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handgun owners, i could use some recommendations please


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well, im considering buying my first handgun, and i need some recommendations, i want to get a semi auto instead of revolver because of the capacity, but i dont really know what all to look for in this first hand gun, if you were in the market for a gun, what would you look at? how do you determine what fits your hand better or is that an issue? ive tried doing some research and went to a gun shop, trying to get an idea of what to look for and what i might like to buy, i want something i can add some accessories like lasers and lights to to improve my odds if i need to use it for home defense/varmint control(although i would hope i never have to use it for either), ive considered glocks, but there is a smith and wesson that kinda caught my eye, the m and p 9c, although i might consider the full size one because its got 17 instead of 12 rounds, im kinda looking at the 9mm's but ive heard .40 cal is a good first hand gun caliber, what are your opinions on this? is there another caliber that would be better to start off with?

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I have a Hi Point C9 in 9mm myself. It's kinda heavy and clunky, only holds 10 rounds, and no rails for accessories unless you want to replace the rear adjustable sight with an optic. However, it's tough and reliable, and super accurate. The best part, it's only $179 msrp. I would also look at Rock Island Armory, they make great 1911's chambered in a few calibres other than .45 acp. Do you plan on concealed carry, or just for home defense and varmits (including the big ass spider hiding behind the toilet) if thats the case, I would look at a shotgun because of it's versitility, and stopping power, or a pistol calibre carbine, such as a Kel Tek Sub 2000, or a Hi Point carbine. Most importantly, whatever you get, go to the range and practice

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for me, it depends what you want to use your firearm for. are your intentions self/home defense? recreation? the beginning of a collection? hunting? (yes, many states have handgun hunting seasons! normally larger caliber revolvers

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i cant say that right now i intend to carry concealed, but i do want the option at some point, i do intend to get a concealed carry permit, but mainly so i can bypass the 4473, i cant say i want to do recreational shooting, i want some stopping power incase i have to stop an intruder(of course i would verify that its an intruder before i would ever touch the trigger) and i would like at least a respectable capacity, not this little 6 round or whatever, as for hi point, ive heard bad things about them, kind of a "you get what you pay for" thing,

im not a first time gun owner, just first time on handgun buying, ive bought a pump action

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This is an ABDL forum - strange place to come to for advice on firearms.

But having said that - suggest you visit a book store or place selling gun magazines.

Perhaps think about a 1 year membership in the NRA.

The idea is to get a broader spectrum than what is provided here at this forum.

You mentioned about going to a gun store - great go back and talk shop with

the owner or clerk behind the counter. Go to a gun show if one is close by.

Get a head start on filling out the forms and paperwork to buy a firearm.

You just don't buy one and walk out the door - it is not that simple.

So you have done some preliminary research - have you determined what

kind of a budget you will have available. The gun itself maybe at a fixed

cost but the AMMO - Oh that stuff - find out what is going to be the best

for your shooting needs

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Your first stop should be a local shooting range. See what they can offer for try-outs and instruction- most have classes for shooting and concealed carry permits or they will know who does those in your area. Gun safety courses are sometimes offered by government wildlife offices for free bur no matter what you need that course. Intended purpose sets the tone for the gun selection.

Here is where I differ from most folks. You don't need a semi-auto, you need a revolver and here's why. First is that is is super-easy to be made safe by opening the cylinder. There's no chance of forgetting

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Federal background checks may be augmented by local laws and regulations. It will likely take at least 3 days and it can take a lot more if you reside somewhere that the laws are more restrictive. The safety course you should take may not be offered frequently locally. Some are only given monthly. Until you have that under your belt you shouldn't even load one round into your gun. You'll need a safe place to practice and finding that may take awhile unless you join a shooting club (and they may have limited range-time or waiting lists for that available time). This is serious business and not something to be rushed but something to be done correctly no matter how long it takes.

Bettypooh

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I put about 1,500 rounds through both of my Hi Points and have had zero problems. I can't say the same for my Winchester, or my Rock Island. As long as I run brass shells, and hot loads, my Hi Points work fine. I even ran cheap stuff and they still fired just fine. There is a diference between a "cheap gun" (Cobra) and a "budget gun" (Hi Point) they have a cult following for a reason.

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There's nothing wrong with a good revolver for a first gun. The most important thing to consider isn't the bad guys, it's the innocent people. When you have to fire that gun you have to really consider ahead of time where the bullets that miss are going to go. Do you live alone in a single family home somewhere remote? Then you probably don't have to worry a lot. Do you live in an apartment complex with lots of windows and shared walls,

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Glaser safety slugs (if they still make them) and the MagSafe loads are designed to not be lethal after passing through 2 layers of 1/2" drywall- your typical home construction. They are pretty effective in stopping power too. Few autos function with them but all revolvers do. An old handloader's trick is to load a HBWC backwards, open end to the front. Mashes shut and tumbles on impact as often as it expands but it doesn't penetrate much. But even with these, you still must know you're backstop and that it is safe.

I once read of a multi-officer police shooting in a big city. 42 shots fired, 3 hits, only one in the K zone. Miraculously nobody else was hurt, only the perp. More recently I've seen the news reports of innocent bystanders having been hit by stray police-fired bullets- again lots of shots fired for few hits on the perp if any at all. This ain't the way to do it, moreso since you don't have the 'qualified immunity' of the Police. You are directly legally responsible for every one of the bullets that leaves your gun no matter where it goes. You will likely be convicted of manslaughter if a missed shot kills someone else. Only hits count, and they don't count much outside of the K zone. During the first half of WW2, most US Marines were using the 03A3 Springfield bolt action rifles, yet they had the highest enemy casualty-to-shots-fired ratio of any other units in that war, nearly twice as good as other military units equipped with the Garand. They were taught "one shot, one kill" and that is something you should aspire to. Practice until you almost never go outside of the 10 zone and do 5/6 in the K zone with either hand at all the ranges you'll be using your firearm at. That is the most important part of it all, and if you can do that almost any cartridge will be enough though the more stopping power the better. But if you can't hit it, it doesn't matter what you're shooting at it with- you still lose :( So use whatever you can hit with first and foremost, no matter what that is.

If you want to know how effective a given bullet/cartridge is at stopping a person, some of the best data has been collected by Evan Marshall who has scientifically investigated the results on numerous shootings. What he discovered will surprise you, such as the inneffeciveness of the 45ACP with round-nosed ammo; a 38SPL with good hollow points bests it by a large margin. That same 38 with round-nosed ammo is little better than a 22LR. A revolver will handle any type of bullet reliably though most auto's won't. The better autos will handle some of the best rounds though you have to find which one(s) your particular gun likes. There have been several more credible tests and studies which relate similar results as well as some less credible ones with various results. Just like with diapers it's the real-world actual-use results that mean something; the rest is all advertising BS :o

The 40S&W was developed at the behest of the FBI following the Miami shoot-out of 86 where even though the good guys had a 4-1 advantage, the bad guys killed 2 agents and seriously wounded 5 more before they were killed. Many calibers and ammo types were used in that fracas and it was discovered that in the pistols used, only the .357 had been effective. The 9MM's and 38SPL's didn't do the job even with decent hits, partly because of the ammo being used, a lot was round-nosed. But even the expanding rounds didn't perform as was expected. There was also an ammo incompatibility problem where agents ran dry but couldn't use what their partner's had, effectively leaving them unarmed. They needed to have one standard round for all. At the time the issued gun was a 38SPL with .357 and 9MM optional for senior agents who could qualify with it; a 9MM and .357 were used by the bad guys. The .357 was not well liked by most due to it's recoil and muzzle blast- many couldn't qualify with it anyway. They had tried the 45ACP but found similar issues- it was just too hard to shoot for most agents to use it well. There was no official request but rather some unofficial communications which set S&W on the course to both modernize it's semi-auto pistols quickly as well as to develop a more effective round. About this time, Jeff Cooper had collaborated with a few other folks and developed the 10MM Auto, a compromise between the high-velocity of the .357 with a larger bullet like the 45ACP. The idea was to create the maximum in handgun stopping power in a pistol which the average person could learn to shoot well, and at the time it did just that, but it did have considerable recoil so casual users were turned off. It was only offered in a few high-priced guns and when the main manufacturer failed financially there were some new developments from Austria which overshadowed it leaving the new round an orphan of sorts. S&W basically shortened that 10MM round to a length which could be used in it's newer 9MM pistols as well as many other guns of that same size. Because these guns could not handle the high pressure of the 10MM round, those specs were lowered and bullet weight was reduced to a level they could work with. What emerged was the 40S&W, again a compromise between velocity and size but now much less powerful. It lacks the stopping effect of the larger-diameter 45ACP and lacks the penetration ability of the 9MM, and while it is popular, it's limitations are being found to be significant. Given premium ammo in both, it is no more effective than the 9MM, and in the same sized gun the 9MM holds 1-3 more rounds. Again with premium ammo in both, it falls short of the 45ACP too. It's an answer in search of a question. The list of instances where heavily-clothed perps have taken multiple hits with the 40S&W are growing as are the reports of it not being able to penetrate some of the common barriers encountered in Police shoot-outs. It isn't really any better than any of the other commonly used defensive handgun rounds. Had S&W redesigned their guns and used the 10MM, they would have had what they were looking for. Sadly the 10MM Auto is nearly obsolete now, but the few enthusiasts still using it know that have the best self-defense round ever made. It is the only auto round I'd feel as comfortable with as I do with my .357 B)

Of all the handguns Marshall and others have reported on, the general consensus is that the best stopping power is the .357 with a premium 125gr hollow point driven as hard as possible. It penetrates barriers as well as any non-armor-piercing expanding round does (and few non-expanding rounds do better and then not by much), it expands very well and very reliably to a father degree that any other bullet does, and gives one-shot stops at a rate as high or higher that any other commonly used defensive handgun round does, even outperforming almost all 44MAG loads. Mine was chronographed at ~1600FPS from a 4" barrel, 3 shots all within 5FPS of each other. You can't buy that kind of performance- you have to build it yourself and it goes far beyond what anyone recommends as the sane limit for the powder I use. New cases last about 5 loading's- half of what you should get from them. This exact load has been reported as blowing up a few S&W's which are strong, well-made guns and has done the same with numerous lower grade guns, sometimes on the first shot. Even some Rugers, known for their strength, have had problems with it. The bullet I use is one of the best, again that is the consensus of all the studies and tests that have been made. It all correlates with my own unscientific testing, giving me almost rifle-like stopping power in a handgun. No auto ever built could take the pressure of my loads for long if at all. I may only have six, but I have six that will do the job if it is possible for that job to be done by any handgun. Most of all I know what I can do with it which while I'm not as good as I once was, I'm still good enough B)

Bettypooh

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Now after coming back and reading more into this - "DO YOU FEEL LUCKY" - DID I FIRE 5 OR SIX SHOTS - "SO GO AHEAD AND MAKE MY DAY" !

Thing about a .44 Magnum is that you can line up 6 folks in front of four plaster board apartment walls and you still would not be safe !

A round hitting an automobile engine block disables the engine.

For personal protection with more up front clout I would give up one round and go with the JUDGE a 5 shot .45 caliber .410 shot shell revolver.

With birdshot one can disable nasty animals - with a lead slug a hit is like a railroad engine pushing the semi-truck out of the way and

the .45 cal round is like being hit by two 9mm rounds at the same time !

But and probably a big one at that - is concealing a piece in diapers maybe a bit troublesome as one

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i already plan to practice with the gun i buy, of course i need to find some .22 ammo and practice with my 10/22 and havent done it yet, what are some good accessories for a gun? im considering a laser site, anyone use one of those?

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