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'Adult Baby Life Dynamics' And 'Ab Parents' Seminars


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@rosalie

Now lets look at the number of posts that I have put here. The number of posts that I have put here are not the whole of my experience, nor have I ever claimed such. That is an inaccruate conclusion that you seem to have drawn. If you are trying to say that the points that I am bringing up have less weight somehow due to the fact that I have fewer posts on this board than others, you are setting a different problem. That problem is that you seem to be linking the number of posts to experience and also qualifications. That kind of mindset is exactly what is wrong with society today in the workforce.

Abkarolyn, it seems to me (as I'm in the middle of the road on this subject) that your posts accurately portray your feelings and knowledge on this.

I also notice that Rosalie doesn't seem to care to show any (expertise of field) qualifications that the question asked for. I am beginning to wonder if this isn't self proclaimed expertise and of what value is that. A degree is science by itself doesn't show any knowledge on the AB lifestyle by itself.

In the past there have been self-proclaimed experts that don't really acknowledge the true subjects at all, but are in the mode called "out to squeeze every buck they can from any group of people".

I'm not saying Rosalie is one of those but the direction of this thread and the avoidance of the asked questions gives me a feeling that something is wrong.

IMO Clearly answering questions instead of avoiding the actual question is going to give her credence which hasn't been shown yet.

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There is a regular comment about my supposed 'lack of qualifications' on this topic. Well, what exactly would you accept as sufficient or adequate? Let's face it, there is no degree you would find acceptable and If I showed 20 years of clinical experience you would still discount what I say. This is ridiculous. There are no end of people who make no end of different comment or thoughts or opinions on AB and proffer zero qualifications whatsoever, yet their opinion is granted aceptance thru no virtue whatsover.

And what is this 'avoiding the question' garbage? I answer the questions, but you dont like the answers. so whatis this 'question' you are referring to?

But since some people wish to just keep asking question then it is my turn to demand a few answers. Some of you claim to dispute what I say and what I write. Then how about using some of those qualifications you endlessly rant about and actually formulate a coherent response to the body of my work. Dont like it? dont agree with it? then how about using some of the intellectual integrity that you demand of me and actuall post a rebuttal of my work.

Do you even know what my position is on AB? Or is the sole problem for you that I say something you personally dont agree with or like and thats a little too much for you to cope with?

@gweg: that notion that you even THINK that my motivation is to try and squeeze a buck out of people is offensive. Do you know how much time and effort is involved in reseraching, planning, writing, endlessly editing a book? Do you know that very few people ever actually recoup that time thru sales? Do you know that most people who do this kind of thing do so to help people and that is their sole motivation? Have you ever run a seminar aimed at such a small diverse target? The chances of even covering costs is small and let's not forget the months of work in preparing presentation materials, workshops and exercise material.

Some of you could do to remember that Im not making anything out of this and probably never will. And while you all complain and whinge and beat your petty little agendas, who else is researching this? who else is publishing books with more than 3 pages on AB? Plenty of fantasy porn fiction out there for you to read, but factual material?? zilch.

How about being part of the solution instead of part of the problem and criticisng the very few that try to help.

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All I asked is where you were coming from. And you have avoided my questions and just turfed me to your "book". I've avoided gettin into conversations with you because you get all bent and pissy when people ask you perfectly valid questions.

Way to go! Do your thing, I'll return to being disinterested.

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Rosalie, in your previous post you inferred that even though you yourself have no specific degrees related to this, you still felt qualified due to your experience in the field. Do not ask of others what you will not ask of yourself. If one can be qualified without a degree, then so can others and you need to accept that truth or disqualify yourself when you disqualify them. Many members here have as much or more experience with this than you do, and when their concurrence goes counter to your own thoughts, then maybe you are wrong- a possibility that you don't seem to consider possible :(

And there is a lot of correlation between the appearance of some TG's and AB's. I know several T-girls whose body is more like that of a linebacker than the average woman, and although their lot has been tough, they live their life as women, developing 'skin' that's tough enough to handle the daily criticism and heckling they get. One of the people most dear to me could have 'passed' as a woman exceedingly well, but instead chose to be her real self and lives openly as being TG. The crap she takes as a check-out clerk at a large retailer and the financial stress of that job is just part of her being herself openly and is a price well worth paying for her to have the happiness that being her true self brings to her. She has intimate relationships with others who accept her and support her in her lifestyle. She also has a few professional degrees, though because of her appearance those fields have closed their doors to her, and that can really hurt a person inside. These people all know that it's more important to accept who you are and live the way you want to than it is to alter yourself to fit someone else's ideals. Yes, it is not an easy thing to do for some people, and some compromise is always involved but it can be done well enough to live in today's world. That principle is the one that nearly all the degreed professionals in the mental health field are taught and follow and help you find in your own life- and it applies to everyone, be they AB, DL, TG, TS, weightlifting women, runners, bicyclists, and yes even stay-at-home-Moms <_< You don't seem to want to accept that truth just because it is sometimes a hard path to follow- especially in a relationship where the spouse will be affected too. What these degreed professionals do is help you cope with going down your own path in as good a way as they can find for you. What you seem to want to do is alter people's paths to what you want them to be :o Again, this is not an AB specific thing here- it's universal.

If you start a thread on a topic, you open yourself to the replies others will give, agreeable or otherwise. If they want to know specifics you need to be prepared to offer them an answer. If they show you that your ideas are wrong, you should be prepared to change them. Rosalie, you seem to have a problem with all of this, and that goes counter to one can rightfully ask of someone who claims to have superior knowledge in any given field. You cannot gain expertise if you cannot or will not learn, even when the lesson runs counter to your own beliefs. With the vast experiences of our members here, especially those with a long lifetime experience of handling their own AB selves well, I choose to believe them over your still unsubstantiated claims. If you cannot or will not back up what you say with proof, then do not become offended when others call you out on those things.

And to all, if you reply to a topic in disagreement, please do so respectfully and offer proof of your position, even if it's just your own experiences that give you that proof B) Debate is a god thing when there is education and a better understanding occurs as the end result :thumbsup: Argument is a bad thing period- no exceptions :bash: Thanks to all for your understanding and restraint- it makes the life of your site Admins a lot easier :girl_happy:

Bettypooh

Betty, while I accept some of the things you say, some I think are quite wrong. You talk often about accepting other peoples opinions and I do. But just occasionally I would like some substance to the opposing argument and i dont just accept something because it was said by some online person. Yes, I said that wearing AB clothes in public and acting in an overt AB manner is silly and that is not just my own opinion - it is shared by I suggest the significant majority of people on here.

Your insistence that AB and TG are similar is wrong. And yes, that is my opinion so allow me to have it. And I actually have reasons and can support my position (and have previously)

This thread is about the concept of a seminar/workshop and most of the thread has been once again about attacking me and the presumption that somehow Michael and I am totally unqualified to present this kind of material. Well, I repeat the same question that Ive asked before and not been answered. WHO ELSE? Who else would you suggest presents at a day like this?

What seems to be the essential problem is this. We decided to write a book about AB and for the first time, not a fantasy fiction one. And for that we have endured endless criticism and abuse (from on-liners) while precisely none of those critics have actually read the book (of course). Meanwhile back in the real world, we get daily emails from people who have gained great help from it as to understanding themselves or their partner. it seems that the real generator of this attitude is that I simply say what I beleive to be right and most dont seem able to cope with that. But when I ask for debate on that topic it doesnt come. But the abuse sure does.

Who else is writing self-help books on AB? no one

Who else is conducting surveys on AB and TB? almost no one

Who else is planning AB training and self-exploration days? no one

Frankly, if some of you people feel the need to criticise then get out and do some of this yourself.

PS in an awesome example of the above point, one particular fetlife thread spent days and hundreds of posts attacking me and then decided in their infinite wisdom that they would write a book collaboratively and started a thread just for that. They got as far as the copyright disclaimer (because that is always the first part an author writes LOL) before they all lost interest and went their separate ways

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All I asked is where you were coming from. And you have avoided my questions and just turfed me to your "book". I've avoided gettin into conversations with you because you get all bent and pissy when people ask you perfectly valid questions.

Way to go! Do your thing, I'll return to being disinterested.

First point is that I answered your questions and secondly, there is no obligation on anyone to answer personal question especially relating to a personal relationship. If you have questions then ask but dont get hufffy because you dont like the answer.

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Wow and welcome folks to round 53 of 'Let's attack Rosalie Bent' for some perceived offence or other. Honestly, do some of you wonder why the vast unwashed of the wider AB community (like me) don't get on here very often? Perhaps because the content of so many threads is inane, repetitive and sometime utter and complete drivel? But I drop in because there are occasionally threads like this one that look a little different and perhaps offer a rise about the generally pitiful level of conversation.

The Seminar sounds like an intriguing idea and while I think it will be problematic in the extreme I wish her the best of luck. The AB community certainly needs a bit more in the way of understanding of how it all works as well as some suggestions on making it easier.And let me admit right away that I have actually read her book and I thought it was pretty good. As a married AB I have to deal with putting this strong need of mine into a relationship and it can be pretty hard at times. Her suggestinos were good but best of all, my wife read it and she said she learned more from the book about me than she had learned from me!

I had a bit of a chuckle when the discussion turned to qualifications because I work in a research field where it is the standard joke that the only people who ask about qualifications are the people who dont have them. There isnt a single person on my floor that doesnt have a PhD other than the admin assistant - who has a degree as well. Nobody cares about your PhD here. They care about what you are doing now in your job.

I work in a field where you 'publish or perish' and so I publish. It is hard work but exciting. I will never win the nobel prize but my work is good. But it is also openly and extensively criticised as is everyone's work. That is the nature of the beast. But most of us do not get as maniacal as some do on here when their precious beliefs are challenged. The work i did for My PhD took nearly 5 years to complete. About 10 years afterwards, further work in my field completely debunked my conclusions. Did that make my work worthless. No, because it was a stepping stone to a better answer. Most of you seem to think that any discussion or disagreement with your position is some personal assault. it has probably never occured to most of you that you could be wrong. I was wrong - dead wrong but I still contribute and in fact have won a very significant prize in my field.

I liked Rosalie's book. The folksy style was a blessed relief to the articles I normally read. There seemed to be an actual living being in there between the lines. Do I agree with everything she says? Probably not but at the same time, my area of expertise is nothing near to psychology and so it would remain just my opinion.

If rosalie were to write a more scholarly book then she would run into a problem that I dont face - peer review. She would need to get her work reviewed by her peers. Now who would they be? For all the words and all the posts I see nothing that would remotely qualify anyone on here to review her work. I see plenty of opinions and even they are usually nothing more than an expression of the writers singular experience.

Perhaps a better way of approaching threads like this is to encourage open and factual debate permitting differing opinions without attacking the writer. Rosalie has gotten a very harsh ride from the community from several sites and it seems mainly to be quite uncalled for.

How about the moderators keep this thread open and keep an eye on it but let it run. this is a worthwhile endeavour and deserves its chance to succeed without the luddites of the AB world killing it.

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When "some online person" is a member here, has met with others here in person, has been here for ages, has been participating in other ABDL online sites for just as long, has shown through all their communications that they have intelligence, insight, and experience then YES- I and most others here are going to believe them when they differ with you. They have proven themselves while on this site while you have not. Thus Briguy's question (and BTW, he's a very well adjusted, intelligent, happy ABDL who has been in many public places as his AB self, something you'd know if you had bothered to do a bit of research here)

His alluded-to question which you have been avoiding answering is essentially this: What qualifies you to teach others about this that differs from the rest of us? In other words what experience do you have with this? Don' t just point to your book, post the answer here for all of us to see- you own the copyright so that can't be a problem. Copy, paste, post. If you are as qualified as you think you are, then answering this question adequately will allow this discussion to grow and continue and do us all some good. Fail to do that and you're going to keep on hearing dissent as this topic degenerates into needing Mod action.

Bettypooh

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Ok how is this for specific.

What is your bachelor of science in? When did you obtain this degree? Was it from an acredited institution?

THis clinical experience you speak of, what were you doing? SPecifically, were you in a private practice treating patients one on one who were abdl? Was this as a receptionist at a car insurance form? What exactly was your clinical experience in and what did you specifically due as job duties?

If you hold a licence such as MSW etc.. what was your most recent conitnuing education credit in and when did you attend this course/seminar/conference?

Please detail you research methods.. ie. you sample size, the math you used, please provide copies of the questionaires or surveys you sent out, please provide us with data speaking to the validity and reliability of your research. Please provide us with the board of ethics which approved this research.

There, answer those questions SPECIFICALLY and perhaps there will be some more credibility to your statements, but thus far you have not answered antyhing specifically.

"i have a degree" "i've done research" "i have experience" - none of those are answering the questions specifically.

For example i am a graduate student therefore I am qualified to speak about being an ab... How does this really make sense? No one knows what my degree is in, no one knows aside from identifying as an AB have i ever engaged in ab behavior in any way? etc...etc....

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When "some online person" is a member here, has met with others here in person, has been here for ages, has been participating in other ABDL online sites for just as long, has shown through all their communications that they have intelligence, insight, and experience then YES- I and most others here are going to believe them when they differ with you. They have proven themselves while on this site while you have not. Thus Briguy's question (and BTW, he's a very well adjusted, intelligent, happy ABDL who has been in many public places as his AB self, something you'd know if you had bothered to do a bit of research here)

His alluded-to question which you have been avoiding answering is essentially this: What qualifies you to teach others about this that differs from the rest of us? In other words what experience do you have with this? Don' t just point to your book, post the answer here for all of us to see- you own the copyright so that can't be a problem. Copy, paste, post. If you are as qualified as you think you are, then answering this question adequately will allow this discussion to grow and continue and do us all some good. Fail to do that and you're going to keep on hearing dissent as this topic degenerates into needing Mod action.

Bettypooh

Lets start with debunking the notion that I am some kind of blow-in newbie. As one poster has put it, the number of posts is no idication of experience. The book was written with the significant input of my husband who is as you know, sissy AB. He has also been online in the AB world since its very inception and prior to that in the pre-internet mailing list AB groups. So we are not bringing a mere one years experience to this. I too have had to live thru these adventures and discover the 'parent' role. So if we want to throw 'years' into the mix then the level of AB experience involved in both the book and the proposed seminar amounts to many decades. So what qualifies me to teach and train? AB experience, actual training experience (I work as a training facilitator) and a keen mind.

But as I mentioned before, if you want to debate our abilities and experience then criticise the body of my work. The complaints that I am unqualified come exclusively from those who have no idea of the work we have done nor have read it. How do you honestly expect me to take that criticsm seriously? I cannot just post large slabs of work on here just to have it taken out of context. Im not that foolish.

But for all the complaints, I dont see anyone else lining up to take the financial or personal risk to do something like this.

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Ok how is this for specific.

What is your bachelor of science in? When did you obtain this degree? Was it from an acredited institution?

THis clinical experience you speak of, what were you doing? SPecifically, were you in a private practice treating patients one on one who were abdl? Was this as a receptionist at a car insurance form? What exactly was your clinical experience in and what did you specifically due as job duties?

If you hold a licence such as MSW etc.. what was your most recent conitnuing education credit in and when did you attend this course/seminar/conference?

Please detail you research methods.. ie. you sample size, the math you used, please provide copies of the questionaires or surveys you sent out, please provide us with data speaking to the validity and reliability of your research. Please provide us with the board of ethics which approved this research.

There, answer those questions SPECIFICALLY and perhaps there will be some more credibility to your statements, but thus far you have not answered antyhing specifically.

"i have a degree" "i've done research" "i have experience" - none of those are answering the questions specifically.

For example i am a graduate student therefore I am qualified to speak about being an ab... How does this really make sense? No one knows what my degree is in, no one knows aside from identifying as an AB have i ever engaged in ab behavior in any way? etc...etc....

Find a more qualified person than me to speak using the criteria you yourself demand and then we can talk. Until then, your attempts at baiting are amatuerish. And while you are at it, show some of the integrity you demand of me and read the book and then come back and debate with actual knowledge. At the moment I am debating with a person who is totally unqualified to have an opinion on the topic (me and my book). Isnt it the slightest bit concerning to you that the ONLY people who make substantive criticism of the book are those that havent read it?

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hahahah so once again you refuse to answer specific questions. Does your book answer the questions i ask about your research methods? Yes or no, does your book answer the questions i have asked regarding your research methods?

i also did not state any specific criteria which i would consider makes one qualified but rather asked specific questions about your background as you have mentioned having a bachelors degree and clinical experience in conjunction with discussing qualifications...

i've also not criticised your book, but rather asked clarifying information about your background and your research methods....

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hahahah so once again you refuse to answer specific questions. Does your book answer the questions i ask about your research methods? Yes or no, does your book answer the questions i have asked regarding your research methods?

i also did not state any specific criteria which i would consider makes one qualified but rather asked specific questions about your background as you have mentioned having a bachelors degree and clinical experience in conjunction with discussing qualifications...

i've also not criticised your book, but rather asked clarifying information about your background and your research methods....

We've been thru the 'research methodology' question endless times before - including with you. It gets tiresome to repeat the same answers time and time again because the recipient seems unable or unwilling to accept them. And just in case you dont understand the book was a HELP BOOK on relationships, not a PhD level dissertation on the behaviour. Now if you are incapable of understanding the distinction then there is not much I can do to help you.

But I've asked you to give me the names of professionals you think would be better suited to present and you declined because you dont know of any, do you? Why dont you leave the grownup activities like helping others and learning to me and you can stay in your little safe world pretending how much you know and how little you care.

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actually you did not ask for the names of professionals, and i never mentioned professionals, i asked if you were going to have other speakers at your event other than you and your husband who may also have a certain level of experience in abdl.. and stated perhaps some well established members who are professionals in their 'other' life i.e. not abdl life..I personally would never name people and put them in danger of being contacted by someone as insecure as you. You continuously spout petty insults and passive agressive posts in an attempt to make yourself look better by putting others down.

Personally i will never read your book because I don't need to. I only engage in ab play as sexual role play scenario with my boyfriend who only engages in ab play as a sexual fetish roleplay scenario. Your book offers me nothing as you have made it clear it has nothing to do with those who participate in this for sexual reasons. So why would i waste my money on a book that will offer me nothing?

and not once have you ever told me your research methods, but you have NUMEROUS times stated you did 'research' for your book including interviews with other abdls... this implies research... hell research can be as much as reading other books or articles.. but other than stating you have talked with other abdls you have yet to give any specifics. Aside from collecting stories on the internet form people who may or may not even be who they say they are.. did you do anything else?

and honestly i don't care at all about 'educating' people about abdl or whatever.. thats always been clear from my posts.. i've never pretended to have any desire to 'educate' people about anything related to this.. except to give my own opinion when people post here looking for advice...

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@rosalie

First your statements appear to be meant as nothing more than inflamatory, and that is something that bettypooh already warned about.

Second, Though you have a BS, I would like to know what the field is that gives you the expertice AND experience to pass judgement on a persons' level of functionality (again) based solely on the presence or absence of visiable paraphinalia. If you can show the years of clinical experience where you were working under the supervision of a MD or PHD that can be verified, I am willing to listen. As I stated before and I will restate here. Your claim about a persons level of functionality is an undefendable position untill you can show proof of what you are claiming in a direct, non-confrontational way. Evidence that others can look at and evaluate for themselves, and not rely on your say so. This is not too much to ask, and if positions were reversed, I would be willing to show the expertise or experince so that the playing field is level. This is something that so far you have been unwilling to do (show specific experience or qualifications); as is evidenced by your inactions, not general ones that without supporting information may or may not apply to the situation.

Third, lets talk about the "avoiding the question garbage" is about the fact that you are asked direct questions, again as evidenced by your continued actions, you either do not answer the question at all (like you did mine for two consecuative times), or you give a partial answer. What I mean by partial answer is you give a generalized answer, but very rarely do you go into specifics to back up your claims. And when it starts to become clear that a position that you put forth is undefendable, you (so far) either refuse to retract said statement, or you seem unwilling to simply come out and state that such and such is what you want. Either way would not only allow you to save face, but would also help to build respect for your ideas and ideals. It also would help to eliminate some of the alination and potential resentment that I sense coming forth from the boards here towards you

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Find a more qualified person than me to speak using the criteria you yourself demand and then we can talk. Until then, your attempts at baiting are amatuerish. And while you are at it, show some of the integrity you demand of me and read the book and then come back and debate with actual knowledge. At the moment I am debating with a person who is totally unqualified to have an opinion on the topic (me and my book). Isnt it the slightest bit concerning to you that the ONLY people who make substantive criticism of the book are those that havent read it?

first off your not automatically qualified because of your roll playing...

secondly if you are trying to use that than anyone who is an Ab and in a relationship for more than a year is just as qualified.

Third if you do want to use that personal experience qualified knowledge than it is also by your claim "at the moment" you aren't debating with any unqualified individuals on this board as all are AB's or have knowledge through this forum.

also Sara referred to your qualifications for use in putting on your seminar is how it sounds to me not your book which are separate things.

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@rosalie

First your statements appear to be meant as nothing more than inflamatory, and that is something that bettypooh already warned about.

Second, Though you have a BS, I would like to know what the field is that gives you the expertice AND experience to pass judgement on a persons' level of functionality (again) based solely on the presence or absence of visiable paraphinalia. If you can show the years of clinical experience where you were working under the supervision of a MD or PHD that can be verified, I am willing to listen. As I stated before and I will restate here. Your claim about a persons level of functionality is an undefendable position untill you can show proof of what you are claiming in a direct, non-confrontational way. Evidence that others can look at and evaluate for themselves, and not rely on your say so. This is not too much to ask, and if positions were reversed, I would be willing to show the expertise or experince so that the playing field is level. This is something that so far you have been unwilling to do (show specific experience or qualifications); as is evidenced by your inactions, not general ones that without supporting information may or may not apply to the situation.

Third, lets talk about the "avoiding the question garbage" is about the fact that you are asked direct questions, again as evidenced by your continued actions, you either do not answer the question at all (like you did mine for two consecuative times), or you give a partial answer. What I mean by partial answer is you give a generalized answer, but very rarely do you go into specifics to back up your claims. And when it starts to become clear that a position that you put forth is undefendable, you (so far) either refuse to retract said statement, or you seem unwilling to simply come out and state that such and such is what you want. Either way would not only allow you to save face, but would also help to build respect for your ideas and ideals. It also would help to eliminate some of the alination and potential resentment that I sense coming forth from the boards here towards you

Let's get a little context going here. When Bettypooh incorrectly (by her own admission) asserted that 50% of ABs would be unable to attend an 8 hour seminar without overt AB displays you mentioned your own experience of using a pacifier in public. I said that I believe that is a bad thing and 'coercive paraphilic behaviour' (look it up) such as that is wrong and even perhaps evidence of dysfunction. That is my opinion, but not only mine. In other threads regarding public overt AB displays the vast majority say it is a bad thing to do. Now on the basis of some posters belief that the majority opinion is the right one then who are you to say that it is not? let me answer that for you. It IS your right to have an opinion in contrast to those of other people. You may even be correct. Majority-rules in matters of non-established fact is the province of the kindergarten or the dictatorship.

Now I am willing to grant you an opinion without evidence. Why am I not allowed an opinion that differs from yours? IN fact, what is this entire argument about? It is supposed to be discussing a possible seminar that could be of benefit to people and all I get is criticism. Is there anyone on this thread withg an actual reason why this is a bad idea especially since I have received private support from several for it via email already? And Im sure they would love to know that Betty considers them stupid. Is that an example of the kind of respect for other members that I am suppsoed to be showing?

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I don't think i ever said it was a bad idea either, i simply asked if you were going to have other people speaking at the event.

The thing is rosalie, anytime someone asks you a question you flip your lid, assuming them asking you is in some way them criticising you.

For the record I LOVE THIS THREAD!!!!

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Wow people, calm down. To me an expert on the subject would be someone with a doctorate and years experience studying or practicing some level of psychology, preferably majoring ins exual behaviors, a sexologist if you will. this doesn't mean they'd understand an infantilist, a DL or an age-player but they'd understand the base mechanics behind the fetishism. As for Rosalie she is no more or less qualified than Mako, Spacey or any other podcaster out there. they would just have a wider variety of experience to base their knowledge on. My own podcast is simply my experiences and what I feel I can offer people.(It's evolving). I am sure the op understands that her book isn't the be all/end all of the community and is merely her thoughts, opinions and conjectures on the dynamics of play and th community. She is essentially the fetish equivelant to a typical self help book. I understand the arguments on research and that wa sone of my deciding factors against purchase but I don't think she's done anything malicious or with ill will. I mean I can quote the DSM-IV regarding fetihism and even had my own therapist laughing when I brushed off the topic of my fetish(not why I was seeing him, though it appears we were headed down the road of relationship issues and how past experiences have shaped my approach and attitude towards relationships...blah...blah...blah, you know the rotuine)

As for getting reaearch that is a hard thing to do as itnernet surveys aren't truly honest as any fool can give a b.s. opinion while protected by miles of ethernet cable. Really the best concept for me in regards to "research" would be to take what is known in the psychological community and cultivate that along with the experiences of many verses the world according to one. Part of the reaosn why I like the Biglittle podcast is the fact Mako and Spacey have different guests on there. i hope to do that with mine at some point, starting with my little one(shameless plug, I know). Heck I can even add to the mix by discussing the emotional and physical toll of being a switch has on me, where as another switch may have no problem being assigned to one roll. We're all different and there isn't enough of a broad sample to get a real/definitive flavor of the community. I'm not into sissy play so what happens with your husband would probably not be correct or true of myself. Just as i like humiliation but condescending tones are a personal trigger for me and it might be a turn on for someone else. Hell I'd love a deep and comprehensive study, a way to give a generalization of character archtypes and dynamics in the scene.

I went off topic there, my apologies. To everyone taking issue with Rosalie, she tried doing something for the community while making a couple bucks. Considering it's not another poorly written erotica novel that wouldn't pass the first paragrpah through M.S. Office's spell check, I'm will to cut her some slack. On the same token, having footnotes and references for data and research is the basic tenant of anything that is to be taken seriously on a clinical level. I think a seminar with multiple speakers each giving their view point would be beneficial. It's kind of like a church retreat verses a jim jones complex; as in the more varied the speakers the better it would be received and the more honest it will be.

Okay done rambling,

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I do not normally enter contentious debates online as they end up rather silly and pointless. However, this time I am going to make an exception.

Id like to thank you personally for your thoroughly patronising and frankly offenisve post to me (quoted). I do not appreciate being told that I do not know anything about AB by a non-AB. I do not appreciated being called stupid by you either because I would probably be the type of person (and my wife) who would go to such an event. And do you want to play qualifications? I am preparing to do my second PhD. Want to consider calling me unqualified and stupid again?

Oh and let me speak from MY PROFESSION. 'Consensus' is not evidence. Error and stupidity always runs in packs and when it is a predominantly online pack it is almost always wrong. My profession is literally filled with people who were ridiculed by the majority but were subsequently proved right. But I did have a quiet chuckle when you talked about the 'majority'. I did what some of you dont seem to know anything about and did a little research in the last hour looking at threads Rosalie has been attacked in. There appears to be around 20-25 people who regularly attack her and you dont need my level of math education to know that 25 is not a majority in any world-wide community.

You claim that you are her peer. You are not. Being a peer reviewer is a little more complex than that. For starters you need to be at the top of your field. You are not. How could you be? You aren't even AB and how many publications can you cite on your CV? None. And speaking as one who read her book, it is not a book that is requiring peer review. It is not a scholarly article nor a research document. it is a book designed to help people. And you know what? it has! It has made a big difference for my wife particularly.

Now you made a claim about all the shrinks and psychologists supposedly on this site. Well it is possible I guess, but you'd never know it from the posts. Where are their wise and insightful threads? Where are their well-respected articles in scientific journals? Where are their published books to help out the rest of us with our sometimes troublesome journeys thru AB life? Nowhere, thats where! Ive been to quite a few of these so-called professionals over the years and my experience is that they are next to useless in the area of AB. Most know next to nothing about it and the rest dont know how to deal with it. So excuse me for not getting too excited or impressed by these 'so-called professionals'.

I posted before about the fetish you people seem to have for qualifications. You seem to think it is some open-door to validating your opinion. Only the lowly or unqualified entertain such delusions.

Rosalie is trying to do something and frankly, she is succeeding where most of you are not. She is having a positive impact while you spend most of your time complaining about it.

And if you wonder why I am so angry it is because of this. You called be stupid and treated my opinion as worthless and of no value. This is exactly what you accuse Rosalie of. And in future you may refer to me as DR oddleynappied BSc (Hons) PhD

GOD, you've got my feelings to a T. I read Rosealie's original booklet (which took far less criticism), and then contributed to her book, and found some insight into my experiences as an AB (or whatever you call it). In my case, I had a hard time fully grasping where I stood in the whole spectrum of ABism. As has been said, this is the most diverse forum of this out there (and I believe I've look at nearly all of them). Even so, I certainly don't share very much in common with somebody like Heidilyn (I hope I spelled that correctly). Even with what appears to be a majority of the posters here, as I don't identify with the whole LG thing. When I'm wearing a diaper, I'm totally in little boy mode. Even so, there is still a very large of my experience in diapers is completely adult.

Fact is, even with the complete diversity of the posters here, there is very little here that actually relates to my experience.

I do think Rosalie does suffer from being a little thin-skinned. That may be as a result from her experience from abuse she has taken. There those who say "She doesn't speak for experience," many of whom feel comfortable commenting on it, while willing admitting they won't read her book.

It reminds me of the whole Joe Morgan and Moneyball thing. In that situation, Joe Morgan had heard some things about the book and immediately made some absurd criticism about it and Billy Beane. His steadfastly refused to read the book, and used heresay to make some flat out wrong conclusions (one of them was that Billy Beane had written the book). In the end, he looked like a ridiculous curmudgeon.

Rosealie probably hasn't included everybody in her book (it would take a long time to do so, and even then wouldn't be thorough), but nor do the posters take inot account the whole experience of AB.

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Nope no locks for this. I myself follow this thread. And while true this thing has spiraled out from the topic at hand. It continues to progress. Untill names and other such derogatory remarks are made, the thread is open for discussion. But that aside.. I will remark on my point of view if I may.

I am not one for degrees, never liked the whole idea. But I was forced to have one (or three actually) by this society in which we live. That being said, About 90% of what was taught in a school environment is worthless drivel. In my opinion, anyone who is or was smart enough to obtain a degree, are in itself smart to start with. In dealing with Military and major companies at corporate levels, I see the same old thing. College people are routinely snobs.

Now I am not pointing fingers at those in this thread. I am talking real world knowledge here. While not as old as some, I have been around as it where. I have been to every state of these United. I have been to somewhere around I believe 16 or more for foreign countries. That in itself isn't saying alot, but it does have some merit as to my experiences in meeting and observing people of varying levels and culture.

One of my biggest pet peeves is those with degrees who believe that piece of paper gives them some right over others. I can assure you that is doesn't As I mentioned I have three B.S. degrees.. I say this, to me the B.S. stands for what it is, Bull Shit! I worked for a Major aerospace giant. I came into them with over 12 years of experience and no degree. I did however have college level education that was at least equivalent to most around me.

I got tired of daily, those uppity young college kids, sitting at their computers, day after day, and coming out with nothing to help the projects we were tasked with. All the while riding on that little piece of paper. For instance. We had a Major demonstration for the Army regarding a new system that "We" developed. We were using some state of the art testing station that was used in diagnostics that the Army had provided. Just before Lunch time during the " Dog and Pony show" Something failed in the test station. While it looked like our Project was at fault. They broke for lunch and all the Higher than mighty big wigs left. I came out of my Lab past where this all was going down to see one of my actual friends pulling out his hair. I had him show me what was happening at the fail point. Now mind you, I had not directly worked on this project, but was in the loop somewhat.

After a few minutes of watching the testing process fail and tracing to a known good in our equipment. I grabbed the Library of books for the test station. As I looked through schematics of the station, my friend stared in awe. I had him probing along lines and terminals while I traced through in the books. I found the problem with the station and much to my friends relief. It was his Unit that was failing and his computer test program that was running. He asked me how the hell I could do what I did. If I had used that Test station or something in the Marines. I told him, Nope. Never seen it before.

Now mind you this was a MULTI million dollar contract. This was the final sale demo. I was a pee on "tech". the building was full of Every damn college degree imaginable. So, what happened. I told him I couldn't fix the test station as the part wasn't available in our inventory. So my friend made the call to his supervisor to inform him what was going on. When he came back with all the big wigs. He came up to us and asked what we could do. I showed him the error and proved that the problem wasn't in the code or equipment on our end. He was freaking out, Didn't know what to tell them. I told him to just change that line of text in the code so that when it said go-no go, to well, just "go" anyway and not to fault. He looked at me, then to my friend then back to all the dignitaries coming our way. He told my friend "do it". So he edited out that line. Cheating, yeah it was, but we knew something had to be done. They ran the rest of the afternoon with no failures and the Army Signed off on the project. I ordered and fixed their station part a few days later.

Okay my point? Maybe i don't have one. But as I see it in the simplest terms. Rosalie has stated She is with a AB, She has stated in the past that she has interviewed others. What is the problem. Do you all need more than that? As was said she isn't claiming to be the all knowledgeable person on the subject of us. She is claiming a incite of us and her opinion based on what she has learned and what works for her. And others views based on what she has written. While you can ask her, Why? What? and Who? What the heck does it matter? If you don't want to read the book don't, if you don't want to attend her seminar then don't. You have all the info you need at this point. She is doing what she is doing on her own. She has her way of doing it, and you all know that part. So why dig any deeper? It is what it is. Sure some questions in this thread are valid, but the over and over thing is just ridiculous.

She has in the past told you how she arrived and published her book, this in itself should answer her creditability and views. It's her damn seminar, her rules. Just like this is a site owned by another. So just go with it folks. Chill out and put this thread back on topic, make another for bickering if you must. But for Christ sakes, leave the woman alone on her views. If she is what she is, then she is! Period. And that's all I gotta say about that! :P

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but just as with her book rosalie ASKED for criticism and comments and ideas .... i asked if she were goong to have others speaking at her event and she flipped out ...

in past threads some of which she herself deleted!! she posts her answers with no 'in my opinoon' or 'in my experience' but rather makes statements as if they were facts and never once reminds the reader it is her opinion .... than will refer members 'well if you read my book....' but she herself does not answer direct questions and as she has shown in her numerous responses cannot infact handle criticism .....

dont start a thread askin people for their input on holding a seminar and then not be willing to answer some direct questions without becoming deffensive and passive agressive

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@roasalie

What my entire argument is and has been about is not your opinion. It is what you put forth as a statement of fact, not a statement of opinion. There is a world of difference between the two. If indeed your statement is opinion, please state such. People do make mistakes, and I believe that you are no exception. Now on the other hand if your statement is indeed a statement of fact, I would still like to know what experience or qualifications that you posess (in specific) that put you in a place to make such a statement of fact.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, and you and I are no exception. I think a large part of this on my end anyways is how things are phrased. It can make a large amount of difference in the way things are taken. I learned this fact a long time ago, when I was still fresh in sales and marketing.

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