California Lifts Gay Marriage Ban....for Now

[Guest]

...should honor marriage as the time honored tradition as it is, between a man and a woman.

I hate that phrase, time honored tradition.

If we stuck with all time honored traditions, my mom couldn't vote, and my shirt would still be made from cotton picked by some non-paid "negro".

Tradition is NOT a reason to continue discrimination.

Fine, wear a traditional outfit, if you want, celebrate Xmas however you've done it for all eternity, but to prevent others from doing things there way is just oppressive and wrong.

My thought on it is..

You don't like gay marriage... Fine, don't marry a gay!

Like wise, I think Christianity is wrong for me, so I don't follow it! (I wouldn't DARE say you can't!)

By the way, my religion has nothing against gay marriage. According to our religious rules, we should be free to marry gays. So, right there, my right to freedom of religion is violated. I'm lesbian, so my right to persuit of happiness is violated. Don't even get me STARTED on Separation of Church and State.

Constitutional rights are a myth!

Oh here's a messed up thought. I'm a transwoman!

Pre-op, I can go marry Linzi if I wanted to.

Post-op, I can't. If I had beforehand, it'd become invalid.

Now THAT'S some crack!

[PampersPete]

My thought on it is..

You don't like gay marriage... Fine, don't marry a gay!

I LOVE this response!

[crys_138]

Hi,

The government should abolish the judical sex. Afterwards, there would be only a partnership between two people. Financial benefits should go to people raising children, regardless of status.

Kvetinka, being an utopist

Seconded.

[DiaperBoyKR]

Witch, I agree with you completely.

We shouldn't hang to tradition for tradition's sake. We must continually test our traditions and beliefs in order to find what is the correct path for our people. At the same time we definitely must make sure to preserve equal treatment for ALL people under the law. Thats the entire foundation of our country. Yes, the predominant culture is Christian, and yeah many Christian sects have issues with gays, but that doesnt mean that the government has to bow to that culture. Without the equality under the law, the rule of law cannot be properly applied.

There will always be a class of people who will be second-class citizens whose rights will be limited if we continue to allow one section of the populace dictate the way things will be.

[BabyZangoose]

despite the apparent religious connection, marriage exists for reasons around having a child, and in the past various bonuses existed for being married, whether it's tax breaks, health coverage benefits or in the past being able to have sex were all to promote the production of children, historically to continue a growing society the population must continue to expand, sorry but no 2 lesbians or gays will ever create a kid naturally, yes they can adopt and go to other measures but it's not the typical man+woman=baby

yes gays should be allowed to love who they choose, but there is no economic reason to give the benefits of marriage to them.

it's like going into a store and asking for a military discount, but you were never in the military.

marriage is an economic tool not a right.

I don't have anything against gay people, but I think marriage should mean something

marriage stopped meaning something when it became, oh how did you put it..."an economic tool ", thats right. You just said "marriage should mean something" after saying it was an economic tool, an no longer a religious/traditional practice. Wouldn't marriage being considered an economical tool destroy what little meaning it has left in our society? I mean when you get married its pretty much 50/50 you'll get divorced and the 50% that doesn't get divorced counts all the murders accidents and deaths. Marriage means nothing in this day an age. As for "reasons of having a child" a) our population is growing at an exponential rate, to the degree at which the economy is coming under immense strain, as well as our infrastructure. The would could do without marriage being centered around breeding. Sorry, but your argument has no validity in reality and is obviously based on a bias that was most likely taught to you at a very young age. Shame people never allow their children to grow up with their own opinions.

[Baby Bethany]

I think that to make a statement like "marriage doesn't mean anything in this day and age" is incorrect, it depends on your own individual values. I don't believe in organised religion, but if I were to say "God doesn't mean anything in this day and age" I would be wrong. Because once again, if you have a strong religious belief it will have huge meaning in your life.

On the tradition debate, my view is this. We shouldn't hang on to a tradition that makes no sense, just for the sake of hanging on to it. However, on the other side of the coin, we shouldn't scrap a tradition just for the sake of it either. Tradition is both a good and bad thing, so we should value the good traditions and move on from the bad. Ignoring tradition, just because tradition in general is considered uncool is pointless.

Beth

[WallaWalla]

To be honest, I think we should all be happy that as a nation we have so little else to care about that we spend time, money, sweat, and tears on arguing about gay marriage. I mean, we really don't have anything better to talk about, right? Wait on second thought maybe we do...

[Baby Bethany]

To be honest, I think we should all be happy that as a nation we have so little else to care about that we spend time, money, sweat, and tears on arguing about gay marriage. I mean, we really don't have anything better to talk about, right? Wait on second thought maybe we do...

You are right of course, there are many far more important topics that we should be discussing, things like "Should I tell my mom about my diapers" and "I like smelling my plastic pants" and then of course there is the single most important topic I've ever spoken about on here "I like fried chicken, do you?"

Beth

[Frink]

This is the problem with democracy. Nothin' ever gets settled. This is why the world's governance should be placed in more capable hands (ie mine). First order of business: everybody has to marry a pelican. In event of a divorce, the pelican is granted all assets.

For reference, I'm with you guys inasmuch as I'll be voting to uphold gay marriage. Mainly to piss off the red-staters.

[wsdler]

What I find really ironic is that most of the folks who oppose same sex marriage typically proclaim to be for smaller government and minimal government invovlement in our personal lives yet when it comes to this issue, they're all for it. Hypocrites. I find the idea of attempting to legislate who can love whom to be absolutely reprehensible as it is a form of discrimination and harassment. Let's face it, this is nothing more than religious interests attempting to yield their collective power to achieve a religious objective (I suppose there's atheists and agnostics who are anti-gay but I've yet to meet any). It doesn't exactly coincide well with the separation of church and state. Give gays and lesbians the right to marry. If a given CHURCH doesn't want to perform the ceremony or acknowledge love between two people, so be it. They should have the freedom to decide that. They should NOT however have the ability to medal in other people's lives beyond that and ENFORCE their religious beliefs upon people who do not subscribe to the same religion. I find that to be disgusting and morally repugnant. It leads to all kinds of things that I'm guessing Jesus and God wouldn't want to have any part of... like declaring war in god's name (what part about "thou shalt not kill" did you not understand?).

[wsdler]

This is the problem with democracy. Nothin' ever gets settled. This is why the world's governance should be placed in more capable hands (ie mine). First order of business: everybody has to marry a pelican. In event of a divorce, the pelican is granted all assets.

For reference, I'm with you guys inasmuch as I'll be voting to uphold gay marriage. Mainly to piss off the red-staters.

I'd prefer a penguin. They're cuter.

[db70db70]

To be honest, I think we should all be happy that as a nation we have so little else to care about that we spend time, money, sweat, and tears on arguing about gay marriage. I mean, we really don't have anything better to talk about, right? Wait on second thought maybe we do...

we do, lots more, if people really read about what the government and corporations are doing to our rights they would be very pissed, what does it matter if gays can marry if we get so blindsided by it that we lose all our other rights

What I find really ironic is that most of the folks who oppose same sex marriage typically proclaim to be for smaller government and minimal government invovlement in our personal lives yet when it comes to this issue, they're all for it. Hypocrites. I find the idea of attempting to legislate who can love whom to be absolutely reprehensible as it is a form of discrimination and harassment. Let's face it, this is nothing more than religious interests attempting to yield their collective power to achieve a religious objective

gays can still love each other, just not have the economic benefits of marriage, sadly laws are based on religious views in the U.S. , otherwise prostitution would be legal (less harmful if legal), nudity is not harmful, we are just taught to think that based on puritanical views

[Guest]

despite the apparent religious connection, marriage exists for reasons around having a child, and in the past various bonuses existed for being married, whether it's tax breaks, health coverage benefits or in the past being able to have sex were all to promote the production of children, historically to continue a growing society the population must continue to expand, sorry but no 2 lesbians or gays will ever create a kid naturally, yes they can adopt and go to other measures but it's not the typical man+woman=baby

yes gays should be allowed to love who they choose, but there is no economic reason to give the benefits of marriage to them.

it's like going into a store and asking for a military discount, but you were never in the military.

marriage is an economic tool not a right.

I don't have anything against gay people, but I think marriage should mean something

So... Gays don't have meaning?!

Oh fuck you!

Ok ok, so man+woman=baby

Fine... What about all the straights who've had hysterectomies, testicular cancer, or were born infertile, etc etc etc?

Oh, wait, got to invalidate married couples who don't want kids, fuck them too, they're not in love.

Marriage should mean something...?

Ummm... Vegas

Oh, and all the gold diggers, like the 20 somethings that marry some old dying rich guy.

Please explain your military analogy.

Straights fall in love, get married. Gays fall in love, so that's like having been in the military in your analogy.

*Train Roars by*

FUCK! Missed the logic train AGAIN! DAMN IT!

"historically to continue a growing society the population must continue to expand"

According to you, we should all fuck (straightly) like rabbits till we all run out of room and food and fucking starve to death.

Awesome, gotta love "tradition".

[Guest]

we do, lots more, if people really read about what the government and corporations are doing to our rights they would be very pissed, what does it matter if gays can marry if we get so blindsided by it that we lose all our other rights

gays can still love each other, just not have the economic benefits of marriage, sadly laws are based on religious views in the U.S. , otherwise prostitution would be legal (less harmful if legal), nudity is not harmful, we are just taught to think that based on puritanical views

Yep. That reminds me of when I was reading about segregation.

Blacks could still drink water, just not from the normal cleaner water fountain. They could still use the bathroom, they just had to find a place equipped with a colored's bathroom. <sarcasm> Man, those colored sure did ask for everything. </sarcasm>

[Guest]

To be honest, I think we should all be happy that as a nation we have so little else to care about that we spend time, money, sweat, and tears on arguing about gay marriage. I mean, we really don't have anything better to talk about, right? Wait on second thought maybe we do...

Sorry, still bitter over being told "it's a free country".

GOD I hate being lied to.

[FretaBWet]

One question though.....If the U.S. states that gay marriage is illegal,how in the fuck did Massachusetts pass their gay marriage law? I guess that's kind of a rhetorical question.

The feds didn't exactly say gay marriage is illegal. Under federal law every state in the union had to honor a marriage performed in another state. The reason for this is because marriage was a state's rights issue and different states had different age limits. What the feds did was to insure that two 14 year olds that were married in say Tennessee could move to Ohio where the law said they had to be 18 to be married but Ohio had to legally recognize the marriage. The defense of marriage act simply releases states from the requirement to recognize a marriage between same sex couples so a gay couple married in Massachusetts does not have to be recognized as married in any other state if they don't want to.

As far as the Supreme Court usurping the rights of the majority that is exactly what they were put in there for. Just because there is a majority of people to vote something into law doesn't make it right. The majority of Germans leading up to WW2 went along with Hitler and look at where that got them. They passed laws allowing the government to seize the assets of thousands of innocent law abiding Jews for no reason other than hatred. It doesn't matter if every single person in the state of California votes to make murder legal. It violates the constitution so the court is there to tell them you can't do that. Our founding fathers had a lot on the ball. They knew the majority would sometimes do stupid things so they put in a check on that power. It works well most of the time.

Hugs,

Freta