that they must see something that I don't. Now that didn't happen overnight, it's occurred constantly over 7-8 years, and it didn't happen until I learned how to use my makeup wisely ;) Many TG's over-do it trying to hide their 'bad points' but all that does is make you look yukky and overdone :( Use minimal makeup and highlight your best feature, then that's what everyone else will see and you'll be prettier than you can ever imagine :D I use so little makeup that other than my mascara and lipcolor you can hardly tell I'm wearing it. My best friend who has a great eye for color barely notices the difference but somehow it all adds up to 'woman' at first glance :) and it stays that way afterwards because of how I feel, which comes out in how I act and move, and then I feel pretty- even if only prettier than I am as a boy :lol: Like all women some days I just don't feel pretty at all but I always try to look my best as a girl B)

I've seen 3 good beauty consultants- one a nice Mary Kay lady, one was a gay Mac cosmetics consultant with an awesome reputation, and one an independant selling a few different high-priced cosmetic lines. They all told me that the advice I had gotten from friends and a few "TG specialist" consultants was all wrong, and they all set me up almost identically to each other- no way that was a coincidence :blush: Those who specialize in TG's often go too far since that's what most TG's want and these people are the ones who pay that kind of consultant's bills. After giving in to what they told me I began passing on a regular basis- something that was sporadic before then. I thought there was no way such a gentle use of make-up could do anything but make me look more like a guy but was I ever wrong (and gladly so!).

Go find a women's make-up specialist and see if they can make as big a difference for you as they did with me. At first you might think they're nutso too but give their look a chance and see what happens- betcha you end up getting more compliments than ever before :wub: After enough of that you'll find yourslf smiling whenever the 'oldies station' plays Caroleen Beatty's song "You're only as pretty as you feel"- and you'll feel and be prettier for it :thumbsup: Pretty comes from the inside out and the right makeup only enhances what's underneath it. Be pretty because you are pretty!

"This is your Captain again. We tossed Bettypooh out the cockpit window while she was distracted powdering her too-oily nose for the third time in 3 minutes. We will now return you to our regularly scheduled programming. Thank You!"

Bettypooh

(part-time woman and occasional thread hijacker :ninja: )

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I think I might be having parallel problems here. I fully intend to deliberate on the topic for some years. It might take a while for me to develop some idea of how I 'should' be. Today I want to be androgynous, yesterday I wanted to go all the way, and a month ago was a proud man so... How could this sort of conflict even be triggered? The mind boggles. Engaging in relationships is not in any way connected with my tg desires.

I'm glad you'll be going slow Aurelius :) For most of us contemplating a total switching of gender roles, what we want is more like the "flipping of a switch" as a recent poll here put it. I know I was 95% toward transitioning within the first year I opened myself and my soul to see who the real me was inside ^_^ It was five more years and 4% closer when I came to decide that transitioning wasn't in my best interest at this time. I could have done it and still might, but not as my life is right now. There are hundreds of reasons for me to go ahead and only a few against, but those few are vital to my well-being right now :o I saw the therapist, I saw the shrink, I passed and lived as a woman, and I becamea part of the TG world. Everyone gave me the go-ahead- most even said they'd never seen anyone more right for it than me B) I finally came to realize that this choice was mine alone, and it was only then that I saw just how big the impact would be on me and the rest of my life :huh: It was the hardest decision I ever made- to give up a very possible dream for the probability of a boring existance wondering if I've chosen correctly every minute of every day afterwards.

The only things that keep me sane are allowing myself as much 'feminine' expression as I need and opening up other chambers of my heart for a good look(like diapers et al. :wub: ) and knowing that should the need arise I am quite prepared to 'step across the gender divide' permanantly :rolleyes: In the meantime I'm all over the map of gender and to a lesser degree sexuality :fish_h4h: A "seeker" of sorts, a very unusual seeker who over halway through life got tired of trying to be what others wanted me to be and decided that the rest of my life it belongs to me and I'll do with it what I want to after my human needs are met :angel_not: You're much younger than me- you have plenty of time to seek and find what you want and need, and you're smart enough to not rush into any uncorrectable mistakes like I almost did. Life is about you, life is about love, life is about trying things just because you feel like doing it at that point in time. If you're careful you can try almost anything before you decide to make it permanant and still turn around if you decide otherwise. Go slowly and you'll do very well.

Live life as it suits you my friend ;)

Bettypooh

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Abrera, I was never handsome, never pretty never anything but sort of plain and gawky and geeky looking with bad skin and a horrible set of teeth. I have nice eyelashes and (so I've been told) some wonderful eyes- and that's all! Nothing else looks good or even close, yet I've been told that as a woman I look pretty by so many different people that they must see something that I don't. Now that didn't happen overnight, it's occurred constantly over 7-8 years, and it didn't happen until I learned how to use my makeup wisely ;) Many TG's over-do it trying to hide their 'bad points' but all that does is make you look yukky and overdone :( Use minimal makeup and highlight your best feature, then that's what everyone else will see and you'll be prettier than you can ever imagine :D I use so little makeup that other than my mascara and lipcolor you can hardly tell I'm wearing it. My best friend who has a great eye for color barely notices the difference but somehow it all adds up to 'woman' at first glance :) and it stays that way afterwards because of how I feel, which comes out in how I act and move, and then I feel pretty- even if only prettier than I am as a boy :lol: Like all women some days I just don't feel pretty at all but I always try to look my best as a girl B)

I think I can work with what I have if I decide to go through with it - not for a while, I think; I'm getting counselling soon but I think, to be honest, I already have myself mostly worked out, at least for the short-medium term. Bi androgyny is a logical and fulfilling way to deal with where I'm at. I have a myriad of other difficulties, so it isn't a huge priority, even though I strongly feel to pursue it.

My eyes are great and I would not have them any other way. My chin used to be hard and disjointed some years back but it has softened up a lot now. My lips are good and definitely a strong point. My cheeks are rounded and have potential. It's only my eyebrows and nose that really wreck it. I have mildly bushy ~Scottish-Russian eyebrows that just don't look right (I'm sure I could come up with something, though) and my nose is relatively large and a little crooked (not so easy). For the time being I have cut my hair short until I decide what to do with it (major - I'm thinking of dying it toned purple, medium length, which people I've been talking with have said would look good, for what I'm going for). My feet are a little too masculine, another problem, but my legs I can work with. My hips are much to narrow for skirts, but in this day and age plenty of ggirls don't bother with them. I'd prefer a good pair of jeans any day.

Transitioning isn't seriously on the agenda as yet, but I really want to experiment, which makes sense. I'll keep you posted on how counselling goes.

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Just back from conselling. It confirmed my suspicions that male-leaning androgyny is the best solution for the next few years, at least. I identify slightly more with being male, although I have a significant feminine side also (oddly 'compatible' or 'fitting' in an eclectic but likeable kind of way). I may have overreacted a little, but at least it is resolved, for now. I still consider transitioning a possibility but it is not something I will be pursuing much, although I will certainly think about it in the few years ahead. I just want to look, feel and express myself as I am, within open and free parameters.

Odd thing is that in thinking about it, I feel much better about my body image and self-confidence, which was a little shaky. Anyhow, thanks for the advice.

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How'd you get counselling that fast?

My uni is very good with counselling. They've recently expanded it because a couple of surveys showed people were way more depressed and troubled than expected. Also, I'm on swot-week so I have a little time

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OMG Uni counselling. I could have that, but they're more clueless than NHS counselling.

The extent of my Unis counselling is "my essays are stressing me out."

Ours was too, but got them to fix it up by popular request. A lot of people are still nervous about discussing a lot of things (I sure was, and reviewed privacy policies etc beforehand). Our counsellors are inexperienced but ready to deal with most things. Turns out my issues, at least in the short term, are not so serious. Apparently plenty of guys have much worse difficulties than I do, which is reassuring.

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  • 1 month later...

okay so i see my self as bi but does watching "gay porn" count as being bi? i mean i get off on it more than i do strait porn now if i see two guys fucking ill get a hard on real fast like now ive got a porn going and cant get a hard on but if i put in one of the gay ones i have ill cum like hell ... and also does wanting to wear panties count as cross dressing i mean when im not wearing diapers im in panties at least as long as i can be and i have three pair of my own now and sometimes i wear a bra i have now i mean is this cross dressing ? i mean i understand wearing panties and all to help masturbate but still ...

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okay so i see my self as bi but does watching "gay porn" count as being bi? i mean i get off on it more than i do strait porn now if i see two guys fucking ill get a hard on real fast like now ive got a porn going and cant get a hard on but if i put in one of the gay ones i have ill cum like hell ... and also does wanting to wear panties count as cross dressing i mean when im not wearing diapers im in panties at least as long as i can be and i have three pair of my own now and sometimes i wear a bra i have now i mean is this cross dressing ? i mean i understand wearing panties and all to help masturbate but still ...

What does this have to do with the OP's posts? Why not just make your own topic?

~ moogle

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Here, I tend to completly agree with Abrera ( goes to the phone and contacts all head shrinks I know - to see if they can fix me) Everyone, no matter what genitals they are born with, it is your mind and your feelings that determine what sex/gender you are. To throw a spanner in this simple choice, your mind/feelings change on a second by second basis. It is unfair to yourself, to disreguard the other sex/gender feelings based on a percieved interest in another person. Without talking to that person, and fully exploring that persons interests, the displayed sex/gender could be oppisite to what you and he/she expects. I will simplify this, and use the following terms.

M = male

G = by birth genitalia

F = female

B= by choice/believe/feelings

These combine to be MB = male by belief and FG = female by birth/genitalia.

If a FG is intrested in a MG or a FG, and the FG decides to act FB, the MG may actually be FB or MB. It is not until M? and F? or M? and M? or F? and F? communicate, does either know what to expect / how to behave, and the unknows become known.

Note: I am trying to write this as generic as possible, not favoring male or female form. Also, the 'G' note is for birth genitalia, despite what the person decides to alter.

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I had another session and it seems resolved that I should just be a really effeminate guy and go with whatever is most practical. Gender identity issues seem resolved, or at least latent enough for me to carry on just fine :D

I guess I've missed keeping up with this thread- sorry!

I am glad you've come to a resolution for now (and this is one of those things where some resolutions are temporary). The main thing is to be OK to yourself- no matter who and/or what you are then you're OK as long as you're not hurting someone else in the process (which you aren't). Everyone has issues and the smartest people are those who recognize them then work them out. Those who don't see their issues or refuse to believe they have any issues are not intelligent enough to want around me. I think the key is that once you learn that there are people who can help you to a better life and then let them do that you will begin to see the nasty reality that most people needed more help than you did and they'll never get it on their own accord which is sad.

To pick up on another reply who asked if wearing panties makes him a crossdresser I say the answer is inside of you already. Seek the answer and be willing to accept it whatever it is. And I'll add this bit of wisdom: If you are a crossdresser (or gay or bi or TG or whatever) does it really matter? Really, does it? If that's who or what you are it's not bad, there's nothing wrong with it, many people are like you, and you're only making things worse by worrying about it. You are who you are so go be the best you that you can be whoever that is. As long as you're not out to harm innocent people then there's nothing wrong with being yourself.

Being TG to the degree I am myself I find myself curious about gender in other people, how they deal with it, and how their choices of how to deal with it works out for them. If I were younger I'd probably make that topic into a career. I have found that leaving the gender 'norm' usually brings issues of sexuality along with it as you find that you're not totally one way or another. Again there's nothing wrong with that, it's just something I find interesting as I learn about my own self by seeing how others are. Should fate lead me that way I will give life a chance however it manifests itself so I will know for certain if that's what I want from it. If doing that doesn't settle my issues then at least I will know which way to go to find the solutions I seek.

Bettypooh

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What does this have to do with the OP's posts? Why not just make your own topic?

~ moogle

why have multiple posts on one topic w hen we all ready have one lol and not to clutter up the forum .....

Is it not fun to 'throw spanners in the works' occasionally? If we all behaved (can't - we are all babies ) it would be boring and monotonous.

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