Un-potty Training Vs Incontinence

[whoops]

Greetings all (from a long-time lurker)

Now that this particular forum is here, and I've been thinking about what it's all about, I need to ask:

What is the difference between voluntary incontinence and completely losing potty-training?

I ask because I've been attempting to design a hypno tape for myself and keep running into the difference between "I can't hold it" and "I don't want to hold it"

Without being a mind reader, and not remembering my own experiences from that time, I have no way of knowing what a 2 1/2 year old thinks when he wets, or if he thinks about it at all: all I know about is the end product -- a wet diaper.

Given that the end goal for my tape is the wet diaper, I kind of need to know. Unfortunately, since I'm a bit of a logic bug, I keep seeing inconsistencies in what I'm writing and I can't even think about trying to internalize it in that state.

My only point of reference was a time I pooped my pants when I was four-ish -- I remember thinking there was a monster in the bathroom that was so evil I wanted to go home, but didn't make it. That was a case of "I can't stop it", but was also after (supposedly) I was potty trained. I want to go further back than that, to somewhere between "I did something in my diaper?" and "You mean I'm not supposed to do that in my diaper?"

Thoughts appreciated.

-whoops

[Codymoogle]

Incontinence is when you have no realization of going until during or after the fact (or for urge incontinence, knowing you need to at the very last minute, but by then it's too late).

Losing potty training is breaking yourself from the potty - most chronological two year olds know when they have to go, they just don't know WHERE they're expected to go, and so they go in their diapers. They can't hold it for long either since the bladder is still pretty small at that age.

Hope that helps.

~ moogle

[enfant]

Welcome aboard, whoops. That's a rather fascinating question.

Seems to me you left out "oops, I forgot to hold it" as an option.

My own experiences with wetting accidents have mostly happened when I was asleep, so I don't remember them. Some of them have happened in dreams, so I don't know if they're accurate representations of what it's really like in real life.

I do remember being a baby and not being potty trained yet, but I don't remember what it felt like to wet or mess, or what I thought about--just that I'd realize at some point my pants were wet or dirty.

I've had two real daytime pants-wetting accidents that I can vividly remember, and both of them were variations of the "oops!" variety mentioned above; I could have held it, but forgot for a moment:

1) One night I was walking home from the bus stop, and since it was quite a dark night and no one would be at home, I decided it would be fun to wet my pants on the way. (I wasn't wearing diapers.) I did so, and liked the experience. The night after, walking home from the bus stop again under similar circumstances, I was having a little reverie about the previous night's experience and idly thinking maybe I should wet my pants again, when I suddenly realized I was already peeing. Ohmygod! I said, and stopped myself in a panic, and then felt pretty silly and went ahead and finished.

2) Another game I've occasionally played is to pee just a tiny amount into my pants (again without diapers)--a few drops, not enough to be noticeable, but enough to make me feel naughty. One evening, six or seven years ago, I was in my office working after hours, very absorbed in what I was doing. Noticing I needed to pee, I decided to play my little game, and I deliberately wet a little dime-sized spot on the front of my pants. I glanced down to make sure everything was fine, then went back to my work. Some time later, I glanced down again and was astonished to discover my pants were soaked--the whole crotch and butt, I was sitting in a puddle.

The common thread is that in both cases I had deliberately given myself prior permission to open up the bladder, and then for some reason my brain decided to open it up again without conscious consideration, having decided that it was safe and appropriate to do so and there was no need to hold back. Normally, "holding it" is the default and you have to think about letting go, but for a toddler (and on those few occasions described above, for me), it's the other way around: you can hold it, if you think about it, but if you're distracted you forget, and then oops--wet pants.

Dunno if that's any help to you.

[pctrasher]

I'm pretty sure that at the age of 2 or so, you have control and feeling if you were to think about it, but not very much. The thing is, they have only known to wet in their diaper and so THAT is what their main reaction is going to be when they feel that they have to wet. And that's without any thought, it's almost like an itch that you ignore; you feel it and then soon forget about it. Only with a full bladder, you end up with wet pants if you ignore it.

But to the technical part of they hypnotism, it also depends on the structure of the mentality of the 'clients'. If the person doesn't consiously think about EVERYTHING they do or sense, it would be easier for them to learn to forget to hold it. But if the person is very consious and thinks about everything they do or sense, then it will be harder for them to get to the idea of forgetting to hold it in.

I think the best way to go about this is to tell them that their response to a full bladder should be immediate voiding. Since that's kind of how our bladder works now. If we have to go, we automatically send a sigal from the brain to the sphincter to hold in the urin until told otherwise. All that you need to do is rewrite that 'hold' response to 'release' response. So when the bladder gets full, the brain instantly tells the bladder to release the urin. And hence, the 'oops I forgot to hold it' incontinents.

[Creepymouse]

Another important thing to remember is that positive, present tense statements work best. Example...

You may feel the desire, but you can't think of a blue door.

Didn't work, did it? The mind has trouble visualizing a negative, without visualizing the positive first. A suggestion to 'not get fat' could cause weight gain, in an extreme situation.

"If you feel any fullness, you immediately void" would be better than "If you feel any fullness, you will immediately void" I think, the simpler and clearer, the better.

[SoCalAB]

Hi Whoops

Sounds like to me that you pretty much want to decide for yourself if you want to go for the urge/desperation experience or wetting and or messing naturally like a baby.

I have a nice paper on wetting and messing naturally if you wish to email me at socalab@verizon.net

Stay Pampered

SoCalAB

Greetings all (from a long-time lurker)

Now that this particular forum is here, and I've been thinking about what it's all about, I need to ask:

What is the difference between voluntary incontinence and completely losing potty-training?

I ask because I've been attempting to design a hypno tape for myself and keep running into the difference between "I can't hold it" and "I don't want to hold it"

Without being a mind reader, and not remembering my own experiences from that time, I have no way of knowing what a 2 1/2 year old thinks when he wets, or if he thinks about it at all: all I know about is the end product -- a wet diaper.

Given that the end goal for my tape is the wet diaper, I kind of need to know. Unfortunately, since I'm a bit of a logic bug, I keep seeing inconsistencies in what I'm writing and I can't even think about trying to internalize it in that state.

My only point of reference was a time I pooped my pants when I was four-ish -- I remember thinking there was a monster in the bathroom that was so evil I wanted to go home, but didn't make it. That was a case of "I can't stop it", but was also after (supposedly) I was potty trained. I want to go further back than that, to somewhere between "I did something in my diaper?" and "You mean I'm not supposed to do that in my diaper?"

Thoughts appreciated.

-whoops