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Incontinence - Cause, Myths Vs Reality


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  • 3 months later...

POTS (posterior orthostatic tachycardia syndrome) and MS (multiple sclerosis) can both cause incontinence as well

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  • 2 months later...
  • 9 months later...
 

There is no L6.

WBDaddy,

one would presume that 'Steve in Diaps' is referring to four or five concurrent spinal vertabrae within the lumbar region of his spine, and maybe entering the first and/or second vertabrae within his sacral spine.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Damage to the nerves in the L-5 region can cause the whole range of incontinence issues, both urinary and/or fecal, up to a complete loss of sensation and control. It's the critical point in your spine for these issues because that's where the nerves controlling these functions emerge from the spinal cord and go to the organs.

Bettypooh

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There is nerve pathways that come from bladder / bowel to the brain via the spinal cord. Its motor control is directed by the brain via motor nerve pathways within the same spinal cord. As a result, partial damage to any portion of the spinal cord can either damage the sensation and/or the motor drive. Whether one can 'feel' the need to void or not is determined on the nerve pathways being intact. There is a 'bypass' system (as newborns, we used same) that will be invoked if the brain does not invoke control.

As a result, damage to any single and/or multiple spinal regions will most likely will cause incontinence.

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  • 2 weeks later...

stevewet,

diabetes - ie the high levels of sugars and associated glucose (blood sugars) can damage both the shielding (myelin - similar in function to ther rubber/plastic on an electric cable) of the axon (the actual wire that passes the information) and the telodentric zone (similar to a plug & socket) to connect one short neuron to another in the path back to the brain. Since the telodentric zone is not a direct connection, it depends on a fluid to pass the information across. High levels of fats (triglycerides) can damage both the synapses (transmitters) and the dendrites (recievers) in this connections. 

As a result, you are correct that diabetes can cause incontinence - but it is not incurable. Rebalancing the sugar levels and, in time, the myelin can self repair as can the synapses and dendrites, however, one has to relearn control. Most problems within the body are curable, however since the body is expert at conserving energy, the side effect of the problem can create a large collection of seemingly unrelated issues.

 

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On 04/04/2018 at 4:52 PM, babykeiff said:

stevewet,

diabetes - ie the high levels of sugars and associated glucose (blood sugars) can damage both the shielding (myelin - similar in function to ther rubber/plastic on an electric cable) of the axon (the actual wire that passes the information) and the telodentric zone (similar to a plug & socket) to connect one short neuron to another in the path back to the brain. Since the telodentric zone is not a direct connection, it depends on a fluid to pass the information across. High levels of fats (triglycerides) can damage both the synapses (transmitters) and the dendrites (recievers) in this connections. 

As a result, you are correct that diabetes can cause incontinence - but it is not incurable. Rebalancing the sugar levels and, in time, the myelin can self repair as can the synapses and dendrites, however, one has to relearn control. Most problems within the body are curable, however since the body is expert at conserving energy, the side effect of the problem can create a large collection of seemingly unrelated issues.

 

I try and keep my sugars in check at all times as I don't want any other problems with either most importantly my eyes or my feet. My Mother was diabetic and she lost most of her sight her legs had to be amputated and like me she was incontinent. I have seen a urologist several times and discussed it with my own doctor following several appointments and a diagnosis from our local urology clinic. He told me at the present there is no cure for my incontinence and refered me to the continence clinic for practical help in managing my problem. I asked the diabetic nurse last time I saw her if my incontinene would get better as my diabetes is well controlled now and she said nerve damage is permanent. I am seeing my Doctor tomorrow so I will mention this again,. 

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  • 1 month later...

With diabetes, incontinence is a symptom, not the root problem. As a result, without treating the core problem, its sumptoms are incurable. However, diabetes - bodies failure to manage sugar balance - is only treatable, not curable. As a result, its corresponding symptoms can only be managed and not cured.

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medbuy145

Bed wetting is medically referred to as 'Secondary Nocturnal Enuresis' . This is because bed wetting / night time wetting is addressed / treated after the person has become trained first. Nocturnal Enuresis is part toilet trained OR toilet trained during the day. This is the state of the average 1 - 3 year old that is beginning toilet training. Their parent etc would normally diaper that child at night until the child is toilet trained during the day. At that stage, that child would normally wear pull-ups / bedwetter pants until they become dry at night.

Secondary Nocturnal Enuresis / Bed wetting after successful toilet training usually occurs 8-10 (female) and 10-14 (male). This is the average time of puberty when bladder control overnight might be an issue due to changes within the body.

Stress-, Urge-, Overflow- incontinence, as you described is a medical textbook description. Incontinence, by definition, is the voiding of bladder and / or  bowels (not in a toilet etc) caused by lack of nerve and/or muscle control. All three occur at the same time.

A - When the bladder fills, the nerves are supposed to signal the brain of the occurance. Nerve problems will prevent this. As a result the bladder will overfill and force the sphincter open. Once this happens, the bladder will partially empty with force until enough urine is out of the bladder to reduce the pressure to normal. The bladder will continue to fill, and urine will drop out as quick as the bladder fills. If one stands up / laughs, extra pressure is placed on the bladder and more urine will escape. Stress will contract the bladder slightly, and  therefore, the bladder may be able to hold 75ml until the senario I have described occurs. This is STRESS, OVERFLOW, and URGE incontinence.

B- Lets look at a different scenario, there is muscle damage on the sphincter. It might never open. As a result, one has to cath themselves rather than burst ones bladder.

There are as varied types of incontinence as there are people that are incontinent. A few people are incontinent from birth (nerve and/or muscle development issue), but most, are due to an accident - fall / car crash etc.

A person with a physical difference may not be able to reach a bathroom. That just identifies that they choose to wear protection. Some wheelchair dependent individuals choose to wear diapers. That does in no way specify that they are incontinent.

A person with a learning difference may not be aware of what a toilet is and how to use same. An infant / baby / toddler etc is this type of person. A person with altztimers etc could also have forgot their toilet training. They are NOT incontinent. They are just not toilet trained.

Incontinence is a symptom, not the root problem, and therefore, can only be managed, not directly treated. eg, a person who's right arm was amputated, cannot write with a pen with their right hand... does a doctor give that person a pen, and then try and teach them the basics of writing with the right hand? The sympton of not being able to write with a pen with the right hand is a symptom of not having a right arm... and the hand, not not having a pen.

Within the 'Incontinent-Desires' part of this forum, there are people that wish to be incontinent. To put it simply, without medical intervention and/or an accident that effects muscle and/or nerves, they will never become incontinent. However, the can become diaper-dependent similar to an infant/baby/toddler, where they void without being informed before the event, and need to wear diapers to keep from wetting / soiling their clothes / bed etc. The simple fact is that their mind will always be informed, and it is their mind that makes the call to void without informing them.

An incontinent person voids without the ability to stop / control this. It doesn't matter what that person wishes, they will still void. Some incontinent people KNOW when they need to void / are voiding but are powerless to stop it. This infuration will eventually stop as their mind will stop informing them.

 

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  • 5 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

A large amount of people here have, due to one reason or another, bowel incontinence and are having difficulties dealing with this.

With bowel incontinence, one maybe aware of their need to void, but unable to prevent the inevitable. From a medical perspective, we are taught that to soil diapers is an accident and that a routine will allow us to void in a toilet. This is simply not true. The human body voids on average 30%-60% of what we eat, and usually on a daily basis. The average speed of ones digestive system is 4-5 hours. This means, on average, one will place into their bowels 30%-60% of the quantity one consumed 4-5 hours ago. For people who have bowel control, they are capable of storing same and voiding once / twice a day depending on what they consume.

For my fellow bowel incontinent, ones bowels void either when full - via reflex OR every few hours / days. That means that all the 'bowel management' tools are doing is to no gain.

 

Management Method Effect / Side Effect
Enema Rinse anus / bowel with warm / soapy water High percentage of liver damage / blood poisining by direct introduction of water bound bacteria into the bowel. Does not get to the higer bowel, lower intestine. Water pressure can stretch/damage bowel wall. As a result, diapers no longer have the capacity needed. Also, some bowel does not clot and can result in large loss of blood and/or fatal blood poisining.
Laxitive Oral and /or anal insertion of tablet / liquid Voids not only bowel contents, but acidic partially digested foods not yet fully absorbed by lower intestine. Caustic damage to external sphincter which results in weeping liquid stool until sphincter repairs self. Can cause severe pain and 'yeast based' diaper rash
Manual / Electronic Stimulation A form of massage 'to loosen bowels' / moving legs 'to initiate bowel movement' Bowels, without supression intervention, would empty constantly. A newborn does not have that supression intervention. As a result, voids bowels as their body digests food - ie the bowels pulse in time with the perastatic action of the intestine. When the child reaches 6mths, they automatically initate this supression intervention. To void, we stop this supression and then contract the bowels. For the incontinent, both actions can be inturrupted - ie unable to stop the supression and unable to contract the bowels. As a result, stimulation does NOT release ones bowels and constipation occurs as more material is placed into the bowels without release. This causes back pressure on the digestive system and the reflex action of voiding to occur with the assocated problems
Kegel Excercise to strengthen pelvic floor muscles. For most, kegel is not required. If these muscles are not being used, they are dead. If they are being used, they either help or hinder your continence. 'Arnold Schwarzenegger' type pelvic floor muscles does not equal continence and can cause pelvic fractures.
Force Straining to 'push' This causes huge pressure on the digestive system and in most cases will not inititate voiding. It also causes strain on the heart. It was extreme constipation and straining that caused Elvis to die of a heart-attack while sitting on a toilet.

Since there is really no real repair and/or management to bowel incontinence, one will end up in a messy diaper. So, if we are destined to end up in a messy diaper, let us manage that. This is done by managing ones digestive system and allowing same to void at it's schedule, not ours.

Any product that reduces / eliminates the smell has the side effect of constipation. As a result, one has to increase ones digestive speed = more water (more changes of wet diapers) and cod liver oil. I prefer the capsule form as I do not have to taste it. I use charcoal tablets to eliminate the smell.  This regime takes time for the body to adjust, normally 2-3 days. As a result, you should mess your diaper once or twice a day. This will be different to the messing that others here have described. The messing will not be whole body spasm and/or physically exausting, nor as toxic in smell and/or caustic to ones skin. The cod liver oil means this will slide out pass a relaxed anal sphincter. The activated charcoal captures the bacteria that causes the smell.

To me, I have been taking both for years, and I mess my diapers once or more a day, and the occasional night. I used to encounter the whole body spasm as semi-hard stool from an overfull bowels tried to push out via the same reflex action that a baby endures and due to my nerve / muscle damage, being unable to do anything but grab onto a rail (similar to a toddler in a crib filling its diaper) to keep myself from falling as wave after wave of pressure pushed to empty my bowels, and then collapse from the internal energy excertion. This is the bowels pulsing in time to the perastatic action of the lower intestine.

My bowel incontinence is that my anal sphincters are weak. As a result, I can mess at anytime. Sometimes I feel a mess coming (loads of key indicators - temperature rise, some indigestion, internal movement) and sometimes I do not. When this happens, it is inevitable that I will end up with a messy diaper. Whether this happens where I am and I continue doing what I am doing, or halfway to a bathroom / in a bathroom with my pants down after nearly killing everyone to rush there, and then realise that I do not have a change with me - it is in the office / car etc and I have to go back out of the bathroom to get the change to go back to the bathroom to change. It is not woth the stress.

In life, either you control your destiny or others do. Since I have no choice but to mess my diapers, I mess my diapers on my terms. I could stress about it - but for what gain. There is little to no smell. There WILL be a diaper change. My freinds accept me as me. The only thing that I will change is my diapers. The only people that have a problem are the naive fools who think that this 'wetting & messing diapers' is some form of failure - ie I didn't graduate from 'toddler'!! OR a doctor can fix everything!!!

PS I take 520mg Activated Charcoal ( 2 x 260mg tablets ) & 2000mg Cod Liver Oil ( 2 x 1000mg ) capsules on a daily basis. This dosage works for me. Your dose may be different. (I do not work for H&B. They are the fastest link I could find)

Hope the above helps

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  • 4 months later...

* PARTIALY COMPLETED - When completed, I will move this to another thread 'Myths and Lies we still believe today'

 

I created this tread to dispell myths. Is seems to me from comments here, and from the ABDL fantasy stories, that there are many other myths and lies that we now believe that have its origins in the lies told to us / our parents / grandparents by adverts etc....

1. Baby Powder placed inside a diaper keeps the baby dry for longer.

FALSE: Baby powder inside the diaper absorbs wetness, clumps together, sticks to the skin and prevents the diaper from doing its job - to keep the wetness from the skin. The wet clumps of powder causes rash where it is stuck to the skin. It was J&J that suggested that baby powder be used in the diaper at each diaper change (to increase the sale of same to gulible consumers).

2. Baby Powder keeps your baby smelling baby fresh all day.

FALSE: J&J added the scent to normal corn-starch to create the 'baby' fresh smell stating that a baby will always smell fresh with J&J powder. Fresh urine does not smell. A baby on breast milk does not have the bacteria to create the 'sour smell' in its poop. As a result, a baby (of the era of baby powder) does NOT emit a smell.

3. Disposable diapers as opposed to cloth diapers prevent diaper rash.

FALSE: Diaper rash, more correctly named 'dermatitis' is a global name for a host of different skin infections, where each has a cause. A babies skin is more resiliant to these type of infections than an adults skin. Natural cloth tend to be less agressive on the skin than the disposable alternative, and that is due to the weave on the cloth. Disposable diapers top sheet is a form of plastic which is strong, but sharp.  This causes friction rashes. Also, a disposable diaper takes time to distribute wetness into its padding / S.A.P., and simple physics stops the wetness moving. Liquid will move form high concentration to low concentration areas as long as there is enough of a difference for it to move. In a disposable, this process stops and creates areas of wet clumps. In cloth, since each fibre is absorbant but also elastic, fluid can be absorbed into the fibre bundle and then some pressed out by the elasticicy into the fibre bundle next to it. As a result, cloth gets evenly wet. Therefore, cloth diapers are less prone source of friction rash, and due to its ability to evenly absorb, less prone to chemical rash - the type of rash caused by the reaction of +/- PH difference - ie acidic urine on alkaline skin will cause a chemical burn. What has been found about disposable diapers is that the SAP can react to urine and exagerate the rash.

Faeces are more likely to be a source of rash, usually due to the liquid in the poop.   

 

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  • 2 years later...
  • 8 months later...

F.Y.I.

A baby from birth to approx 4-6 months old is fed almost exclusively, a liquid diet. As a result, a babies bowel control is next to non-existant. Anyone, post toilet trained, if exclusively on a liquid diet, would have the same bowel control as a birth to 4-6 month old baby. Post this, the baby is gradually weaned onto solid food. The baby adapts to the more solid poop by 'pushing' to fill its diapers following the teaching of its parents / careers. Some parents teach their children to void via the elimination communication methodology. 

When one looks at bladder control, a baby is voiding since birth either via reflex OR via relaxed sphincters.

When the baby gets to toilet training age, the first skill the child learns is not to poop in its diapers. This is done by telling the child that it has to poop in a potty and that pooping in pants is not accepted. Considering that bowel control already exists since the child was approx 4-6 months old, the change from pooping in diapers to pooping in potty does not require learning new signals and responding to same. Accidents do occur, but only when the child is more focused on something else (like a toy / tv program etc) and forgets that it is supposed to poop in a potty not its pants. Some babies will only poop in a diaper, and will cry for one when the need arises. This is due to the child being used to the status quo, and does not understand why the change in what the child is used to.

Bladder control needs a lot more concentration and focus to learn to react to the signals from the bladder. This is why a child toilet training will have a lot of wetting accidents before finally making it to a potty to wee.

Considering the above -

  • a baby has been taught to poop to sate urges
  • a baby wets almost without thinking.
  • bowel control exists, but pooping in pants is to suit anothers wishes.
  • bladder control takes a lot of focus.

As a result, certain conclusions will occur if one wears diapers due to weak / poor bladder control -

  • the fact one is wearing a diaper 24/7, it doesn't take long for the mind to realize that one can poop in said diaper and clean up later.
  • the rational of not pooping in a diaper - the reason one was toilet traind, becomes moot.
  • wearing a diaper tend to relax the anal sphincter so when one breaks wind, one can easily let poop slide out.
  • if one, due to medical need, changes to a mainly liquid diet, bowel control simply vanishes.

There are a lot of people on this site who have / are on the slope to poor bowel control due to medication and/or diet. If you chose to change your diet to a more solid food, bowel control should return - that is if the control was there in the first place AND your subcontious mind has not been convinced to use diapers instead of a potty.

This brings me to the concept of habit - where trained behaviour becomes autonomic. By the time a baby gets to 4-6 month old where its poop becomes solid, and since it has been pooping as it is consuming food, (babies due to liquid diet, poop during their feeds) from birth, the baby accepts that it is supposed to poop in diapers. By the time the baby is 2 year old, this habit has become autonomic - where the baby will hunker and push every time it feels the need to poop. Also, since it has been wetting without thinking 24/7, for the past 2 years, this habit has become autonomic.

The above, autonomic behaviour, explains why, when one traines themselves to wet a diaper 24/7 either via hypnosis or by reversing their toilet training, the logic (the way the subcontious makes decisions) of not messsing in their diaper becomes moot. Add to this that people will fart at times, the determination of whether poop did slip out during the fart is difficult to check without deeper checking. - i.e. in underwear, one can get instant feedback of any messy slip up, but in a diaper, certain key information is hidden. Add to this, that the subcontious is constantly analysing each decision (and optimising same) the reason not to poop in the diaper - 'it has to poop in a potty and that pooping in pants is not accepted' the teaching envoked during toilet training - where the primary focus was learnign bladder control that is currently non existant since you are wearing diapers, the subcontious ignores the training and reverts to pooping to sate need as and when it feels i.e. during and/or shortly after meals.

I have said this before, and been contradicted, if one reverts to using a diaper to wet, the bladder shrinks AND, shortly after, one will revert to messing said diaper whether they wnat to or not. 

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  • 11 months later...
On 5/30/2018 at 12:40 PM, babykeiff said:

With diabetes, incontinence is a symptom, not the root problem. As a result, without treating the core problem, its sumptoms are incurable. However, diabetes - bodies failure to manage sugar balance - is only treatable, not curable. As a result, its corresponding symptoms can only be managed and not cured.

At 12.40, 30th May 2018, there was no published medical cure in the western world for diabetes. The source of my information was incorrect, and there is a cure, but it contradicts a lot of food saftey thinking. As a result, medical science has still to accept it.

The cure involves reducing/removing the fat within the kidneys, one of the primary reason for the bodies mistake in recognising its own sugar balance. Chinese medicine has been handling this for centuries while western medicine have been dealing with symptoms. The core reason for the delay in change in western world medicine is the almost guarenteed loss of profit to be indured by large pharma.

The solution recognised by Chinese medicine is the introduction of White Mulberry Leaf to the diet in small quantites. i.e. 1-2 cups per week/month. This has been dismissed by western medicine by publication of a single incident in where a person overdosed on White Mulberry Leaf Tea. Considering the percentage of people worldwide that overdose on medication, it seems strange that the one W.M.L.T. overdose should get such media traction. In my humble opinion, it is more likely that western world large pharmacutical companies are trying to discourage the use of W.M.L.T. due to their projected loss on diabetical treatment medication.

Where it concerns the food industry is that the food industry is responsible for the continued dosing of food with artifical sugars and sweetners - both are severely damaging to the kidneys - and denying that this food is harmful. After all, if they admit it, most fast food chains and food processing plants would need to close.

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  • 3 months later...

It seems that many of us would like a "quick fix" to many of our problems. Looks like the use of diabetic drugs to cause weight loss in non-diabetics is coming to a close OTC. Each of the contributors on this forum seem to understand how difficult it is to identify a single cause for our IC. However, it also seems that lots of creativity has made the IC issue manageable, so that we can get on with our lives (diaper bag in hand).

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