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Rant: Just Sayin' (Letting My Inner Curmudgeon Out For A Minute)


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I do very much love reading stories here and elsewhere as much, if not more so than writing them. However, I just gotta get this stuff off my chest, whether anyone who is actually writing gives a crap or not.

Character vital information and background:

If you start off with an info dump (So and so is x years old, stands x height, weighs x pounds, blah blah blah) I'm done reading your story right there; I do not give a flying shit if what follows is the next Great Expectations. If you expect me to care about your character, make me care about your character, don't give me a Dungeons and Dragons stat sheet and expect me to be even remotely interested. It's really not hard to weave vital info into the opening chapters of the story where it becomes important, i.e. when I actually need to know that your character is only 5 feet tall (for example, when s/he has trouble seeing in a crowd, or finds him/herself staring up at something most people would be seeing on eye level), or how old they are, which is something that can be artfully woven INTO the story, for example, a particular scene in the middle school cafeteria where the protagonist finds him/herself having anxiety about entering high school the following year (putting them at age 14-15) or having him/her just completing a 4-year college degree (putting them at age 21-23). Info dump = lazy fiction writing. Ever seen a Stephen King book that leads off with an info dump? How about Tom Clancey? Anne Rice? Hell, even the tackiest, most cookie-cutter smut romance novels don't introduce their characters with an info dump. DON'T DO IT. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

Punishment in General

You'd think by now every would-be writer on this and every other forum has seen enough of the parent who freaks out and goes "ZOMG (character name) you horrible creature! I can't believe you didn't rinse your plate before you put it in the dishwasher! Clearly, the only proper penance for this egregious sin is turning your room into a nursery, putting you in diapers, dressing you like a baby, and publicly humiliating you at every possible opportunity from now until you turn 30!!!!" followed by the character (regardless of age) casually going "Wait, no, stop, I'll be good" and whimpering a bit while passively allowing it all to happen. It's so cliche, nearly every AB story forum has its own spoof version! Shouldn't this tell you something about using it as a substitute for a plot?

Sadly, either they haven't, or they assume the rest of us haven't, because it still happens. People still publish this and other ridiculously cliche and mind-blowingly unrealistic punishment stories (with the descriptions of their humiliating adventures being the sum of the plot line), with no regard for even putting a decent spin on it. CUT IT OUT ALREADY!!!!

Spanking

Yeah, it's a fundamental part of most AB fiction. Great. A lot of people need to learn how to emote this action, instead of treating it clinically. What do I mean? Giving me a count is clinical (so and so gave so and so 35 spanks with a two by four wrapped in barbed wire and studded with rusty nails). I don't want to read that crap! Give me a point-of-view moment here! (so and so grit her teeth, screeching through them as the metal laid open the tender flesh of her buttocks, while she reflexively rubbed her clitoris against so and so's thighs, the pain amplifying her sexual excitement) Okay, that was a little weird, but you get the point... :drive1:

Diaper Changes (and things that happen to necessitate them)

Yes, again, I understand that this is a fundamental part of AB fiction. It ain't the whole plot - or if it is, you need to reconsider your plot, or at least tag it as a scat porno, not an AB story. The last thing I want to read is a plot constantly interrupted every two or three sentences by a graphic description of bowel/bladder activity and/or a diaper change. This is even worse when combined with the clinical spanking episodes (yes, there's a current active that fits this description, but they ain't the first, by any stretch), where it devolves into spank-diaper change-spank-diaper change-spank-diaper change and on and on until one's eyes begin bleeding. In short: Repetition = bad. Creativity = good. This ain't Dr. Seuss, folks, and if you think it should be, consider that he hated kids...

Okay, I'm done. Back to your regularly scheduled... Aw fuck! Not again!!!!!! :bash:

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As a writer, I agree with what you are saying. Personally, I stay away from writing about punishment or humiliation and try to weave diaper-wearing and gender issues in with the reality of my characters' lives. If you work hard enough at it, even the most off-the-wall fiction can be written so that it is believable. I liked your suggestion about not dumping a full description of the main character on the readers all at once. Just out of curiosity, have you done any writing? I'll bet you'd be really good at it.

It's funny that one of the authors you mentioned is Anne Rice. She wrote the "Sleeping Beauty Trilogy" under the name A.N. Roquelaure. You'd need asbestos pot holders to hang onto those books. Sorry about that--asbestos is illegal and unsafe. Make that Nomex.

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It's not just here or just ABDL stories- this is something that happens across-the-board with unusual or less-widely-accepted scenarios because most of these writers are not professional authors. But I do agree with most of what WB Daddy said. Before depression killed the part in me which lets me write well, I was something of an acclaimed up-and-coming writer in the small sectors in which I wrote. It took me years and lots of input to get there. The toughest thing for me to do was to integrate the advice i took into my style without losing my distinct writing style and personality in the process. The best writing comes from the heart, indeed I believe that the only good writing comes friom there. To me that is evident quickly when I begin reading a story. It's not just outlandish scenarios or not slowly exposing personal stats; it's whether you're telling a story or simpkly writing something down which is needed to expalin something else you're trying to say. The whole story must be good, not just the juicy parts!

I do not like many of the popular fiction writers of today because many of them tell a good story but their writing seems to be forced, and their themes limited even if they are popular. Your best writing will come when it wants to and you should wait for that when you write your important stories. All the most famous authors in histiory were like this- they wrote quickies to pay the bills then worked on their masterpieces only when they felt like it- and some took years off in the middle of their best works. Anyone can write a story and we see a lot of that. Not just anyone an write a great story and those who can usually don't write a lot of those in their career in comparison to their lesser works which are often forgotten.

Be creative in your writing- seek out the unusual angles and settings which enhance the humanity of your characters. Don't just cover the pertinant parts which are needed for your story; put in what I call 'factlets' which show thier human side even when they don't relate directly to your story. I like black licorice better than red. That in itself may not matter but I can use it to effect: "Betty saw the black sweater in the window and she liked it better than the identical red one, even though she really liked red sweaters. She wondered if it was because she had just passed the candy store and had a craving for black licorice which she likes better than the red kind." This shows something of my personality and my foibles which makes me a more believable (and hopefully a more likeable) character, even if it has nothing to do with the storyline!

I do not wish to discourage anyone from trying to write a story if they want to. It was one of the most fulfilling things I have ever exerienced in my life and I am trying to get it back. It was also one of the biggest heartbreaks to hear from friends that my story stank, and for me to heed their advice about changes I needed to make to be a better writer. In believing them and trying I learned to be good at writing- then hearing from my friends about how good my story was became something I lived for. Reviews can be scathing but they can point you in the right direction to do better- the rest is up to you. Like with romance, let your heart lead you then let your mind show the numerous paths that can take you there. Fill in the details along the way- a story may be just recounting a journey (real or imagined) but there's more to it than just the path with a begining and an end. How you discover those things to your readers is what makes the biggest difference in how well they will like your story.

Bettypooh

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There's just so much in this thread to agree with.

I really don't want to re-hash what has already been said. WB and Betty both made some great points and offer some good advice for anyone willing to listen.

That said, I wanted to offer something a little more positive: The state of the ab/dl writing community is light years beyond what it was years ago, when I first found people with similar interests as me on the Internet. When I was a young teenager, stumbling on the internet for the first times and seeking out ab/dl stories, the ONLY thing I could find were the types of stories that WBDaddy described (and mocked, for good reason) earlier. Since then, I've seen some incredibly clever takes on the subject in stories I've read over the years. They're not as plentiful as I would like (again, new readers, please refer to the the posts above mine. Print them out. Tattoo them on your arms), but they're there.

My optimistic hope is that as new people search the internet for ab/dl stories for the first time, they are having a much easier time finding fresh and original writing on the subject and are inspired to write similarly.

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All that said... I apparently need to work on my comedy schtick, as I seem to be the only one who laughed out loud at the "two-by-four wrapped in barbed wire and studded with rusty nails"...

Or does slapstick just not convey as well over the internet as it does on the movie screen?

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No, I smiled at the mental image WBDaddy. I chuckled a little at the descriptive point of view. It's rare for me to find something genuinely funny enough to laugh a little, so thanks! :)

I agree with everything you said. That said, the introduction is the hardest part. Overall, some very good points and tips on things to watch out for. :thumbsup:

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WB, you are by far one of the best writers on this site and I've gobbled up just about everything you've written here. I have great respect for you and I think for the most part your points are well taken. Good writing tops even the subject matter of the story. There have been a few of your stories that I wouldn't have read if it were not for your writing ability. The most interesting story line written by a hack just doesn't make it.

Having said that, I will say that when I write I do it mostly for myself. I enjoy the (my) process and looking over what I've written. One huge weakness of everything I've ever written is that the beginning of the story is just a different set up for what comes next. My fantasy is the wearing and using diapers forced on an adult male with a fair amount of bondage mixed in. Even for those who enjoy that same fantasy, this gets pretty boring. And most people here just are not in to that kind of story.

A few people here have read my stories and think I'm a pretty good writer. I don't want to insult them, but I'm thinking their standards are pretty low. I have an ability to write with decent spelling and fairly decent grammar. As to the plots and story lines, they are not realistic nor for any but a limited audience very interesting.

But I didn't put this here to bash myself, though I'm good at that. My reason for posting this is to say that for me at least, I write stories about the fantasies in my life that will never be lived out. Further they are only fantasies in that I don't think I'd really enjoy the situation if I were to be subjected to the treatment I yearn for in those fantasies. Also, they run into the obvious paradox: if you want to be forced into diapers and made to use them, are you really being forced?

I won't defend the info-dump people, the horrible speelers, bad grammar user people no punctuation people solid block of print for pages people, etc. However, I will defend those who write their own fantasies - whatever they may be. Their audiences will undoubtedly be limited to those who share that fantasy or can at least enjoy identifying with such a fantasy. So go ahead with the 2x4 wrapped in barbed wire - I don't like spankings in general, but you're such a good writer that if you write me into a scene like that, I'd read it!

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However, I will defend those who write their own fantasies - whatever they may be. Their audiences will undoubtedly be limited to those who share that fantasy or can at least enjoy identifying with such a fantasy. So go ahead with the 2x4 wrapped in barbed wire - I don't like spankings in general, but you're such a good writer that if you write me into a scene like that, I'd read it!

By all means, I'm not suggesting anyone not write fantasies - but make them compelling. Hell, we just had the classic evil babysitter presentation happen a few days ago ("Those Golden Curls" by exhex) - but it was written so well, it was easy to forget I was reading a story line I've seen a million times before - he made it come alive with his attention to detail and his deliberate pacing. When he ended it, my gut screamed "NO WAIT - you gotta tell me what happened after..." - even though I pretty well knew...

Oh - and there is a psychological answer to your paradox. The fantasy of being forced into diapers stems from a subconscious guilt about the desire. It's like a safe zone - if someone compels you to do something against your will, you're not on the hook for it happening.

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  • 2 weeks later...

All that said... I apparently need to work on my comedy schtick, as I seem to be the only one who laughed out loud at the "two-by-four wrapped in barbed wire and studded with rusty nails"...

Or does slapstick just not convey as well over the internet as it does on the movie screen?

This made me chuckle as the first thing that popped into my head was Mick Foley, or more precise Cactus Jack, going to town on a more than bewildered Terry Funk.

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  • 1 month later...

Any story that begins with "your typical five foot six, hundred-and-five-pound blonde, small for her age" turns me off instantly. I like my characters to mature slowly, to grow on the vine. Better to start with a Martini, stirred not shaken, than a full curriculum vitae. The characters will pad themselves out as the story develops, anyway. The whole object of story-telling is to draw the reader in, not to batter them into insensibility.

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Any story that begins with "your typical five foot six, hundred-and-five-pound blonde, small for her age" turns me off instantly. I like my characters to mature slowly, to grow on the vine. Better to start with a Martini, stirred not shaken, than a full curriculum vitae. The characters will pad themselves out as the story develops, anyway. The whole object of story-telling is to draw the reader in, not to batter them into insensibility.

Yeah, if the word "average" enters your first sentence and it's not an ironic descriptor of something shocking ("It was just an average bloodbath, forty-seven dead bodies piled up neatly in one corner of the McDonalds, me quietly munching a Big Mac in another...") then I'm pretty much done reading.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Perhaps I differ on one point. I prefer to know the age fo the characters. Any story about teens or younger I will probably not read. Another pet peeve is not knowing the sex of a character. This seems to happen more often with the narrator in first-person stories. Also sexual persuasion can come into the picture. Personally, I do not want to read gay male stories. i know that last sentence may offend some, but I am not trying to censor anyone. I am just not interested in that.

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Perhaps I differ on one point. I prefer to know the age fo the characters.

There are plenty of ways to give information about the character other than an info dump at the opening.

For example, your protagonist is 19 years old. You could say something about how glad he/she is to be through the stress of their first year of college. Or you could talk about how high school seemed like forever ago, even though he/she was just standing on the graduation podium (or dancing at the prom) last summer. Being creative about giving information gives the reader a chance to connect with the character.

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  • 7 months later...

Sorry, I need to get my rant on. I've come across some really good stories lately. But then I've come across things that make me want to slam my dick against the keyboard and see what happens, because I think there are authors that genuinely use this method. (And no, that's not a knock against smut stories. There are some amazing pure smut stories. I should know, I've read them. I'm beginning to think that some people just literally bang on a keyboard and see what happens.)

I still consider myself as "new" since I'm still writing my second story, and there's a one shot that I'm maybe half way finished with before I post...so I'm trying desperately not to criticize people, because the nice part of me wants to encourage my peers and bring out the best in them. I think the closest I came to criticizing someone was when I oh-so-delicately nitpicked a Wonder Woman fan-fic and tried to spin it for some ideas where the author could go with it. (If you don't know who my avatar is, you don't have the slightest idea how much of a comic geek I am.)

Then there are the ones that I read...well...bwaaaaa...here's a synopsis.

(Starts with info dump) Girl is getting ready for a date. Her brief inner monologue says that she wants to go to a Halloween party held by her kind of nerdy but still hot friend. (Clearly the author is living vicariously.) She's hoping that he will ask her out to be his girlfriend. Cut to the nerd who is at his party that no one has shown up to. His inner monologue says that he's hoping she gets there soon so that he can ask her out.

She's running VERY LATE...and really has to go to the bathroom. She gets to the not-so-swinging party, and he brings her over to the couch and is about to ask her to be his girlfriend, when she loses control and wets herself and his couch. "Well I know how to treat a baby like you!" he says. Then he picks her up throws her on a bed and says...God I wish I didn't have to even paraphrase this. "You forgot that I can change reality! I made you late so I could turn you into my baby sister!"

And then he turns her into a baby in mind and body, makes her shit herself as revenge for peeing on his couch...never mind that he's supposedly able to manipulate reality so that didn't need to happen, and he caused it so he shouldn't be mad... So wait...he was about to ask her out...then he gets mad...but it was his plan all along to make her.....aasjidgehastgaiohwetoihaweasrghfgouiwetweruhqwerhiouwerouipwrtyiyjlk (got so mad I used the aforementioned writing method.) There are so many things wrong with something like this that I don't know where to begin. And the nice part of me wants to do constructive criticism, but construction implies that you've given me materials to build with.

I just want to post "THIS IS WHY PEOPLE MAKE FUN OF US!" That's not even the worst of it, but it's the straw that breaks the camel's back because clearly the author has SOME grasp of how to write a sentence at least. Oh wait, maybe I could write that as constructive criticism.

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