Wow.. My Conservative College Did Something Good!

[Guest MunchKitten]

So I was at our GSA today when the leader of student life for my college asked to speak with me. I'm taking her leadership classes, and I'm on the election board (a very high up on one (Co President I think (I should have won, waiting until next week for results), webmaster at another GSA and this one).. She told me that the school is getting three gender neutral bathrooms next semester. and (this is whats amazed me). She gave me an "out of order" sign for one of the bathrooms (that is an official sign that the school uses, its not scribbled on a piece of notebook paper). So I can have my own private bathroom whenever I put the sign up..

Thats like so Wickedly awesome, they normally have a "Don't ask don't tell" policy about LGBT stuff, and it seems to be going away, and its so awesome. The leader of student life really likes me for some reason, maybe its because I'm breaking the bounds of all of the "profiling" that goes on with the few transgenders that have gone to the school before me.

I might set out and change the way my college looks at transgenders, I've already created a website for our GSA with a lot of links for trans issues.. I'm out to change the world only with a bottle of estrogen LOL.

[Bettypooh]

Waaaaay good Just remember that slow change is easier for everyone and more likely to remain after the cause of it is gone And don't abuse any priveleges you have- nobody is any better than anybody else unless that other person makes themselves worse or lesser by their own volition.

Bettypooh

[d_drew12]

That's nice. Tuition being spent on that huh, for a handfull of students. So you get basically your own private bathroom and everyone else still has to share. Gee, that seems fair. Now how about we go back to having bathrooms for blacks, whites, hispanics, and anyone elso who has varying sexual preferences so we all don't have to share bathrooms anymore. Stop trying to make the world cater to YOUR indivudual needs. I don't think it's right you because of a sexuality choice get your own private bathroom. F-in politics is all it is trying to make you feel good about yourself.

[Brutal]

What's wrong with simply using the women's bathroom and going into a stall? Hello? I'm unclear as to why a private bathroom is necessary if you are using the female bathroom?

Please please don't take this as being offensive, but can you credibly pass as a girl? If so, you should simply use the female bathroom and close the stall door. Last time I checked (I was a lifeguard in my teens and cleaned the womens and the mens bathrooms as part of the job) THE WOMEN'S bathrooms all had toilets with stalls with doors that closed.

Why do you need a private bathroom?

I can understand being happy that you are getting special treatment, but don't you want "EQUAL" treatment? Isn't that what your group is striving for? To not be seen as any different than anyone else?

Doing this kind of action actually HURTS your cause... because it gives those right winger's ammunition to fire at you. Their most common complaint is that you don't want equality you want special treatments and concenssions at the expense of everyone else. Using that sign promotes that assertion. So in a way, each time you use it, you are giving the opposition more power to hold you down.

Don't take the token gesture. Not if what you are striving for is equality. And remember this, it's not just YOU involved here. It's all of the GLBT community that is affected by your actions. Like it or not, you are a representative... even more so if you are (CO-PRESIDENT). If I were a journalist for the school newspaper, I'd have a FIELD DAY with the story.

Here is a scenario for you to consider:

"If I were the current president, I might pretend to be your friend and give you the sign and HOPE you'd use it so I could remain in power after you were ousted for abuse of authority.

And I'd deny I gave you the sign. I'd say you stole it... and that you didn't represent the community on campus and why should you be treated like a princess while the rest of the transgenders on campus have to struggle? Why didn't you fight for THEM to get signs? Because you are a leader who only cares about themselves."

You don't know why they like you so much and would be so nice to you? That should be your FIRST warning sign chica!

Timeo Danaos Et Dona Ferentes (I fear the Greeks, even when the come bearing gifts) - Virgil's Anead

If you want some heartfelt advice, give the sign back. Tell them you thought about using it and you appreciate the gesture. But it's not right that you should have one while everyone else doesn't. Add to the verbage by saying "I also wonder if it wouldn't give our opposition more ammunition against us, we're seeking equality not special treatment and favors."

You want to earn MAJOR points with your constituents... that's the way to do it. And I'd do it now, not later. Because if someone you are running against politically wants to cruxify you, then you only have a moment before they pounce on you with this and destroy your credibility.

All the best,

Brutal

[Guest MunchKitten]

Um No, I don't pass, and I didn't ask for the sign. and I've only been at school for a month now, you both really should stay out of this subforum if your just going to be a douche.

[BabyLex]

Short Lex Reply:

Nice! That's awesome to hear! I hope things continue to improve!

--Lex

[danbk]

D_Drew,

It sickens me that people think everyone should conform to what society's norms are and not respect that everyone is different and has their own differences.

I think you may have missed the point when it was stated they are getting Gender Neutral restroom facilities. Gender neutral means exactly that. For some, it is difficult to grasp, but gender is not only Male/Female. Some people do not feel they fit into the male/female genders that society deems as standard, they view themselves as gender-neutral, non-binary, or another view and don't feel they fit into either category of the generally accepted of society's "standard" genders/sexes. I know this is a very general explanation of it and does not do it justice, but I hope you get the idea and can understand that people shouldn't have to bend to your will to feel proper about themselves.

For those who are in transition, it is also great because if they have anxiety about their situation, it gives them an option to avoid the awkward situation of using a single-gender restroom as well as keeping them from being outed inadvertently and creating a hostile situation (as we know there are many a-holes in this world).

The fact that the school is taking such a step in recognizing these types of issues is stunning and a huge step forward.

As someone else said, if you can't be constructive, you shouldn't even have came into this forum to bash what someone has put out.

I think this is along the same type of idea as a Family Restroom that has begun to become standard at many shopping venues. These are great for families with young children so they don't have to take them into an opposite gender restroom as well as giving them privacy for diaper changes, etc. For those in the incontinent world who want privacy to change when out of the house, it gives them what they need to function without fear of being discovered or embarrassed about their condition.

I'm beginning to ramble and go on pointlessly so I'll end, but congratulations MunchKitten. That is great news!

[d_drew12]

I don't mind the unisex bathrooms, everyone can use them and it elimates places from requiring two bathrooms when one is really only needed. I'll bet a lot of people are doing the unisex bathrooms out of financial gains and not to cater to the transgender population. However, what I do mind is that you are getting special treatment because of what you are. I agree with Brutal in the fact that you want to be equal so be equal and don't get special treatment even if it's handed to you, politely decline. It would show some self respect and personal pride if you handed the pass back to whomever gave it to you and said, "No, I don't need special treatment. You are treating this as a special needs case when you want to be just like everyone else. Maybe people have the wrong idea but you are not special needs. If I decide I was born with the wrong hair color or skin type, should I ask for something different in life too? It's hard to come up with a comparison to a subject such as the bathroom but I'll do my best. I for example, am not the type to go into a gym or locker room and strip down naked infront of everyone in large showers. So if I'm in sports or a member to a gym or even in gym class in school, should I ask for a private stall because I maybe different from the rest who are comfortable with it? I don't get it, but that's LIFE!! I have to conform to it too. You see, EVERYBODY has to conform, not just a transgender, gay, bisexual, whatever so stop asking for people to transform to your needs. You say Munchkitten you are "out to change the world one bottle of estrogen at a time." What exactly are you planning on changing? You want the world to conform to your needs? Funny how many people here are saying I need to conform yet you're trying to conform us to your wants. You all here seem to be ready and willing to kick the staight guy out for giving a little critisism here but if I kicked you out of a staight persons forum, well then, I would be discriminating, homophobic, whatever you want to call it but it would bode well. It's all so hypocrytical and this stuff pisses me off. To those people here, stop being so damn righteous and take a look at what your saying and if I reversed the situation what you'd be saying.

So give back the pass and I could if a crap about what you want to do with your body.

[Guest MunchKitten]

our accessable bathrooms are still one sex.

[Bettypooh]

[quote name='d_drew12' date='25 September 2009 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1253856643'

So give back the pass and I could if a crap about what you want to do with your body.

So go try using a public mens room in a dress before making up your mind about the subject. Then you'll understand that it's people like you that are the problem- and that's why you don't like the solution To follow your logic to the end, let's eliminate all the "priveleges"(including yours)and have ONLY unisex bathrooms You can't argue that two are needed when everyone shares bathrooms in their homes- that proves that only one type of bathroom is needed for everybody If you still think more than one is needed then why not 3? It's reasoning is as legitimate as the reasoning for 2 bathrooms.

Bettypooh

[d_drew12]

Bettypooh you really need to edit your post, I'm not sure what you did but you quoted me saying everything you said like a double post or something. Anyway, not sure what part you were trying to take out from my post but I couldn't care less if there were all unisex bathrooms. The problem though with that is obiously they'd all have to be 1 holers, thus the reason for the larger bathrooms that are gender specific, not the same as your house. I really don't understand your response as you're implying I argued that "two are needed when everyone shares bathrooms in their home-that proves that only one type of bathroomis needed for everybody". I never said anything about that. What I said if you read my post is companies often don't have a need for two bathrooms and opt on having one unisex bathroom instead. It's a cost and space savings for them more than anything. I never argued about the number of bathrooms and started out by saying I don't mind unisex bathrooms. What I do mind is people being allowed to have certain bathroom privilages that myself or anyone else doesn't get such as the OP with the special pass. Now to me, that's discriminating against everyone else who isn't transgender because they will not be afforded the same privilages because of who they are. If we are going to give special passes out then why don't we segragate everyone into which bathrooms they can use too. I know there's obviously the men and womens but how about we go back to black and white, disable, enabled, tall, short, thick, thin. Give everyone a pass because of who "THEY" are. Maybe I'm a guy who doesn't feel comfortable peeing along side 4 other guys so then should I get a pass too? If I got a special pass because I'm a tall white male, there would be plenty of issues received from other people. The schools to afraid and is tiptoeing around these types of subjects you bring up because they do not want a lawsuit so to prevent one, they are actually treating you as a special case and segregating you once again from the rest instead of being just like everyone else. I guess what I'm really trying to say is, it's BS that you get a privilage nobody but people like yourself get, other peoples money are being spent on building bathrooms because of how you feel and how you look. Get over it, people who are burn victims, missing half there face and missing limbs probably have issues about how they look everyday but don't ask for a different store to shop in or bathroom to use and you're worried about walking into a mens bathroom with a dress on. If you're worried about what people will say if a person in a dress walks into a mens bathroom, tell them why or tell them nothing, either way most won't give two sh!ts while your giving one(suppose to be funny) no more than if you're walking down the hall, or use the females, it's not like your going to stand a pee and whip it out for everyone to realize you have dick in a female restroom. I've used a female bathroom before when the mens was full and I've seen plenty of females use the mens, big deal.

[Guest MunchKitten]

Alright asshole, try living the life of a normal transgender for a week. Report back.. you'll see how important this is.

[danbk]

I guess what I'm really trying to say is, it's BS that you get a privilage nobody but people like yourself get, other peoples money are being spent on building bathrooms because of how you feel and how you look.

I don't understand your point. So by your reasoning, we should get rid of all of the following special accommodations as well for handicapped people BECAUSE THEY GET SPECIAL PRIVILEGES: handicap parking spaces, ramps, special doors that open automatically at the push of a button on the wall, SPECIALIZED HANDICAPPED STALLS, parking permits, etc that are all mandated by law at the expense, i might add, of everyone's money in public facilities/government offices, etc. We should do away with special payments to veterans disabled in the line of duty, we should get rid of anything that anyone receives based on a special circumstance so that we are all treated equally without respect to anything whatsoever.

By your reasoning, these people should hand their special permits back to the state, tell the federal government they don't want their assistance to help them function just a little easier in a society made for the non-handicapped and disabled veterans should turn down any additional disability, etc they receive from the government just so they can "be like everyone else."

Pull your head outta your ass man.

Being TG is not a handicap, but it does hold its own set of complications. A non-gender bathroom is just that, call it unisex, call it what you need. How is it adding anything at additional cost more-so than if they would have called it a "Family Restroom" except for the fact that it's on an educational campus so they called it something different.

[Diseased88]

LMAO, arguing over bathrooms on a diaper forum =D

[danbk]

LMAO, arguing over bathrooms on a diaper forum =D

Ironic isn't it?

[danbk]

Well ... the argument of using which bathroom coming up when this is a diaper forum is a bit ironic, but I still support Munchkin and think it's awesome the progress that has been made at her school.

[Brutal]

Um No, I don't pass, and I didn't ask for the sign. and I've only been at school for a month now, you both really should stay out of this subforum if your just going to be a douche.

I'm not being a douche. I'm being practical. As for saying I should stay out of a subforum for being a douche, go ahead and tell me what is "douche" about stating that striving for equality is more important than achieving special accomodations.

You are not the only TG on campus, you are a self proported activist... what have you done to get them signs?

Maybe you're upset that people on the forum read your post and asked you some hard questions?

It's amusing that you equate special treatment with making an advancement. I'm sure that any handicapped person would gladly trade thier special priveldges to be able to walk again or have a fully functional body/mind/nervous system.

I don't disagree that there should be more unisex/family bathrooms. But the thought of closing down a public restroom so that you don't feel self conscious is kind of confusing.

Since I am not TG/CD whatever... enlighten me in a polite manner. Help me understand the plight. It is what activist do right?

Here is what really confuses me:

If you are dressing as a woman, living as a woman... what keeps you from using the men's bathroom? what keeps you from using the womens bathroom?

If it's that you are self conscious about being in a men's bathroom, why? Don't the guys already see you in the hall and in their classrooms and on campus? What difference would it make if they saw you in the bathroom? Are you afraid of verbal or physical abuse?

Is it that the womens bathrooms are cleaner and there isn't as much dried urine on the toilet seats?

Are you afraid of getting arrested if you use the female bathroom?

Enlighten me as to why you should have these special priveldges? If it is because you are self conscious, should people who wear diapers all be given special signs too? So that when they change in a stall nobody hears the tapes ripping or the person putting the football sized used adult diaper in the trash can?

I can understand handicap access because I was in a wheel chair for a few months. But no handicap person ever closed down the entire bathroom to use it. They usually have one stall and it has bars so that if you are in a chair you can actually get onto the toilet.

But explain to me why a TG would need special access?

What is the "PRACTICAL" reason for it?

For those of you in the TG community, instead of simply calling people a douche why not provide the actual insight?

I'll check back in a few days and hopefully one of you will have the ability to explain it in a rational way.

-Brutal

[Guest MunchKitten]

1) thanks to my parents I can't dress as female

2) it is ILLEGAL for me to go into the Woman's restroom

and I didn't ask for anything, it was given to me, I could care less, I have no problem holding it in all day.

[Guest MunchKitten]

I think you're moving incredibly quickly to be already taking the activist standpoint.

It's good, but unusual to me. Probably a cultural thing.

I'm one of the people fighting to get the same sort of protection for gender identity as the school has for sexual identity (several teachers are gay/lesbian).. I love what my GSA thinks "Oh, shes trans, she should be in this, could be important!

[Brutal]

1) thanks to my parents I can't dress as female

2) it is ILLEGAL for me to go into the Woman's restroom

and I didn't ask for anything, it was given to me, I could care less, I have no problem holding it in all day.

Okay...

I understand point 2 on the legality issue. You are not dressing as a woman because you parents won't let you, so why can't you use the men's room? I'm not being a jerk I simply want to understand the situation.

On point 1, are you still living at home? If you are in college what keeps you from dressing like a female? THey let you take hormone therapy but they won't less you dress like a woman? Or are you sneaking the hormone therapy? If you are sneaking the hormone therapy then why can't you sneak the clothing?

As far as holding it in, I don't think anyone should have to do that. You should be able to use the male restroom if it's the one the law insists you use. People should leave you alone in the bathroom. If they harass you, then they should be reprimanded by the university officials. If it comes to any physical abuse or hate speech, then it should go to campus police.

Personally, I'd like to see all unisex bathrooms on college campuses. I can see a point to not having the same showering area from a safety standpoint. But usually people aren't showering outside the dorm or thier own house. Maybe the gyms need to have a unisex family shower room.

My contention is that with all of the fights that are out there andthe unjustified hatred that abounds about the alternative community, I don't think it is a good move to accept any "token" treatments. Now you and anyone else can disagree with me but here is how I see some angles to the scenario:

The university gives out the signs to your student group. It placates your group and it makes you feel like you've won a victory.

The university doesn't have to put up anything which would be an official policy statement or change, because they are just handing out signs.

Alumni and conservative donators don't get wind of it, and don't pull their philanthropic donations from the college.

If it's made policy, which is really what needs to happen. Or if they pass any anti-discrimination in the bathrooms legislation on the college level. Then it opens up a bag of Public relations nightmares.

The liberal press will be on it asking: "Does your conservative college have hate mongers?" Why the policy change?

THe conservative press will be asking: "How do your god fearing christian donators feel about you wasting resources?" "Is this how you are spending the money? On writing policies to protect a group of sinners?" "Do you promote this kind of behavior at your college?"

So in truth, that's a pretty big reason for the college to make these token gestures. It's good PR but only for a limited segment of their incoming population. And if it comes back on them, they can say the didn't want to do it, but reached a compromise because they were afraid of teh legal lawsuit from the GLBT student association. Hence, they were defending the college without giving that group a solid footing on anything and delay costly lawsuits and negative PR.

I think it's important to pick the right battles in any movement. My perception is that it will simply cause the wrong kind of attention to your movement. You want the public to be on your side and associate with your plight. If they feel that you are treated better than everyone else, it will hurt the chances that they'll be able to identify with your group. Which in turn results in a lower level of public and private support.

-Brutal

[d_drew12]

Alright asshole, try living the life of a normal transgender for a week. Report back.. you'll see how important this is.

Now that's not very lady like. I not once called you a name and was just questioning this whole topic and discussing it. I could say the same for you, try living a non-transgender life, like it's sooooo much easier. Sure, being a TG I'm sure has it's difficulties but so does someone in a wheelchair, overweight, deformed, even the quote "normal" people as you may see them. People fight with there looks all day, male, female, TG. It probably really only matters when any of these people are in public but pretty much everybody has the same daily sh!t to deal with(bills, relationships, friend, family).

As far as the message on the whole disability thing,

I guess what I'm really trying to say is, it's BS that you get a privilage nobody but people like yourself get, other peoples money are being spent on building bathrooms because of how you feel and how you look.

I don't understand your point. So by your reasoning, we should get rid of all of the following special accommodations as well for handicapped people BECAUSE THEY GET SPECIAL PRIVILEGES: handicap parking spaces, ramps, special doors that open automatically at the push of a button on the wall, SPECIALIZED HANDICAPPED STALLS, parking permits, etc that are all mandated by law at the expense, i might add, of everyone's money in public facilities/government offices, etc. We should do away with special payments to veterans disabled in the line of duty, we should get rid of anything that anyone receives based on a special circumstance so that we are all treated equally without respect to anything whatsoever.

By your reasoning, these people should hand their special permits back to the state, tell the federal government they don't want their assistance to help them function just a little easier in a society made for the non-handicapped and disabled veterans should turn down any additional disability, etc they receive from the government just so they can "be like everyone else."

Pull your head outta your ass man.

Being TG is not a handicap, but it does hold its own set of complications. A non-gender bathroom is just that, call it unisex, call it what you need. How is it adding anything at additional cost more-so than if they would have called it a "Family Restroom" except for the fact that it's on an educational campus so they called it something different.

I will say it back to you, pull your head outta your ass man. I'm not implying to get rid of all of the accomidations for the handicap. READ THIS AGAIN, THIRD TIME NOW SO I MUST TYPE IN CAPS SO YOU CAN SEE IT BETTER: YOU DO NOT DESERVE A SPECIAL PRIVILAGE BECAUSE OF WHO YOU ARE AND IF YOU HAD ANY GUTS, YOU'D HAND THE PASS BACK TO YOUR SCHOOL AND SAY NO THANKS, NOT CALL IT A SUCCESS. I ALSO HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH A UNISEX BATHROOM, JUST THE SEGREGATION YOUR SCHOOLS USING IT FOR.

I will bet if you gave everyone the chance, they would all find a reason that they too deserve a special bathroom. Because you are who you are, me, I don't feel you deserve a special pass. Someone could say, some as stated in my posts before, I don't like peeing infront of others, I don't want people to here me changing my diapers in a stall, I don't want to smell what other people are doing, I don't want to be in there with tall people as I have a phobia of that, I don't want to _______ fill in the blank. Everyone has a reason so then what. Get off your high horse thinking this is something deserved(the pass, not the unisex bathroom), hand in your pass and just accept the fact you are different from everyone else, as we ALL are different from each other. Have your school make the bathroom available to ever and anyone.

Not every school and every business should have to or even should need to accomidate for every situation that arises. They're there to provide a pot to piss in, a hole to sh!t in. If you have a dick, use the mens, a vag, use the womens, sex change, use the appropriate, if you look like a girl and nobody knows you're a TG, is someone going to call the cops on you even if they do know you're a TG? Really? How embarrassing for them if they were wrong and it wasn't a TG they reported. They shouldn't have to make a bathroom for every hair color because someone has a phobia of people of different hair colors. Should your school get sued because they can't accomidate a 1,000lb man in the can? Should they have to make a bathroom for that person? Do you understand my analogies, though not the best I hope you get the point. It's a looks thing kind of too, like how would you like it if only hot chicks got there own pass for a unisex bathroom? Kinda the same thing in a sort of way, it's your looks. What if the normal mens bathroom has a line 40 long out the door, nope no one here can use the unisex as the line is full of just average joes to you, look here come Munchkitten, and strole right into his virtually private bathroom. That's fair huh.

Bathrooms:

Mens - Penis

Womens - Vagina

Unisex - Anyone(no special privilages)

TIME NUMBER FOUR: I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH UNISEX BATHROOMS, JUST THAT YOU GET A PASS TO USE IT LIKE YOUR OWN PRIVATE BATH BECAUSE OF WHO YOU ARE.

I also follow and like what Brutal has written and have a lot of the same questions.

[FretaBWet]

I'm not being a douche. I'm being practical. As for saying I should stay out of a subforum for being a douche, go ahead and tell me what is "douche" about stating that striving for equality is more important than achieving special accomodations.

You are not the only TG on campus, you are a self proported activist... what have you done to get them signs?

Maybe you're upset that people on the forum read your post and asked you some hard questions?

It's amusing that you equate special treatment with making an advancement. I'm sure that any handicapped person would gladly trade thier special priveldges to be able to walk again or have a fully functional body/mind/nervous system.

I don't disagree that there should be more unisex/family bathrooms. But the thought of closing down a public restroom so that you don't feel self conscious is kind of confusing.

Since I am not TG/CD whatever... enlighten me in a polite manner. Help me understand the plight. It is what activist do right?

Here is what really confuses me:

If you are dressing as a woman, living as a woman... what keeps you from using the men's bathroom? what keeps you from using the womens bathroom?

If it's that you are self conscious about being in a men's bathroom, why? Don't the guys already see you in the hall and in their classrooms and on campus? What difference would it make if they saw you in the bathroom? Are you afraid of verbal or physical abuse?

Is it that the womens bathrooms are cleaner and there isn't as much dried urine on the toilet seats?

Are you afraid of getting arrested if you use the female bathroom?

Enlighten me as to why you should have these special priveldges? If it is because you are self conscious, should people who wear diapers all be given special signs too? So that when they change in a stall nobody hears the tapes ripping or the person putting the football sized used adult diaper in the trash can?

I can understand handicap access because I was in a wheel chair for a few months. But no handicap person ever closed down the entire bathroom to use it. They usually have one stall and it has bars so that if you are in a chair you can actually get onto the toilet.

But explain to me why a TG would need special access?

What is the "PRACTICAL" reason for it?

For those of you in the TG community, instead of simply calling people a douche why not provide the actual insight?

I'll check back in a few days and hopefully one of you will have the ability to explain it in a rational way.

-Brutal

I guess it's time I stepped into this thread. I'm going to answer your questions because I don't think you were trying to be a douche and it's always been my policy to answer anyone's questions truthfully as long as they were asked to gain knowledge and understanding. The first thing you might try to understand is that this is a very difficult journey that Munchkitten has embarked on and in her shoes, you might be a tad bit defensive yourself.

To the question of why she should get special privileges there's two main reasons. Both reasons revolve around the difficulty of making the transition from a male to a female. Even if she were dressing as a woman full time she won't likely "pass" as a woman because she hasn't had the time necessary for hormone replacement therapy to redistribute her body fat to give her a more feminine shape and facial contours. If she isn't passable she will have issues in a women's rest room because she'll be taken as a male in a dress or a drag queen both of which most women find demeaning. He would most likely receive some form of harassment for using a mens room if he were presenting as a woman but obviously a man. Would a genetic woman be harassed for using the mens room? Not on your life. Using a single rest room at this point is preferable from the standpoint of the public.

The second reason is that in reality she is suffering from a disability. None of us asked to be transgendered any more than someone else asked for a club foot or cancer. It's simply the hand we were dealt at birth and we have to play it the best we can. The deck is stacked against us as it is right now. We are not protected from discrimination in jobs and housing like other disabilities. Our medical treatment isn't covered by most insurance plans because they list the treatment as "experimental" which is usually excluded from most policies. I'm not asking for sympathy here, I just want you to better understand the hardships that are faced by Munchkitten. The good news is that her disability is temporary. Once she is on hormone replacement therapy for a while and she becomes more comfortable with her female self she will want to start using the women's room. At that point it shouldn't be an issue with other women either because she will be perceived as a woman and belong there.

I hope this helps you to understand where she is coming from and where she is going. If you have any specific questions feel free to IM me.

Hugs,

Freta

[d_drew12]

Even if she were dressing as a woman full time she won't likely "pass" as a woman because she hasn't had the time necessary for hormone replacement therapy to redistribute her body fat to give her a more feminine shape and facial contours. If she isn't passable she will have issues in a women's rest room because she'll be taken as a male in a dress or a drag queen both of which most women find demeaning. He would most likely receive some form of harassment for using a mens room if he were presenting as a woman but obviously a man. Would a genetic woman be harassed for using the mens room? Not on your life. Using a single rest room at this point is preferable from the standpoint of the public.

The second reason is that in reality she is suffering from a disability. None of us asked to be transgendered any more than someone else asked for a club foot or cancer. It's simply the hand we were dealt at birth and we have to play it the best we can. The deck is stacked against us as it is right now. We are not protected from discrimination in jobs and housing like other disabilities. Our medical treatment isn't covered by most insurance plans because they list the treatment as "experimental" which is usually excluded from most policies. I'm not asking for sympathy here, I just want you to better understand the hardships that are faced by Munchkitten. The good news is that her disability is temporary. Once she is on hormone replacement therapy for a while and she becomes more comfortable with her female self she will want to start using the women's room. At that point it shouldn't be an issue with other women either because she will be perceived as a woman and belong there.

I too am not trying to be a douch but I'm sorry, I do not like the reasoning. Call me what you want but escentially, for the number one reason giving, it's over his feelings. Escentially you're saying he would be worried about "passing" as a female in a womens and being too womanly to use mens and someone saying something therefor he should get a pass to use a unisex bathroom to spare his feelings. I'm here to tell you the likelyhood of someone caring in the bathroom is slim to none. I've said before, there's men and women who look like the opposite sex without even trying and no one I know or heard of would say anything to these people depending on what bathroom they went into, maybe just a thought running through the mind of "was that a guy or girl?" but nothing verbalized. If you look like a guy in the public eye, use the mens, look like a women, use the womens, inbetween, I'd probably still use the mens until you pass for a girl. Now if you stand and pee in a womens toilet, that's different but I doubt you'd do that. How often do you use a public bathroom anyway and how often is someone even in there? If someone harrasses you, report it if you want. There are plenty of other people who get harrassed daily for who they are, nerds for example. I really don't think he should receive special treatment to spare his feelings, that's not everyone elses problem. Again, not trying to be a dick but nobody gives a rats as$ about how I feel when I walk into a bathroom whether I'm say subconcious of my size or how I look, what sounds I make, whatever it may be so how's a transgender any different. If we catered to everyones feelings where would we be in this world? I think like these diapers we all think everyone knows like it's so obvious but really, the majority of the world couldn't care less about my underware preferance. I disagree again with any TG getting a special pass to a bathroom for themselves.

The second reason, you say you are not protected from discrimination in jobs, well, that is false, you are protected. Anyone can claim harrassment for any reason they feel they were harrassed or discriminated against. If there were a tg at my work, we had one(retired), and anyone gave them hell, it could lead to termination. You couldn't just go up and say "hey what's up you sissy little tranny bitch" at darn near any job and get by with it. The whole housing thing doesn't make sense either. You're telling me if a tg goes to get a home they be denied because of who they are? Doubt it. As far as the disablitity as you call it not being covered under insurance, like wise, many other things aren't covered that would make people feel better about themselves. I deal with baldness and would like transplants or surgery but it's not covered. I girl has small breast, wants enhancement to feel normal, not covered. The list goes on so it's not just a tg that deals with image issues or feeling about how they look. I hate the fact that I'm balding so young and have dealt with it for years now and everyday but I just deal with what I have, card I'm dealt. All I know is you won't see me getting a special pass for a bathroom or getting discount at the barber because of my hair.

[PampersPete]

This thread sounds eerily similar to this one that I started...http://www.dailydiapers.com/board/index.php?showtopic=17365

[FretaBWet]

I too am not trying to be a douch but I'm sorry, I do not like the reasoning. Call me what you want but escentially, for the number one reason giving, it's over his feelings. Escentially you're saying he would be worried about "passing" as a female in a womens and being too womanly to use mens and someone saying something therefor he should get a pass to use a unisex bathroom to spare his feelings. I'm here to tell you the likelyhood of someone caring in the bathroom is slim to none. I've said before, there's men and women who look like the opposite sex without even trying and no one I know or heard of would say anything to these people depending on what bathroom they went into, maybe just a thought running through the mind of "was that a guy or girl?" but nothing verbalized. If you look like a guy in the public eye, use the mens, look like a women, use the womens, inbetween, I'd probably still use the mens until you pass for a girl. Now if you stand and pee in a womens toilet, that's different but I doubt you'd do that. How often do you use a public bathroom anyway and how often is someone even in there? If someone harrasses you, report it if you want. There are plenty of other people who get harrassed daily for who they are, nerds for example. I really don't think he should receive special treatment to spare his feelings, that's not everyone elses problem. Again, not trying to be a dick but nobody gives a rats as$ about how I feel when I walk into a bathroom whether I'm say subconcious of my size or how I look, what sounds I make, whatever it may be so how's a transgender any different. If we catered to everyones feelings where would we be in this world? I think like these diapers we all think everyone knows like it's so obvious but really, the majority of the world couldn't care less about my underware preferance. I disagree again with any TG getting a special pass to a bathroom for themselves.

The second reason, you say you are not protected from discrimination in jobs, well, that is false, you are protected. Anyone can claim harrassment for any reason they feel they were harrassed or discriminated against. If there were a tg at my work, we had one(retired), and anyone gave them hell, it could lead to termination. You couldn't just go up and say "hey what's up you sissy little tranny bitch" at darn near any job and get by with it. The whole housing thing doesn't make sense either. You're telling me if a tg goes to get a home they be denied because of who they are? Doubt it. As far as the disablitity as you call it not being covered under insurance, like wise, many other things aren't covered that would make people feel better about themselves. I deal with baldness and would like transplants or surgery but it's not covered. I girl has small breast, wants enhancement to feel normal, not covered. The list goes on so it's not just a tg that deals with image issues or feeling about how they look. I hate the fact that I'm balding so young and have dealt with it for years now and everyday but I just deal with what I have, card I'm dealt. All I know is you won't see me getting a special pass for a bathroom or getting discount at the barber because of my hair.

d_drew12, Your opinion is duly noted and I have no interest in trying to change it. I was just trying to answer a couple questions Brutal put out there and since you don't agree with what I posted there's nothing more for me to add. Have a nice day.

Hugs,

Freta