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Surgery To Become Incontinent.


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They are either jealous or safety police who like to try and control others.

Now what in the fuck do I have to be jealous about?? I've been incontinent for the past eight years. Trust me when I say IT SUCKS. As for me being the safety police, that is complete and utter bullshit. If I was so damn cautious, I would not be doing the potentially dangerous job that I am doing now.

Don't forget, a lost of westerners (and especially Americans) don't know squat about geography

I'm so pissed I don't know what to say to this crack. That comment is fucking out of line. That is all I am going to say.

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Unfortunately the comment about American's knowledge of Geography and the state of medical care elsewhere in the world is painfully accurate. As an American myself, it is often really embarassing how a huge percentage of our population is amazingly clueless.....

Its not something to get angry about......but more likely depressed! If we don't work on our education systems we'll be the 2nd world country!

As for the topic of the post....I can understand the desire to be incontinent but not the desire to permanently damage oneself. I didn't read anywhere from the poster that he HAD tried being cath'd for many days at a time to ensure he's lived days in the shoes of someone incontinent. I think that is the best advice here.

I had a UTI that made me incontinent for a week....it sucked....and I like the fantasy of being incontinent! But fantasy is what it is.....reality bites!

It is also VERY likely that the patient will need catheters for many days or weeks while the swelling goes down. If not cath'd, you won't be able to urinate, and you'll end up in the ER in a very dangerous condition!

Do please simulate this before making it permanent!

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I'm so pissed I don't know what to say to this crack. That comment is fucking out of line. That is all I am going to say.

Meh, I don't care if you are pissed. I'm rather surprised you are. I guess that means you don't keep up with the papers or new in your country.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/02/geog.test/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12591413/

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=11608

I could go on... but then it starts to look mean.

I think being pissed is probably the right reaction. Just not at me. Rather, at your educators and politicians for allowing the education system to fall apart.

InD

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Meh, I don't care if you are pissed. I'm rather surprised you are. I guess that means you don't keep up with the papers or new in your country.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/02/geog.test/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12591413/

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=11608

I could go on... but then it starts to look mean.

I think being pissed is probably the right reaction. Just not at me. Rather, at your educators and politicians for allowing the education system to fall apart.

InD

Right. I would really remember news articles from two and five years ago. You couldn't find anything more current, like within the past six months or so?

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Right. I would really remember news articles from two and five years ago. You couldn't find anything more current, like within the past six months or so?

I was AP. In my geography class, not only did we learn about different countries, but we also went continent by continent and had to be able to identify every country in the world simply by location. I don't have to look at a map. I know where Thailand is. I have that map burned into my brain. It's just east of Cambodia and Vietnam. By the way, what's the capital of Thailand? *punches a random person in the junk* Bangkok!

So, what I'm saying is that the general consensus of the level of education in our country doesn't speak for everyone. There are some people, like myself, who have a good grasp of knowledge and education and excel above the majority.

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Guest Pampers-Champ

I don't know how this evolved into a debate about American geography and world knowledge.

Anyway, I felt it necessary to sign up to give my opinion.

Basically, you're putting yourself in a really dumb position if you go ahead with this, Goerge.

Even if (and that's a big if) you get to Thailand and they do the op, and it goes without any hitch AND you don't develop any infections... even as you admit yourself, you're going to "have to see [your] GP and explain my incontinence".

Your doctor has a duty of care to do the tests.

And they will realise something is very wrong with you if you don't let them examine you.

You think your GP is going to be like "oh, you're too embarrased? that's fine, I'll just let it go".

Plus you won't be able to get any free nappies on the NHS if you don't let them do the tests.

So as well as the $7k you'll fork out, you'll also have to pay for nappies, every day, for the rest of your life.

As well as that you're likely to be refused further care if you don't co-operate, and a psychological assessment will be ordered.

Oops!

Or, you could let them examine you, and your doctor will see what you've done to your body.

Or if you ever do ANYTHING that means you're admitted to hospital - like a car accident - and they examine you, then they'll find out.

And if they can't find a reason on your notes as to why you've had an external sphincterotomy, and you can't provide a reason, then guess what happens?

You're probably going to be diagnosed with body dysmorphic disorder, and sectioned!

Have a whole lot of fun with that on your NHS record!

And EVERYONE knows being sectioned is great fun!

But if you're happy to take the initial risks with the operation, if you think you'll be ok with the long-term consequences, if you can afford fresh nappies every day for the rest of your life, and if you aren't EVER going to do anything that might mean you need to be examined by a doctor, or you're never going to be unconscious or admitted to hospital EVER, then go right ahead!

Or, you know, just grow the hell up, and be sensible?

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I don't know how this evolved into a debate about American geography and world knowledge.

Anyway, I felt it necessary to sign up to give my opinion.

Basically, you're putting yourself in a really dumb position if you go ahead with this, Goerge.

Even if (and that's a big if) you get to Thailand and they do the op, and it goes without any hitch AND you don't develop any infections... even as you admit yourself, you're going to "have to see [your] GP and explain my incontinence".

Your doctor has a duty of care to do the tests.

And they will realise something is very wrong with you if you don't let them examine you.

You think your GP is going to be like "oh, you're too embarrased? that's fine, I'll just let it go".

Plus you won't be able to get any free nappies on the NHS if you don't let them do the tests.

So as well as the $7k you'll fork out, you'll also have to pay for nappies, every day, for the rest of your life.

As well as that you're likely to be refused further care if you don't co-operate, and a psychological assessment will be ordered.

Oops!

Or, you could let them examine you, and your doctor will see what you've done to your body.

Or if you ever do ANYTHING that means you're admitted to hospital - like a car accident - and they examine you, then they'll find out.

And if they can't find a reason on your notes as to why you've had an external sphincterotomy, and you can't provide a reason, then guess what happens?

You're probably going to be diagnosed with body dysmorphic disorder, and sectioned!

Have a whole lot of fun with that on your NHS record!

And EVERYONE knows being sectioned is great fun!

But if you're happy to take the initial risks with the operation, if you think you'll be ok with the long-term consequences, if you can afford fresh nappies every day for the rest of your life, and if you aren't EVER going to do anything that might mean you need to be examined by a doctor, or you're never going to be unconscious or admitted to hospital EVER, then go right ahead!

Or, you know, just grow the hell up, and be sensible?

Very well said. But, I really don't think he knows how to be sensible. You've seen all of the replies to this thread. A good portion of the replies say to not do it. Way more than the ones that say do it. Do you think he will listen and take the advice that has been given to him? I very highly doubt it.

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I really do appreciate everybody's replies no matter how unhelpful they where. I know wanting to be permanently incontinent may be perceived as

extremely foolish and extreme but after years of contemplation and a strong willingness to achieve total incontinence by any means necessary I have concluded this is the only safe way without damaging other parts of my body, I would of done anything impulsively to archive incontinence only to regret it later, the thoughts I was having where truly insane which I'm reluctant to say here. If not for this procedure I would of done somthing truly stupid.

I AM going to finally become incontinent after all these years with a simple procedure. I have a date set early November whith the best intersex surgeon in Thailand and with in the best equipped hospital. Unexpectedly I have not had to disclose too much information after explaining why I want the procedure done, only that I have Body Integrity Identity Disorder and if not for this procedure I will find other unconventional and possible harmful methods other then this surgery.

George:

Let me put it to you this way: If you want to be incontinent, just put on a diaper and never pee anyplace else...by mid November, you won't have much control over your peeing....and you can save all those thousands of pounds....and if the shoe doesn't fit, you don't have to wear it. If it does, you may nonetheless find yourself saving the expense of surgery...since you are already peeing without control...

Wanting incontinence isn't at all the same thing as having it, anymore than wanting to be the opposite sex is the same thing as being the opposite sex...this is why, in this country, people are required to live as their desired sex for a year or so before the doctors are willing to do surgery. You should apply the same high standard of care to yourself....simply try being incontinent full-time for a year or so before doing something permanent like this. On the medical incontinence side, there have been several people who have regretted the decision to wear diapers permanently, some after a few years of it.

Both hypnosis and catheters are also worth considering. They are both easier methods than surgery of giving yourself permission to be incontinent, or to be incontinent when you feel like it, which is what it sounds like you really need.

As for surgery, you might want to discuss it with your doctor, off the record...find out how he feels about it...if he or she over-reacts, you should be able to switch doctors, citing personal incompatibility. You Dr should appreciate your honesty and maturity, and may be able to help you avoid being labeled a nutcase.

*********

I'm firmly in the camp of wanting a choice ... noting that hiking (chafing) and canoeing (easier to just pee in the water, and dunk your shirt in for a/c) aren't terribly compatible with diapers, and they become work after a while ... and taking care of a rash is trivial, just stop wearing diapers for awhile.

Surgery is getting scarier...what with the multiply resistant staph and aids in the blood supply....

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I thought we agreed to let the topic die. Oh well. *shrugs*

Edit: and I realize that by posting another message on it, I'm, myself, keeping the topic alive. *knocks himself out with a baseball bat*

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I thought we agreed to let the topic die. Oh well. *shrugs*

Edit: and I realize that by posting another message on it, I'm, myself, keeping the topic alive. *knocks himself out with a baseball bat*

I know I said I wasn't gonna post anymore but the anti-American comments are just too off base. Seriously InD you are from Canada, enough said. I'm sick of people like you who have been so saturated with so much liberal media bullshit you don't understand any other side of politics. Also, I love how you guys referenced NBC which is also notably a disgusting liberal sesspool as they actually want the US to fall apart. Did you also hear about GE, who ownes NBC, is quite quickly becoming bankrupt because people are growing tired of their biased? You want actual non-biased political coverage then stop feeding into the crap the teachers at your schools spew. Funny part of it all is that they think the only way to promote their nationalism is by bashing another country. I just wish you would research situations fully instead of going in half-assed and butthurt.

Canada was occupied by the British in the American Revolution and was a haven for COWARDS during the Vietnam Conflict who were too afraid to fight for their country, so they ran. Your country was founded, and is, maintained mostly by weaklings and ill-informed children that are willing to make fun of anybody else to make themselves feel better. Fact about Canada is this, NOT EVERYBODY IN CANADA FEELS THE SAME WAY AS YOU PEOPLE IN ONTARIO AND QUEBEC. Best part is you can't even keep your country together with the sudo-french half breeds wanting to become their own nation and not wanting to participate with Canada as a whole. America is different than you are, so if you don't like it, then there is no reason to mouth off to us, piss in your own weaties.

Also, most of you only hate us because "zomg ur prez iz liek a warmonger n gayh8er!" Firstly, Pres. Bush is in a power position and is up on a pedistal so feel free to say what you want about him, really, it doesn't matter at all. Secondly, you don't like "Us Americans" full political spectrum of politics, go cry; seriously, don't be jealous because we consider both sides and aren't sitting with blinders on to one side. Third, what has Canada done since it was established to make you guys so high and mighty? Last time I checked you havn't won a war on your own, done too much in the International Community, helped many countries in a time of need, and havn't done much of anything outstanding besides give us Bill Shatner and Mike Meyers. What have we done that has made the US outstanding? Lets check here on a VERY short list: WW1, WW2, Cold War, Iraq, LOTS OF HELP TO AFRICA, Westernization and Modernization of MANY countries. So if I'm correct, which I am, the US has kept you free while you sit there and bitch about "us stupid Americans." Also if you feed into the "I have hope that we can change hope for change so that change will hope for change" crap then you REALLY REALLY REALLY need to educate yourselves. If you understand what and who I am talking about then good for you, if not then go die in a fire. Oh ya, I also forgot a "yes we can" in there.

For those of you that also stated "so sue happy you Americans" you chill out. In the US, yes, we have many people that don't understand alot outside of their own personal field of vision. Also yes, we have many people that want to get rich as soon as possible by any means. But that is not the majority of our country by far. Our American brothers and sisters who are more ignorant than what you might find acceptable might make us look bad, but because we are who we are, not only do we not care, but we accept them because in the end they do the right thing! I am a card-carrying member of Mensa International and I am absolutely sure that I am smarter than you when it comes to any subject ESPECIALLY Geography. Don't reply to this so I don't have to waste my time on you anymore; however, I know you and some of the other Canadians are going to look at this and post back that "omfg i r 2 ofended bi dis cause i go to mensa 2 n i c4n plA chess liek u 2!" Dude, just dont hit replay. Thanks.

Point of all of this? InD think twice before you start bashing other countries. Bye

P.S. George I still don't think it is a good idea but have a good vaca anyways ;)

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<sigh> Geography. I can say I'm not particularly astute in the field of geography myself, however, as for bashing any particular country. Knock it off.

When they aliens come to attack us, we'll have more important things to worry about.

Know this - when you attack someones home, they will defend it. It does not matter what country that person is from, it's a bad move and causes flaming.

And finally, I, personally, do not expect anyone to know much about geography outside of their own habitat. It would be unnatural. Yes, most countries could tell us more about America than many Americans, but consider that for a moment. What does that say about America, if everyone's so darned interested?

I promise that I will make no attack against any country (with the exception of communist countries, it's my civic duty) and I will expect that same courtesy in return. I also expect no apology for any of the previous attacks that may have been made because, doubtless, you have already been retaliated against for it. In the future, though, do keep these words in mind.

POWER TO THE HUMAN RACE! (except those dirty commies)

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<sigh> Geography. I can say I'm not particularly astute in the field of geography myself, however, as for bashing any particular country. Knock it off.

When they aliens come to attack us, we'll have more important things to worry about.

Know this - when you attack someones home, they will defend it. It does not matter what country that person is from, it's a bad move and causes flaming.

And finally, I, personally, do not expect anyone to know much about geography outside of their own habitat. It would be unnatural. Yes, most countries could tell us more about America than many Americans, but consider that for a moment. What does that say about America, if everyone's so darned interested?

I promise that I will make no attack against any country (with the exception of communist countries, it's my civic duty) and I will expect that same courtesy in return. I also expect no apology for any of the previous attacks that may have been made because, doubtless, you have already been retaliated against for it. In the future, though, do keep these words in mind.

POWER TO THE HUMAN RACE! (except those dirty commies)

Well said Singner, at last someone brings some sense to the thread.

I've travelled all over this planet and I've never seen a country full of all good or all bad people. I've met some real assholes in every country I've been too, but then again I've met some really warm and welcoming people in the same countries (yes, even the Communist countries Singner, lol.) To make a statement like "Most Canadians/Americans/British think this or are like that" is complete garbage. To even suggest that a whole nation thinks with more or less one mind is too sweeping a statement. It just shows the uneducated viewpoint of the person saying it.

Another thing that shows a persons lack of knowledge is to suggest that Canadians don't fight wars. I've never been to Canada (although I would like to visit) so I have no reason to side with them. However, I have been to France many times, and if you were to see (as I have done) the huge cemeteries full of Canadian war dead at Vimy Ridge (WW1) and Normandy (WW2) then you just may revise that view.

Beth

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NOT EVERYBODY IN CANADA FEELS THE SAME WAY AS YOU PEOPLE IN ONTARIO AND QUEBEC.

Last time I checked you havn't won a war on your own

That was well said Beth and Singner, however, Beth, I believe I said this (see above) and made no indication they all think the same or havn't fought. There are many good people in Canada, unfortunitly, the ones here think they are superior to others. Many Canadians have sacrificed their lives and I salute them for doing what was right. The ones I am referring to in this thread are the people that would rather die instead of lifting a finger to defend themselves or help others.

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guess going to keep this short and simple

to the 19 year old that calls him self a vet

you have no idea what you are even talking about

at 19 years old you have no idea what the world was like back then, during the time span for viet nam

many of the people that left to go to other places made a hard choice to leave friends and family's because they were against the war.

bush on the other hand just had his daddy get him out of going and he was a bigger coward then the ones the gave up a lot to cross the boarders.

i have no problems with the one that left the country

the problem i have are with the ones that turned there backs on the people in the service with them and ran away even if there daddy got the out of it

and i have a problem with a government that turned its back on the ones that did server and did not come back the same as they left

in viet man we did not suffer from PTSD but the ones suffering from it now get paid

you have no idea what is was like to be a 18 year old and to be walking down a street with a friend that was home sick and saw a little girl crying and reach down to pick her up as you keep walking,

or the time spent trying to find the parts of him to send home to his new wife and dau

you have no idea how to spend your 19 th birthday confirming your 350 kill in less then 6 months

you have no idea on the feeling of going to what you called home then only to find the VC had gone thought the area and killed all of the people there, even the nuns at the orphange or picking up what was left of a little girl with cp that in less then 10 days would have been going to your friends back in the us to take care of till you returned from there

you have no idea of the night mare you live with the rest of your life

i never in 3 tours killed a child or baby knowly but to others that stayed home it was a common name to be called, to be turned away from jobs because you severed your country

get a va education package that was a joke on good for 10 years today this day i still can not stay in a closed area and do you think the government cares

we have a person that was a POW but no one has addressed the subject of PTSD with him

oh yes ex navy seal black ops, spog

oh yes in diapers from age 19 due to friendly fire but they sure would not tell me who did it so i could be friendly with him

really bad bad to be shoot down by the US army going into a base that was not there in a plane the VC did not have

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Wanting incontinence isn't at all the same thing as having it, anymore than wanting to be the opposite sex is the same thing as being the opposite sex...this is why, in this country, people are required to live as their desired sex for a year or so before the doctors are willing to do surgery. You should apply the same high standard of care to yourself....simply try being incontinent full-time for a year or so before doing something permanent like this. On the medical incontinence side, there have been several people who have regretted the decision to wear diapers permanently, some after a few years of it.

Hi,

That´s a good camparison. You should wear a diaper in EVERY situation, e.g. work, relationship, doctors´ visits, sports, socializing, hot weather, etc.

Babygirl Kvetinka

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guess going to keep this short and simple

to the 19 year old that calls him self a vet

you have no idea what you are even talking about

at 19 years old you have no idea what the world was like back then, during the time span for viet nam

many of the people that left to go to other places made a hard choice to leave friends and family's because they were against the war.

bush on the other hand just had his daddy get him out of going and he was a bigger coward then the ones the gave up a lot to cross the boarders.

i have no problems with the one that left the country

the problem i have are with the ones that turned there backs on the people in the service with them and ran away even if there daddy got the out of it

and i have a problem with a government that turned its back on the ones that did server and did not come back the same as they left

in viet an we did not suffer from PTSD but the ones suffering from it now get paid

you have no idea what is was like to be a 18 year old and to be walking down a street with a friend that was home sick and saw a little girl crying and reach down to pick her up as you keep walking,

or the time spent trying to find the parts of him to send home to his new wife and dau

you have no idea how to spend your 19 th birthday confirming your 350 kill in less then 6 months

you have no idea on the feeling of going to what you called home then only to find the VC had gone thought the area and killed all of the people there, even the nuns at the orphange or picking up what was left of a little girl with cp that in less then 10 days would have been going to your friends back in the us to take care of till you returned from there

you have no idea of the night mare you live with the rest of your life

i never in 3 tours killed a child or baby knowly but to others that stayed home it was a common name to be called, to be turned away from jobs because you severed your country

get a va education package that was a joke on good for 10 years today this day i still can not stay in a closed area and do you think the government cares

we have a person that was a POW but no one has addressed the subject of PTSD with him

oh yes ex navy seal black ops, spog

oh yes in diapers from age 19 due to friendly fire but they sure would not tell me who did it so i could be friendly with him

really bad bad to be shoot down by the US army going into a base that was not there in a plane the VC did not have

Of course here we go with the dipshits who can't come up with anything good to get me with so they pull the "omgs u r 2 yung wut u no?" A lot of people went into that Conflict and fought well, same with WW1 and WW2. The difference with Vietnam was you had too many people in outerspace on drugs so they would, disgustingly, spit on soldiers coming home which is bullshit. I don't care what your military experience is and your post wasn't even worth fully reading becuase obviously it has been a long time since you practiced grammar.

you have no idea of the night mare you live with the rest of your life

Um, last time I check you weren't me so you have NO idea what I have been through stupidass. Don't try to tell me what I have experienced or what I "have no idea about" because believe me you are way off.

bush on the other hand just had his daddy get him out of going and he was a bigger coward then the ones the gave up a lot to cross the boarders.

Hmm last time I checked that wasn't true, that was a rumor that had been started by the presidential campain of Sen. Kerry because he was too ashamed of his own war record. In case you forgot, he was ashamed because when he was there he shot himself in the foot to get out and get a purple heart. But let me give you a chance here, If you can post on here undeniable proof of that then we'll all believe you ok. Also I guess you didn't read my original post very well because no one cares what you say about the pres., I just had to comment on that part because you need to pull your head out of your ass.

I, and many other Americans, DO have problems with the cowards that ran to Canada because of the fact that they ran out on their country. In WW1 and WW2 you had many kids go to war and come home and raise families. When did soldiers start having PTSD? My Grandfather was a marine at Iwo Jima at the age of 13, he faked his birth certificate; but, he came home, got married, and raised a family. In WW2 and Korea soldiers didn't have PTSD, in the Gulf War and Iraq soldiers havn't had PTSD. So why was it so prevelant with you? Could PTSD have been so prevelant for Veterans of Vietnam because of the hippy peace movement (retards) back home and they didn't want to look bad? Once some people heard about it then more followed. Atleast that is MY THEORY about PTSD. Rickibrat if you didn't understand that, it means that is my opinion and I am not stating it as fact, I could be completely wrong, unlike yourself that likes to say anything you want obviously. If my country needs me in another great war, I would be happy to go because I am doing what is right, not illegally running to another country where my cowardice is accepted. Also, when in my post did I say that specifically I was a vet? Oh I see, you are trying to make me look bad again by making stuff up.

Get over it and yourself, you aren't that cool and no one really cares about what you did or had to do, and stop bitchen about it, it only makes you look worse. I'm sick today so I would love to spend more time on you but I'm going to leave it here. If you want me to rip you to shreds reply to me so we can all see how gramatically incompetant you are, otherwise, save us all the time and don't.

P.S. I'm not the grammar police, I'm more like the Grammar Citizen Patrol. *serious face* -_-

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Get over it and yourself, you aren't that cool and no one really cares about what you did or had to do, and stop bitchen

Take your own advice. Please. I'm sure you'd like everyone to think you are smart, pointing out grammatical errors and flouting people with your IQ, but all I see is a talking(or I guess typing) asshole. You may even be right about many of the things you are saying and I may even agree with you on some points, but anything you are trying to say is not getting across to anyone because you are just too rude and self-centered.

P.S. Goerge, I also think the surgery is a bad Idea, there are cheaper, less painful, and less permanent ways to achieve your goals such as the 12-month plan posted in another thread of this forum.

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Take your own advice. Please. I'm sure you'd like everyone to think you are smart, pointing out grammatical errors and flouting people with your IQ, but all I see is a talking(or I guess typing) asshole. You may even be right about many of the things you are saying and I may even agree with you on some points, but anything you are trying to say is not getting across to anyone because you are just too rude and self-centered.

Um ok I don't know what the purpose of you writing to me is to be honest. I don't care at all what you think of me and I am proving that not all Americans are dumb. Compared to how much I care about a lot of people on this board ya it would look like I am very rude and self-centered. I'm not in the business of being "nice" to people when they act like they are above others and think they can say whatever they want about another country. If you agree with me why say anything at all?

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well tell me more when you have grown up

as far as bush it is a proven fact in fact to go one better he missed his unit going to viet nam and his daddy got him out of trouble

this is a fact i can put you in touch with people from his unit.

as far as the other person not sure what you mean by his war record i knew him there he was on the boats and did a good job

but at 19 you are still very wet behind the ears and need to go up

and study the facts more

not sure what hippies have to do with PTSD

many of the others that went to CA cam back and did 2 years service in other places or other ways,

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Funny part of it all is that they think the only way to promote their nationalism is by bashing another country. I just wish you would research situations fully instead of going in half-assed and butthurt.

Canada was occupied by the British in the American Revolution and was a haven for COWARDS during the Vietnam Conflict who were too afraid to fight for their country, so they ran. Your country was founded, and is, maintained mostly by weaklings and ill-informed children that are willing to make fun of anybody else to make themselves feel better. Fact about Canada is this, NOT EVERYBODY IN CANADA FEELS THE SAME WAY AS YOU PEOPLE IN ONTARIO AND QUEBEC. Best part is you can't even keep your country together with the sudo-french half breeds wanting to become their own nation and not wanting to participate with Canada as a whole. America is different than you are, so if you don't like it, then there is no reason to mouth off to us, piss in your own weaties.

So... Are you the pot or the kettle?

I don't live in Quebec or Ontario. I don't believe that all Americans are uneducated and self-centered. That being said, I think that it is people like you that perpetuate the stereotype. The word is Pseudo (not sudo). They are not half-breeds, they are Quebecois. Attacking race and creed is not respectable. Also worth noting, and perhaps as it is not such a populated state, you have forgotten about the Alaskan separation movement. I realize that this doesn't threaten to tear your country apart to the core, but it does make a difference.

...what has Canada done since it was established to make you guys so high and mighty? Last time I checked you havn't won a war on your own, done too much in the International Community, helped many countries in a time of need...

...What have we done that has made the US outstanding? Lets check here on a VERY short list: WW1, WW2, Cold War, Iraq, LOTS OF HELP TO AFRICA, Westernization and Modernization of MANY countries....

Educate yourself, young grasshopper. Have you ever traveled overseas? Europe perhaps? Hundreds of thousands of Canadians (and Americans and British and Australians and scores of Allied and enemy troops) lie dead for a causes of WWI and WWII. Canadians are well respected in western Europe for their role in the liberation movement. The USA did not join the second world war until they were attacked on their own soil. THAT is why some Europeans hold such a low opinion of your country. Why do you think that American backpackers sew Canadian flags to their backpacks when traveling overseas? To get (pseudo)respect.

...In the US, yes, we have many people that don't understand alot outside of their own personal field of vision.

Pot, meet Kettle.

Also yes, we have many people that want to get rich as soon as possible by any means. But that is not the majority of our country by far. Our American brothers and sisters who are more ignorant than what you might find acceptable might make us look bad, but because we are who we are, not only do we not care, but we accept them because in the end they do the right thing! I am a card-carrying member of Mensa International and I am absolutely sure that I am smarter than you when it comes to any subject ESPECIALLY Geography. Don't reply to this so I don't have to waste my time on you anymore; however, I know you and some of the other Canadians are going to look at this and post back that "omfg i r 2 ofended bi dis cause i go to mensa 2 n i c4n plA chess liek u 2!" Dude, just dont hit replay. Thanks.

I agree. Sometimes the minority outshine the majority. I am sure that your nation appreciates the perpetuation of said stereotype. Good play on the Mensa card, by the way. When did they lower the standards of acceptance?

Point of all of this? InD think twice before you start bashing other countries. Bye

P.S. I'm not the grammar police, I'm more like the Grammar Citizen Patrol.

Once again: Pot or Kettle? Point of all this? None, really. Boredom mostly.

Davey

p.s. DL88: While I am a very proud Canadian, I hold a great respect for your country and the majority of it's people. When I can't buy Canadian first, I buy American. When I can't watch Canadian television, I watch American.

I am not naming names, but perhaps some of your people could use to buy some unbiased history books, but other than that - you're alright with me!

p.p.s. DL88: We all serve our countries in different ways. Some more positive than others. I hold a great deal of respect for a person who serves his or her country blindly or otherwise. That is a great sacrifice to make, and some have made the ultimate. That being said just because a person who does not believe in the cause or serve in their country's military does not make them a coward. It makes them an individual.

p.p.p.s. George: To get back to the original subject, you sound like you have made up your mind but I'll weigh in anyway. Like others have said: Live a year in the shoes of an incontinent person. Once you make the cut, you can't turn around.

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If my country needs me in another great war, I would be happy to go because I am doing what is right, not illegally running to another country where my cowardice is accepted.

Let's hope you are never called upon to prove that!!

Seriously, I don't think any of us can say how we would react in that situation, it's easy to say these things, you know 'I would do this and that' but until we are in a foxhole with a shell bursting over our head we honestly can't say what we would do. We may charge into battle and die gloriously or we may just lay their calling for our mom......we can't say!

There have always been people that refuse to fight for their countries, some are genuine cowards, some because it's against their political beliefs (like the British and Americans that supported the Nazis during WW2) some because it's against their religious beliefs, some because their nerves are shot to bits (this didn't start with Vietnam, there are records of people in the Napoleonic War and American Civil War that just cracked).

Sometimes though it takes more courage to stand up for what you believe in (even when you are breaking the law and going against the majority) than it does to blindly follow an order.

Beth

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